Hi Steam Thanks very much for your input. I am very grateful to you. Its unbelievable that we achieved so much in such a short space of time. I feel quite elated you have answered all my questions. Its also clear his Solicitors were just trying to blind me with science and scare me off. Thank you also to Ganeymede and Fletch. I will start the process and will keep you abreast. BF

Hi Thanks Steam thats really really helpful. Regarding indemnity - I found CPR 25.13 and went through it. I do not fall into any of the categories listed therein, other than 25.13 © which states: "...© the claimant is a company or other body (whether incorporated inside or outside Great Britain) and there is reason to believe that it will be unable to pay the defendant’s costs if ordered to do so; ..." If they have a reason to think that i will not be able to pay the defendants costs, they would need to substantiate that. Their costs would also need to be reasonable. Thanks for your help. BF

Hi Thank you Steam and Ganymede. Regarding legal aid - I mention this as I am on DLA and ESA. I cannot afford a solicitor so I will check out the link Steam sent and see if I can get anywhere with it but I have accepted the fact that I am going to have to bite the bullet and will have to see it through on my own. Steam - you said "...the six year time limit only began to run from the date of the Claimant's demand, even if that demand was only made several years later. There is case law to support this kind of reasoning..." Will you please send me a link to this case law as that will be really, really useful. If not then how can I check this - pl give me any clues. Regarding Indemnity... in the past, I have won a couple of cases where I represented myself and the loser always pay all the costs. So i am confused by your comments Steam. The value of the claim is over 10K I am afraid. Many thanks BF

Hi Renegade and Fletch, The payments of 2005/2006 were not one off ad-hoc payments as i was making regular monthly payments. Therefore, they were all part of the same "loan". I hope this makes it clearer. Thanks BF

Hi Renegade Thanks. That is actually a very useful piece of info. He did acknowledge a few of the payments I made back in 2005 and 2006 in December 2012. warm regards BF

Hi I have been seeking advice for my situation because I have no choice but to serve a writ to try and recover a loan I made to a friend. I did contact my local CAB but they were really not helpful. I did not think there may be any listings on CAG for issues like mine, so I was so glad I searched through CAG. I found the thread http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?356814-The-Process-of-Litigation..-Court-Claims-Defences by Andyorch very helpful and am grateful for this. I have been quite ill over the past few years and thankfully now recovering and getting my life together. when I was healthy and well off, I helped a desperate friend repay his credit cards over the period 2005 to 2008. What a mistake. ! whilst i have been really ill and desperate over the last few years the guy was no where to be found. I do not have a signed agreement, but i do have substantial paperwork to prove the loan and a documented admittance from him that I made the payments on his behalf. I have more than enough paperwork to prove the loan and that none has been repaid. After many, many phone calls and getting no where I finally wrote to him a couple of months ago and asked for my money back. To my surprise I received a 'Without Prejudice' letter from his solicitors basically stating that a. some parts of the loan is too old and therefore no longer applicable b. if it goes to court they will defend c. they will ask the court for indemnity from me for their fees. I did not take the comments from his solicitors too seriously other than just a threat to put me off. How ever it was clear that i have to sue. Some parts of the loan is old as the initial payment dates back to 2005 - however, they are part of the same loan spanning over three years and that can be proven quite categorically. My first question is on the subject of pre-action protocol; I asked for my money back and his solicitors pretty much told me to get lost. So what more can I do? As its a Without prejudice letter, I cannot include this in my documents, but I can summarise their comments as I have done above. My second question is can they apply to the court for an indemnity from me? I guess my credit history is not great but I am not a registered bankrupt. However, I am on ESA and I understand that as a result, I am exempt from having to pay the court fees. I understand from the county court that I have to prove I am on ESA when I serve my writ and the court will waiver the fees. My third question is how do I go about trying to get legal aid. I cannot afford a solicitor. I asked this to CAB and I am sorry to say but they said they cannot help. The amount of loan is quite substantial as its over 5K. Will some one help please? Thank you Burmafriday.

