What to do next?? I have now written to the Information Commissioner and threatened the new owners legal action as they have not complied with my Sunject Access Request. MBNA have denied unlawful recession, they have said that they have done nothing wrong and the debt now belongs to another party. My credit record does not show when the new debt was aquired. What to do next?

Ok. I will send this at the end of today unless anyone has any suggestions. A Bank Their Address Dear Sir or Madam, Re: Bank -v- ME Case No. blah blah blah CPR 31.14 Request Further to our appearance at the Allocation Hearing at Eastbourne county court, as you are aware I will be submitting a defence to your claim. In order to file a full defence, please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of each of the following document mentioned in your Particulars of Claim: 1 The agreement. a) You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached. This was not issued with the particulars of the claim. I require you to send a copy of the said agreement, along with a copy of the terms and conditions that appear on the back of the agreement. b) I require confirmation that you have the original. c) I must stress this request is NOT made pursuant to section 78 Consumer Credit Act 1974 but is made pursuant to the Civil Procedurerules ( Pre action protocols and Part 31.16) and therefore unsigned copy will not suffice, only a copy of the original contract in its unaltered form will suffice in these circumstances. 2. The default notice a) I require a copy of the default notice mentioned in your particulars of claim. b) I require confirmation that you have a copy of the original default notice that you mention. As you are aware, this case has been allocated to the small claims track for determination upon my delivering a defence. At this moment in time I have not delivered my defence and I require certain information from you. In consequence the provisions of CPR 27(2) are of no effect and you should not seek to avoid compliance with your CPR 31 duties by claiming otherwise. You should ensure compliance with its CPR 31 duties and ensure that the documents I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, they will have a right to possession of that document if it has been mentioned in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case. Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party. In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request. If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence. If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order. I do hope this will not be necessary and look forward to hearing from you. Yours faithfully

First, when did you open the account??

Ok. A letter such as this?? Any additions or suggestions apprecaited. A Bank Their Address Dear Sir or Madam, Re: Bank -v- ME Case No. blah blah blah CPR 31.14 Request Further to our appearance at the Allocation Hearing at Eastbourne County Court, as you are aware I will be submitting a defence to your claim. In order to file a full defence, please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of each of the following document mentioned in your Particulars of Claim: 1 The agreement. a) You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached. This was not issued with the particulars of the claim. I require you to send a copy of the said agreement, along with a copy of the terms and conditions that appear on the back of the agreement. b) I require confirmation that you have the original. c) I must stress this request is NOT made pursuant to section 78 Consumer Credit Act 1974 but is made pursuant to the Civil Procedurerules ( Pre action protocols and Part 31.16) and therefore unsigned copy will not suffice, only a copy of the original contract in its unaltered form will suffice in these circumstances. 2. The default notice a) I require a copy of the default notice mentioned in your particulars of claim. b) I require confirmation that you have a copy of the original default notice that you mention. As you are aware, this case has been allocated to the small claims track for determination upon my delivering a defence. At this moment in time I have not delivered my defence and I require certain information from you. In consequence the provisions of CPR 27(2) are of no effect and you should not seek to avoid compliance with your CPR 31 duties by claiming otherwise. You should ensure compliance with its CPR 31 duties and ensure that the documents I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, they will have a right to possession of that document if it has been mentioned in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case. Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party. In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request. If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence. If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order. I do hope this will not be necessary and look forward to hearing from you. Yours faithfully

Ok. Option 2 it is. Suggested letter?? or follow the standard one that is available on this site. Do I give them 14 days or 7? (Thanks for the advice by the way)

OK- Lots to take in and think through. On this basis I can either (Correct me if I am wrong) 1) Make an amended defence based on the information they have provided me and admitted that they do not have. To do this I would: a) Write to them to request clarification of the documents they are to submit and confirmation that they do not have the originals or anything else. b) Go throught the defence on the basis that the information they have given me is effectivley vague and unenforceable. c) Point out that they have failed to follow CPR rules backed up with a history of fudging around eg: Subject Access Request, S78 request late. d) The application is illegible and therefore I am unable to plead as to the enforceability of the document. e) Apply for the case to be struck out on these grounds. or 2) Apply for the docuemnts again from the claimant and clarification that they do not have the originals. If not available within set time period, apply for extention of defence and file an N244 giving them an order to produce documents or case struck out. or 3) Request further better particulars and disclosure of documents central to the issue. Please correct me if I am wrong but I will either defend this or have the case struck out. In simple terms, what would you advise and recommend I write???

