Beyond, Sorry don't quite understand what you mean. They can take it unlawfully if they like and I will fight afterwards so long as the DN is 100% 'bunking', but what exactly do you mean by "write accepting unlawful repudiation of agreement". ???? if their DN is totally invalid, do I need to VT again, shouldn't my previous VT stand, shouldn't it just be their paperwork wrong? I feel that I should write the letter stating it, see what they say, fight my corner, hope they take car unlawfully in mean time? But would my argument which I now believe centres around the invalid DN and furthermore their invalid TN and my VT. Am I wrong? Ill play it either way Thanks beyond

Trying to get my head around the forms that you are talking about, recently recieved my SAR but don't have a Welcome Elite headed sheet. I do though have two sheets detailing what commission their agents earned from my CCa + insurances from my 2 loans. Would this be of any interest to you or should it be of any use to me to fight them about?

Thanks wannabe, I'm going to write a letter to them now, because they are chasing money, as to how 1. their DN is unlawful, unenforceable and not good practice as I hadn't missed a payment in 6 months and the next one wasn't due for 10 days. Their DN had no proper date for paying areas - only 14 days etc.. plus on the top of the letter it said Without Prejudice. Should I be playing all these cards now? Should I also then state in the letter how therefore their Termination notice to me is again unlawful and unenforceable, firstly on the back of the unenforcable (we think) DN and secondly the date errors between my VT and their TN. Any thoughts?

Dear Ozzy, Sentence should have read started agrrement end of 2004!! Sorry. In terms of the then agreement I can fight the PPi and other extras were missold as I was naive at the time and of course I felt I had to take them etc.. to get the car etc.. Figures associated with this deal are from CCA:- will scan tonight and post Cash price for goods - 6775.00 less deposit - 600.00 amount of credit - 6175.00 accpt fee - 150.00 finance charge - 3795.32 total chaergs - 3945.32 total amount payable - 10720.32 apr - 30.2% monthly payment over 48 months - 210.84 optional insurances:- PPI - 1935.90 mechanical - 650.00 emergency recov - 330.00 shortfall - 145.00 collission call - 40.00 total premiums - 3100.91 finance charge - 1860.37 total amounty payable - 4961.28 apr - 28.4% monthly payment 48 months - 103.38 total monthly payment - 314.20 over 48 months Got their commssions on this too which I'll post later - what a hoot - they certainly had a good day with me on this one! I sent the letter on 28/9/06 to VT and in it I also mention all the way back then how I felt PPI was missold - never followed it up! I've got copy of letter. Now the settlement quotation in my SAR is dated 15/11/06 and settlement date is 11/12/06 however I gave back my old car and recieved new car and new agreement on 31/10/06. From my statement from Welcome around those dates it reads as follows:- balance 12/10/06 capitalisation debit 10.00 7890.04 20/11/06 correct adj credit 7125.20 764.84 20/11/06 correct adj credit 573.98 190.86 20/11/06 correct adj credit 15.31 175.55 20/11/06 correct adj credit 175.55 0.00 new agreement 18/11/06 broker disbursement debit 12732.96 12732.96 18/11/06 insurance premium credit 350.00 12732.96 17/12/06 direct debit credit 265.27 12467.69 Interesting that the insurance premium credit didn't come off my balance????????? Any clearer with those figures to run alongside the ones earlier?? Thanks ever so much for your help. Hopefully will try and get my head around it all later, been so hectic at work don;t even quite know where i'm upto with all this! Cheers

To wannabedebtfreesoon, I've paid over half on this account so I know they have to get court order etc.. they have sent the DN which I feel and from the opinions on here is unlawful and unenforceable and untimely. I then sent a VT to which they replied with their own TN saying I couldn't VT. Not bothered about keeping car and will address new car as soon as this one goes. I won't pay them anymore money. Just ensuring that they will accept my VT then trying to fight if either I can reduce my arrears because of un enforceable Credit agreement or dissecting my SAR for hidden charges etc.. to reclaim money. They can have the damn car - (sorry to say it to the car cos it's been fab!) lol. So now it's do i put account into dispute? Hope they unlawfully repossess car - fun!? or fight to return the car asap and then negotiate the arrears? Thanks

Hey, 1.Yeah I think the £1000 is just the balance left over from the previous car and at the time I think I got a pretty good deal? Cos they basically wiped off any arrrears to leave £1000 outstanding, I gave them the car back after just over 2 years on VT, got a new car and I'm pretty sure that ain't bad. 2.So the other figures on my CCA look fine? Should the total amount of credit include the deposit paid? If I paid £650 deposit can they still add this to the amount that needs interest charging to it? 3. I'm going to look at re claiming my PPI from my 1st car loan that started end )$ so I know I have to be quick, How will I work out how much to reclaim if I ended up VT'ing the car at stage 32 out of 48 months with arrears on account or should I leave them to work out the figures? 4. Is is only PPI that can be reclaimed? Wass wondering about the healthcare stuff etc... fortunately I learnt in time for taking my 2nd agreement out! Would be nice though to see if I could reclaim from the first! Thanks people