Hi thanks for your messages i try to ignore them but they still phone - and its not until they ask for my daughter by her name that i can tell who'son the line. I told them that my daughter is no longer living with me, i do not have her forwarding address and contact details and we did not part on good terms.... which is true. But, she's still my daughter and i love her and i am not going to sit around and ignore this. - What is the best approach to make to ICO? i went thru the website - i am not receiving sales calls. I see they say that if you told them not to contact you and they are still doing so i could report it. I guess thats all i can do. i will report back to you. In answer to labrat's question I too have been on their website ( http://www.orielcollections.co.uk/Collections/ ) - but there is no mention of license. All the best/BF

Hi - all, after being silent for over a year, this thing has now re-appeared. Oriel has been phoning twice a week in the evenings since January. They were all automated calls, and i always hang up. Then last week i received a call from a person. She asked for my daughter by name as if she were my daughter's close friend and i said that she was not in and asked who it was. when she told me she was from Oriel, i told her to stop phoning here as my daughter a. was not here b. does not owe them any money c. has returned any and all pictures taken by Studio London she said she cannot discuss anything due to data protection but asked if i would give her my daughters mobile number. I said no. I then said i hv written to them telling them and i know the story very well. I told her to leave her my daughter a lone and that my daughter owes them nothing. She said she cant discuss it with me. I fine. she asked for my daughters contact details again, and i said I was not going to give it to her. Then i received another call in the middle of the week by a guy. same thing happened. But he did say one thing more. he said that they were not going to leave it. They are trying to speak with my daughter so that something could be done. I said there is nothing to be done as my daughter had returned the photos etc. he said that is not how they see it from their side. Again the conversation ended as before with him asking for daughters contact details and i saying i was not going to give them. Then this morning a woman phoned from Oriel, identified herself that she was from Oriel and gave her name as[edit] (I am not sure about the surname) and asked for my daughter by her first name. I said that my daughter was not in. She asked if i could give her my daughters contact details - i said no. Then she hung up Apologies for the boring description but i think it important that you appreciate the sequence of events as they happened. Heres the thing - i actually do not have my daughters contact details at the moment. My daughter has gone abroad as she could not find work here. I guess she'll contact me when she can. Incredibly, she left last week!! hows that for timing. I think there are two options : 1. leave it and wait and see if they write to my daughter 2. write to them and tell them my daughter had gone abroad to seek work and that i genuinely do not have her contact details. i don't want them taking action against my daughter whilst she is away. Any suggestions? I must admit I feel i may have made the whole thing worst by opening my big mouth. Thanks/BF

HI Seanamarts Sure, i'll keep you fully posted. thanks/BF

Hi Seanamarts and DX Thanks for your fast response. gosh - you guys are definitely on the ball! I think it would be a good idea to contact OFT - seeing as they are in liquidation and now trading again with a very simliar name, from the same premises, and same style etc. if they have the same set of directors, then I think it may be possible that we can impress the OFT to take some action against the new outfit. I think i will write to the OFT, DTI and DCA as you suggested and try and finish this. thanks again. All the best/BF

Hi Happy New Year, dx and Seanamarts. thanks for yr msg. dx. sorry i took a few days off. We recevied yet another letter, this time addressed to my daughter. it says that we have failed to give a valid reason for not paying the outstanding balance and gave a number to contact them. but it added that if we fail to contact them within 14 days they will pass our account to their doorstep collection partner which will involve a visit to our address. i saw (in another thread in CAG) a template letter regarding doorstep callers "...should it be your intention to make another “doorstep call”, please be advised that under OFT rules, you can only visit me at my home if you make an appointment and I have no wish to make such an appointment with you. ..." may be I should send them a letter like this. What do you think? thanks/BF

Hi All, i hope you had a great Christmas. I had another letter today from the DCA. Basically it says: Notice of Debt recovery Outstanding balance : Dear Sir/madam You should be aware that your account is now with the Debt recovery department. We have confirmed your residency at the above address, yet have still received no response to previous reminders. Our Client has advised that this balance has been outstanding for a considerable length of time , therefore needs to be dealt with as a matter of urgency. please contact us on.... thats it. Its just a reminder. i am ignoring it. Would you all agree that they are not going to do anything significant and i should just keep ignoring the letters? I think if they were going to do anything, they would have done it by now. I like to wish you all a very Happy New Year and thank you all again for all your help and support. All the best. BF

Hi All, Well i had another call from the DCA today but i did not speak with them as i had written to them as suggested by Seanamarts. May be they did not receive my letter.... Are there any comments or views on the letters i posted - anything would be welcome. I am just sitting tight. Will advise if i hear any thing more. Merry Christmas to all and thank you very much for all the support. All the best/BF

Hi Seanamarts i sent the ltter to the DCA regarding the phone harrassment. thanks very much all the best. B/F

hi every one my sincere apologies for taking so long to post these dox. Blame it on my stupididty - its quicker and very precise! I went out and bought a new all in one unit and then Scan/rub out and Scan again to post. so there u go. thanks/BF

HI here are 4 more docs. thanks very much for all your help and support. BF B20001.pdf B30001.pdf B40001.pdf B10001.pdf

Hi DX, Hi Seanamarts, here are the first 5 docs./sorry for the delay and messing you around. Regards BF a10001.pdf A20001.pdf A30001.pdf A40001.pdf A50001.pdf