I am the defendent in this. The particulars of the claim are: Quote: "The Claimants claim is for (between 5-6) presently due pursuant to a credit agreement entered into by the parties, full particulars of the claim have been supplied hitherto. By an agreement dated 30/10/2003 the defendant has an account number (blah blah) with the claimant. The Defendant has failed or delayed to adhere to the terms of the default notice issued by the claimant under the terms of the consumer credit act 1974. The balance as at (blah blah) on said account is (Between 5-6)" The full particulars were not supplied. I wrote to request a copy of the default, credit agreement and so on. They did not respond within the time scale so I had to submit an embarassed defence. In their letters they have admitted that they do not keep a copy of their default notice nor keep proof of postage. They only keep a computer record that one was issued and a template of what it would have looked like. In this case, no default notice, no proof of postage. The credit agreement. All they have is a front copy of an application form which is illegible in places (Their solicitor has admitted that they do not have a clearer copy or the original. The copy is taken from a microfiche) They have a reconstructed version, which I understand does not conform to the regulations. They have a similar copy in A4 format, without my name and address and they have stated that this is what it would have looked like. Apart from this, this is the same is the reconstructed one. They did not follow pre court protocols when it came to submit my original defence. At the allocation hearing they admitted that this was all they had. The court on this basis did not follow my draft proposals about them supplying the docs within 14 days or esle case to be struck out. They requested that I resubmited a defence on the basis that I had been given everything. (That's my understanding any way) Prior to this coming to court they have frustrated proceedings. On the 27th April 2009, I made a Subject Access request under the Data Protection Act 1998(Data Protection Act). I again sent a copy of this letter, along with a reminder on the 13th May, of which I retained proof of postage. The Claimant failed to comply within the required 40 day period, therefore broke the Sixth Data Protection Principle (that data is processed in line with the rights of the individual) I wrote to the Information Commisioner to complain. He responded by saying: “As you have provided proof of postage it is now my view that it is likely Sainsburys Bank failed to comply with the sixth data protection principle (that personal data is processed in line with the rights of the individual) in this case. This is because it now seems reasonable to assume Sainsburys Bank would have received your subject Access Request and therefore would have failed to comply with it within the required 40 day period. Therefore it is now my view that it is unlikely Sainsburys Bank complied with the Data Protection Act in this case” I also made a consumer credit agreement request which they failed to respond within the 12 plus 2 day period. I feel that I should get in writing confirmation that they do not have any further docs and that they do not have the originals before resubmitting my defence. Is this relevent or should I just submit a defence. In terms of what I'd like to achieve. Have the case struck out so that it cannot be enforced. As they have frustrated proceedings and failed to follow CPR rules, Consumer Credit Agreement Request and Subject Access Request, are there any grounds to counter claim or at least have this taken into consideration. The case is not going down the small claims route, so the alleged debt is for no more than £5,000.

Thanks. Sorry for sounding stupid but just for clarification: 1) Pre filing embarrassed defence, I made a request for docs from the claimiant and confirmation that they had originals. They did not comply so I sent in my embarassed defence. 2) Pre the Allocation hearing, they did not send everything. 3) At the allocation hearing, the claimiant admitted that they did not have any other docs, or originals. 4) I was given 21 days to submit a new defence. On this basis I would: a) Make another request under cpr 31.16 even though they have admitted on not having any other docs. Give them 7 days to confirm they do not have anything else or/ and b) Make an N244 applciation notice (Any ideas of costs?) What happens if I cannot get a responce or hearing within the next 21 days before I have to re submit a defence??