OOps the rest of the post should read TO be on the Subject 2 (Financier Settlement Amount) = £7125.00 G.G. Trade Value £2570.00 75% = £1927.50 Min Disposal Cost = £150.00 Net Trade Value = £1777.50 NEGATIVE EQUITY AMOUNT £5347.70 MAXIMUM NEGATIVE EQUITY = £1000 MINIMUM SPREAD IN VEHICLE = £5197.70 THEN ON ANOTHER SHEET - A SETTLEMENT QUOTATION PRINT says:- O/S balance 7890.04 (Age 32 of 48 months) Arrears 2180.25 Settlements Rebate Penalty net payable inc arrears Renewal £764.84 £0.00 £7125.20 Does that mean a blooooody thing to anyone?? Oh and another good eye opening thing was there commissions they earned on this deal which I shall upload later:- Commissions - Finance £366.62 Shortfall extra £114.91 MBI+ £0.00 Emergency Recovery £0.00 PPI £0.00 Document fee £100.00 !!!! Total Commission £581.73 Nice little earner. Cheers Everyone

Hi Guys, sorry v busy at work til late last night and going to be bombarded today too til the evening so it'll be difficult to upload any more forms til then. I do however have my ' Used Vehicle Invoice' infront of me, figures on are as follows:- Vehicle price - £8292.00 Gross Amount £8292.00 Less Part Exchange amount £5521.55 Net amount due £2770.45 Add outstanding HP £ 5521.55 Less Deposit £650.00 Amount due from finance Co. £7642.00 Amount due from customer £ blank On a from from my SAR which is headed WCF ONLY - Credit Sale Product - Negative Equity Calculator Figures are:- TO be on the Subject 2 (Financier Settlement Amount) =

At work myself so not much time to go over my paperwork but will do v soon. With regards the £1000, that was as far as I remeber re-financing (negative equity) cos I traded in my old car which was financed thru welcome. I'll dig out the sales invoice too. Am sure i've got it. Thanks

Dear Post and Ozzy, Sorry for name dropping but it looks like you fantastic people are the ones with a head for figures! Any chance you could have a scoot over mine. Be so much appreciated. Just want to make sure APR etc is correct. As a few other things seem to be going my way re. the in effective DN and welcome sending me someone elses personal details. God! I wonder if somebody has been sent one of my pages with my details on??

Hey you welscum specialists! Would love any insight into my agreemnets you may have. Obviously now it's looking great in terms of me being able to VT cos of thier un enforceable termination and notice of default, plus also the fact they've sent somebody elses personal info to me as part of my SAR. Will I be able to get the default listing off my credit files?

Again, great thanks, I shall draft a letter later this evening. Is there anybody out there who doesn't mind if they have the time to look at the figures on my credit agreement. I believe there are a few of you out there with these 'special calculators'! I would be so grateful if anybody has the time to do this. I am more than willing to offer donations. Again Thanks

Thats great thanks, exactly the kind of thing I was hoping. On a further note I have just recieved my SAR from them this morning and firstly I belive it is incomplete - more to follow when I've finished work this evening. Secondly, included in all my paperwork was a credit form for another customer which detailed their account number with Welcome, their name, address and bank account details and a few account details regarding welcome! What do you think I should do? Thanks

Can anybody else help any further yet? Many Many Thanks in advance

Sounds great so far. Just trying to work out where I might stand by my VT to them. If anymore things can be found out about the agreement in terms of it possibly being un-enforceable - where would I stand and what could I do if anything? Thanks

OOOPPPSSS!! Sorry didn't realise the attchments were going to come out like that. Nice long read anyway? Cheers!

HI Everyone, Been reading all the threads re. Welcome for weeks now and becoming more and more convinced I need to get my paperwork checked out, thanks to you all. I'm already in the process of a number of issues with them, again thanks to the great insights of the CAGGERs on here. So quick history/breakdown for you:- (I'll try and keep it concise!) 1. Agreement taken out 31/10/06 2. Payments upto date until being made redundant 11/08 3. Came to agreement with them to basically pay every other month. Presumed what they had agreed wouldn't therefore mean I was missing payments, just that they would temporarily re-negotiate. 4. As of August 09 began to pay monthly the full amount. 5. This is where it gets a little more interesting - honest! 6. Made my regular payment for month end Nov 09. Next payment therefore not due til end Dec 09. Instead they send Notice of Default on 24th Dec. Why?? (letter attached default1 & 2) 7. I spoke to them and proceeded to make my regular payment end Dec 09. 8. Obviously that got me a little p*ssed off that they sent such a letter. Then on 21st Jan 10 they sent 'another' letter amking sure I was going to pay end of Jan 10 as if nothing had happened re. the Notice of Default. 9. 4th Feb 10 I sent them many letters a) voluntary termination b) general complaint c) harrasment letter 10. Funnily enough on the 8th Feb I recieved a letter from them saying that my account had now been terminated. 11. I re sent the above letters detailing a further complaint plus SAR report 12. Recieved letter 1/3/10 again saying I can only voluntary surrender. Basically after all that I would like to know if my credit agreement is correct and or if their notice of default was lawful and subsequent termination. I am fully aware of my liability (at the moment) for my arrears, I just really need to get rid of this car and it's monthly payments. I know they need a court order to take car, I just don't want to be left liable for the full balance. Many files attached for evidence. :???:Thanks in advance for your help.