HI DX i am so sorry - i was having problem doing them as pdf. I will re-do them. thanks/BF

Hi Seanamarts, Hi DX sorry for the delay in posting the letters but finally - here they are. It occurred to me whilst posting these letters from DCA that they are all pretty standard. one of two of their letters do not even include the our names. its been ongoing since 2008 and they hv basically been writing once a month - and gave a 14 day notice a couple of times. i wrote to them a couple of times, denying the agreement and debt. Anyway, in case we forget, the Studio London, the client of DCA is actually in Liquidation. i do not know if they have been liquidated as yet. I have asked companies house to confirm but i have not received their reply for some reason and will chase it up tmrw. Again, pl forgive my delay in posting these letters. Lets just say i had difficulty with my scanner. Many thanks again for all your help so far. all the best, BF

Hi Seanamarts, Hi DX sorry for the delay in posting the letters but finally - here they are. It occurred to me whilst posting these letters from DCA that they are all pretty standard. one of two of their letters do not even include the our names. its been ongoing since 2008 and they hv basically been writing once a month - and gave a 14 day notice a couple of times. i wrote to them a couple of times, denying the agreement and debt. Anyway, in case we forget, the Studio London, the client of DCA is actually in Liquidation. i do not know if they have been liquidated as yet. I have asked companies house to confirm but i have not received their reply for some reason and will chase it up tmrw. BTW - i can only attac 5 dox per post. So if these are not enough i will attach some more in a new post. Again, pl forgive my delay in posting these letters. Lets just say i had difficulty with my scanner. Many thanks again for all your help so far. all the best, BF

HI Thanks Seanamarts, thanks DX - will send letter and advise if any reply will take out names etc and scan and post the dox in pdf format i'll do it tonight when i have more time thanks very much all the best BF

Hi DX thanks for resplying so fast. Its really good of you. thats exactly what i shall do thanks so much. all the best/BF

HI All, thanks so much for all your support. sorry i have not been able to come on line as my PC went down. i am taking all the advice you have given me. The DCA are still sending threathening letters and a final notice etc. I am ignoring their letters but would it make sense to write back to them and say that we do not agree and that there is no debt. - which I had already done ? They are also phoning the house but I have not taken their calls. thanks again to all. A thanks/BF

Hi dx and Hi seanamarts thanks very much for your fast replies - sorry i am not as fast as you in getting back to you. Yes dx - i agree - its all a road of borrocks. !! i will ask my daughter to write to her bank. I think thats the best route. Thanks for that. The debt collectors phoned many times and i spoke with them - i was always very polite and always maintained that there was no contract. When they tell me that it ws a non cancellable contract - my comment was that "theres no such thing." I wrote to them and told them to stop harrassing us, that we have no debt and that was our final position on the matter. Seanamarts - yes i will scan the agreement and send u. (My scanner broke just - as i was trying to scan.) and i will PM the company name and details to you. I also agree with you regarding their super trumped up prices. My daugher may have been naive, but not that stupid - as she said, she could buy a car for that money. I will ask my daughter exactly how she "won" the photoshoot - I never asked that. what difference/impact will this make? Thanks so much. your responses on this issue really does make a difference. My whole attitude towards this and the debt collection company has changed - big time. All the best/BF

Dear All, thanks so much for all your fast response - i am real sorry i had to go out and after i submitted my post. Let me answer all the questions Seanamarts : your first email (a) yes we have a copy of the agreement (b) I have not heard back from Consumer Direct © Yes - what i actually told them was that there was no debt as the CD with the photos were returned. Should I have stated that this is a disputed debt? i did not want to use those words when i wrote to them - the fact that i said there was no debt clearly states i am disputing it. your second mail - no - there were no prints - and she did not order any. she "won" the photoshoot but had to buy the photos. I do not know in what context she won. dx100uk - thanks for your comments - well she paid the deposit for the photos in the CD by debit card. How does that make a difference? BankFodder - yes we got the copy of the agreement. I can see that the figures were written in the same hand writing. They used a standard pre-printed agreement which is in triplicate and the copies are "carbon copies" if you see what i mean. so whats written on the top copy is reproduced in the carbon copy underneath. The key issue for me is to try and end this ASAP - but i also appreciate that sometimes this may not be possible and the best action would be to just wait and see what they do. In the agreement - there is a clause and it states Cancellation rights : Because this Agreement is to be signed by both you and us at our business premises, this agreement is not cancellable under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. this is a new one on me - is this a fair clause? is this not a one sided term which favours the service provider? If this is real and true, then surely they would have served a writ on my daugher ages ago. can some one please advise me on this. many thanks again to every one for their fast response. Burmafriday