Just a quick question. I had a limited company which ceased trading last April and was dissolved in September. I wrote to the Abbey stating that I had ceased trading and not to authorise any further payments. They have since continued to make direct debit payments which as caused the account to go overdrawn. I never had any overdraft facilities and I insisted at the time that I did not wish these. Now the Abbey have demanded around £200 and have put a default notice on the account. Where do I stand? I cannot remember if I gave a guarantee when I opened the account, but as far as I am concerned, I have not authorised an overdraft on the account, yet they have caused this.

Means2andend OK. This this should form part of my defence as I have already made a request under CPR 31.16. Before submitting my defence, should I write to the opposition solicitors requesting these docs again under 31.16 or to confirm what they stated in court, that they do not have the originals???

Same with myself. They have sent T&C's on what would have been on the reverse. They will not confirm one way or another if they have the original document to back this up. I am still waiting for them to take action so that I can then go through the court process. That's when they will have to declare if they have it or not. The alterative is to make an offer to inspect the original document at one of there offices. They probally won't respond but at lease it adds to your case. When was your agreement taken out?

Many thanks for peoples help an earlier page. Had my allocation Hearing on Tusday. The opposition solicitors have stated that they have no other information to give me. So in other words, 1) No copy of the default notice or proof of postage, only a template of this without the details filled in 2) Only an illegible front copy of an application form/ consumer credit agreement- No original, only a microfiche copy 3) Reconstructed CCA of both the said original and current terms 4) Another version of the T&C's, without my name and address (Exactly the same wording as the reconstructed original) of what would have appeared on the reverse Although it was not mentioned, they have a copy of the Waksman ruling to hand. The case is now going through a fast track (Under 5k) and I have to submit a new defence within 21 days. The DJ allowed me to amend my original embarassed defence to take into consideration that no other documents will be forewith. Any advice would be appreciated! 1) This is a front copy of the said agreement, which clearly states application form, but is almost illegible in places. http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/u.../agreement.jpg 2) They have supplied a reconstructed credit agreement, not a copy of the original. They have supplied two versions, this one here and another. The other does not have my name and address on, but it has been given to me based on what would have appeared on the reverse. Page 1: http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/u...onstrcted1.jpg Page 2: http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/u...onstrcted2.jpg Page 3: http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/u...onstrcted3.jpg Page 4: http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/u...onstrcted4.jpg Page 5: http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/u...onstrcted5.jpg Page 6: http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/u...onstrcted6.jpg Prior to the hearing I made CPR request but they did not send this. Prior to putting any my defence I request all the info under CPR 31.6, which they failed to respond. Copy of last letter before I went to the allocation hearing: Dear Sir/Madam, I refer to your letter dated 8 th February 2010, received today 11th February, the contents of which have been noted. In response to your comments and my recent requests, I would like to remind you of the following. 1) I respectfully request that you provide me by return a copy all parts of the credit agreement which bears my signature. The copy that you have sent is illegible and does not contain the original terms and conditions. I must stress this request is NOT made pursuant to section 78 Consumer Credit Act 1974 but is made pursuant to the Civil Procedure Rules ( Pre action protocols and Part 31.16) and therefore an illegible front copy will not suffice, only a copy of the original contract in its unaltered form will suffice in these circumstances. Despite my request for this, you continue to ignore this request which was made under Civil Procedure Rules. You have not sent a copy of the reverse side of the original application form or any other document that may be referred to. I require a clear copy of both front and back, along with any other documents referred to. I also require confirmation that you have the original document. 2) I have requested full copies of all documents that you intend to rely on court which you have appeared not to send everything. I also require confirmation of which documentation you intend to rely on in court in pursuant to the Civil Procedure Rules (CPR 18 & CPR 31.14). You have not responded to this request. 3) I requested a copy of the default notice, along with proof of postage. You have failed to send this. I require a copy of this, along with proof of postage. I must draw your attention to Civil Procedure Rules part 31.16(3)©&(D) which gives the court the power to order you to disclose this information to me. The disclosure of these documents will allow me to consider any claim I may have against your organisation. You are preventing me from making a defence and you are frustrating proceedings. If you fail to comply with my request I will be left no option but to make an application to the Court for an order made under the provisions of CPR 31.16 ordering you to disclose the documents which I have requested. I need help with a defence. Any ideas or advice? Thanks.

Had my allocation Hearing yesterday. The opposition solicitors have stated that they have no other information to give me. So in other words, 1) No copy of the default notice or proof of postage, only a template of this without the details filled in 2) Only an illegible front copy of an application form/ consumer credit agreement- No original, only a microfiche copy 3) Reconstructed CCA of both the said original and current terms 4) Another version of the T&C's, without my name and address (Exactly the same wording as the reconstructed original) of what would have appeared on the reverse Although it was not mentioned, they have a copy of the Waksman ruling to hand. The case is now going through a fast track (Under 5k) and I have to submit a new defence within 21 days. The DJ allowed me to amend my original embarassed defence to take into consideration that no other documents will be forewith. Any advice would be appreciated! 1) This is a front copy of the said agreement, which clearly states application form, but is almost illegible in places. http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/u.../agreement.jpg 2) They have supplied a reconstructed credit agreement, not a copy of the original. They have supplied two versions, this one here and another. The other does not have my name and address on, but it has been given to me based on what would have appeared on the reverse. Page 1: http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/u...onstrcted1.jpg Page 2: http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/u...onstrcted2.jpg Page 3: http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/u...onstrcted3.jpg Page 4: http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/u...onstrcted4.jpg Page 5: http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/u...onstrcted5.jpg Page 6: http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/u...onstrcted6.jpg

I am still to find out about rolling these into one. From the advice I have seen, they are not allowed to do it. I ned to find out which act may have been broken.

Even if those terms and conditions were on the reverse side, they are unenforceable? The copy they sent did not have my name or address, or theirs. Only stated that this is what would have been on the reverse side. I will look at the CPR. They did not respond when the claim form came in. No documents attached, just the court form. Wrote them a pre protocols letter to return copies of the docs and default notice. They did not send these and had to submit an embarrassed defence. They haven't even kept a copy of the default notice and proof of postage. Only supplied a template and a computer record that something was produced.

Thanks. Its October 2003. The t&C's are reconstited ones, but I have come home today and received a letter from there new solicitors. In it contains the same T&C's in a different format. But they have stated that this is what would have been on the reverse. (This would be the application form) What regs require the original and does this have any relevance. They sent a letter on the 16th to advise of a change of solicitor. This letter would have arrived on the 17th. (Yesterday) Nothing like leaving it to the last minute.

I have the allocation hearing on Tuesday. Can someone check this to see if it valid: 1) This is a front copy of the said agreement, which clearly states application form, but is almost illegible in places. http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/u.../agreement.jpg 2) They have supplied a reconstructed credit agreement, not a copy of the original. Page 1: http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/u...onstrcted1.jpg Page 2: http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/u...onstrcted2.jpg Page 3: http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/u...onstrcted3.jpg Page 4: http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/u...onstrcted4.jpg Page 5: http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/u...onstrcted5.jpg Page 6: http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/u...onstrcted6.jpg If they produce these T&C's stating that this is what would have been set out, I am I correct that they will still need to produce the original and what parts of law state that for cards issued after 2004? (Is that the date or is it 2006) do not have to have the originals, and which parts of law state that before this date they have to supply originals? Finally, when a claim is submitted and the N1CPC is sent, what should accompany this? The claim form referred to ' full particulars are supplied hitherto' but these were not served with this. Can any one advise which part of the pre court protocols should they have adherred to? Just beginning to panic and I want everything clear in my mind.

I have the allocation hearing on Tuesday. Can someone check this to see if it valid: 1) This is a front copy of the said agreement, which clearly states application form, but is almost illegible in places. http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/u.../agreement.jpg 2) They have supplied a reconstructed credit agreement, not a copy of the original. Page 1: http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/u...onstrcted1.jpg Page 2: http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/u...onstrcted2.jpg Page 3: http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/u...onstrcted3.jpg Page 4: http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/u...onstrcted4.jpg Page 5: http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/u...onstrcted5.jpg Page 6: http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/u...onstrcted6.jpg If they produce these T&C's stating that this is what would have been set out, I am I correct that they will still need to produce the original and what parts of law state that for cards issued after 2004? (Is that the date or is it 2006) do not have to have the originals, and which parts of law state that before this date they have to supply originals? Finally, when a claim is submitted and the N1CPC is sent, what should accompany this? The claim form referred to ' full particulars are supplied hitherto' but these were not served with this. Can any one advise which part of the pre court protocols should they have adherred to? Just beginning to panic and I want everything clear in my mind.

Just a quick question. When a claim is submitted and the N1CPC is sent, what should accompany this? The claim form referred to ' full particulars are supplied hitherto' but these were not served with this. Can any one advise which part of the pre court protocols should they have adherred to? I'm preparing my defence this weekend.

Thanks. That would be appreciated.

If you look at the beginning of this discussion, on page 1, I have scanned in the copies that have been provided to me. The application does not contain any of the terms and they have only sent me the front copy, not the info overleaf. The other scan is a reconstucted version. I agree, it looks like they are going to go down this route, but to prepare myself, I am taking copies of the Waksman judgement, pre court protocols, consumer credit act, and historial letters relating to my request for information. This includes pre court protocols which will support my embarrased defence, and other requests ie: Subject access request- Which they breached and my consumer credit agreement request, which they defaulted as the info was sent outside the 12 days. This will show a history of failure to abide by the correct rules and protocols.

Has anyone had a chance to look at my last set of questions and answers. I need to prepare myself for Tuesday. Thanks

Just as an update, still no news. The trading standards have not come back to me since xmas and the ombudsman have not written for a while. Even Barclaycard have kept quiet. Will keep you updated.

Have requested this. The only thing they sent was a page from a PC. Looks like it was loaded on the 30th Sep which coincides with when they verbally told me that they would have purchased the debt. They wrote on the 14th Oct to say that they had been sold this. MBNA claim this was not sold until 31st Oct but was identified before hand.

Thanks for the pointer to the enforceable. Following on from yesterday, here are the answers to some of your questions: The form that I received regarding the allocation hearing is the N24. All it states is that a hearing will take place and has been allocated for 30 minutes. It also says that this case may be released to another judge, possibly at a different court. There is no explanation to why it is being held. On their allocation form N150, section D, they have put the amount in dispute, no applications in this claim, No to experts, small claims track and that the defendants defence is straight forward and can be dealt with on the small claims track. They have allowed 1 hour to this. They have sent two reconstructed versions of the consumer credit agreement. No 1 (I presume is the oldest- No date) is different to No 2 (which is dated 01/10/08) and the charges are different. Like the subject access request, they were outside the Consumer Credit Agreement request of 12 working days. They also wrote to me at the time July 2009 stating that they are only obligated to send reconstructed versions and that the signed credit agreement would only be provided if they seek legally to enforce the debt or take legal action against you. This contradicts what they wrote recently. Their legal argument will likely be that they have supplied everything therefore they will apply for my defence to be struck out. They quoted recently in response to my defence (Not CPR request): As per recent court ruling by his Honour Hudge Waksman at the High Court in Manchester, “The debtor has a legitimate interest in seeing in seeing a copy of the agreement he signed, not in the sense of proof of executing but as information” Therefore we need only provide a reconstructed copy of the original agreement. Further, His Honour Judge Waksman ruled that if a form is signed stating terms and conditions are attached and that a form does not include the prescribed terms but there are, attached by a staple, further terms (including prescribed terms) then the document contains the prescribed terms. Reconstituting of documents are acceptable and there is no need to keep the original agreement. For avoidance of doubt, we enclose the signed credit agreement. This was an illegible photo copy of the application form, and not the reverse.