Out of the blue last week came an offer of £750 which would be paid into his account. The usual 'conditions' were there - full and final settlement, no further action, we won't pay overdraft interest etc but it's still considerably more than he was claiming so we're saying thank you very much and just sending them something along the lines of:- 'Thank you for your offer in relation to the above matter. I am prepared to accept this on the condition that no further charges are made on this account, or have been that I am yet to discover, that will bring the sum owing, including any overdraft interest to more than the £750 offered. In the event that the total goes over £750, further action will be taken to recover the amount. I also require that, if you have made any adverse entries on my credit record in relation to this matter, they are removed completely with immediate effect.' Oh, yes, but not til after the payment's been made. It pays to keep at 'em.

They weren't too helpful. Ignored my letter and are now threatening to close the account despite the fact that I haven't actually defaulted because paid the premium albeit a week or so late. All I'm doing is refusing to pay the £30 charge.

We sent them the month's premium (which they cashed) with the letter and a request for a new direct debit mandate so that no more payments would be missed. Heard nothing until today when a letter arrived telling us that as we hadn't paid the £57 etc they would be excercising their right to close the account a demand full payment. We haven't defaulted - all payments have been made within the month they were due. The only thing we've refused to do is pay the rip-off charge. They have ignored our request for a new dd mandate. Any thoughts anyone?

Now that the cheque's cleared I can clarify the above. I was waiting for a reply from NatWest telling me, go on then - report us, when a letter arrived last week explaining why I was such a bad customer and that my overdraft had reached such-and-such a level and that they only transferred to Credit Management Sevices because my wages were no longer being paid in. Yeah, like I'm going to keep paying my wages in so they can be swallowed up by charges every week. Anyway, in a nutshell, they said it was my fault and the 'poor conduct' was on my part and not theirs, BUT, even though they weren't at fault, they were prepared to offer me £400 to shut up. If I chose to accept they would send me a cheque or if not I could approach the Financial Ombudsman. So there's a choice; collect £400, which is considerably more than the outstanding charges they owe me or start writing letters to the FO and starting all over again... well, no contest really. The £400 is very timely and useful - £120 of it will pay the Court Fee for my ongoing Barclays claim. Donation on its way to CAG in the next few days. Cheers, everyone. Keep at 'em.

That makes it all the more interesting that First Credit have written (or say they have) to Barclays to ask for a copy of the agreement. Perhaps I'm not the only one who doesn't know. I'll see how this one pans out.

Doh!! I really need to revise, don't I?

There must be an awful lot of loans, catalgoue purchases, overdrafts etc out there that aren't legally binding at all. Can we expect to see lenders becoming a little more careful about this from now on I wonder?

Will be doing this directly with the Court as soon as I can raise the Court Fee

Both. Had a blank credit agreement with my name and address filled in in pen from GUS and a letter from First Credit saying they've written to the originial creditor (Barclays) asking for a copy etc etc. Both are now out of the 40 day deadline.

For information and comment, this is a copy of the request that I send in the first place with my £1 postal order. 'With regard to the above matter I have been making monthly payments arranged with the mediation of PayPlan for some time now. As part of my ongoing efforts to settle my debts and get myself back on track I am requesting that you provide me with a copy of the original signed agreement relating to this matter. I understand that this is my right under the legislation contained within section 77 (1) and section 78 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. I enclose a £1 postal order in payment of the statutory fee. I would appreciate it if you would respond within the statutory time limit.'

Well, they wrote back and said after due consideration blah, blah, blah... Go away, we're not paying up. So:- 'Thank you for your letter of ....... You appear to have misunderstood me. I am not asking you if you would be so kind as to refund the unlawful charges you levied against me on this account, I am telling you that if you do not do so immediately I will issue a claim in the local County Court to recover these, along with any thus incurred overdraft interest and Court Fees. I am not interested in your Terms and Conditions. The fact that your charges are unfair and unlawful render them irrelevant. I have already given you ample time and notice of my intentions. Payment is expected by return of post. No further notice will be given. Furthermore, if these charges have resulted in adverse entries on my Credit Record you must remove these immediately and completely if you wish to avoid further action.' That's going off to them today. Hah!!

This just got very interesting but I can't say anything yet. About Friday I should think...

Anyway - I asked First Credit for a copy of the agreement and about a month on got a letter saying they've written to Barclays for it. Nothing yet. 40 days nearly up...

If I'd written that back at primary school about 100 years ago, or so it feels, I'd have got a gold star to stick in my exercise book. Thanks.

Nothing yet - although I called at the branch yesterday to collect the money left in the account when it was closed as was told that my account had, in fact, been 'upgraded' to a savings account and there was around twelve quid in there. No comms in response to my letter however.

Two things have happened recently that are relevant to this thread. I've had a reply from GUS which is basically a photocopy of an agreement which they have filled in with my name and address (name spelt wrong) but is unsigned by me. I feel I should write to them and say 'no, I want a signed one' and ask them to tell me in writing if they don't have one because, although they haven't complied with my request I don't trust any of these people and they might 'find' a signed agreement at a later date. No, I don't believe there ever was a signed agreement but I might be mistaken and what if they produce one at a later stage? The other thing is, I've received a reply from First Credit telling me they've written to the original creditor for a copy of the agreement. They are running out of time for the 40 days and in any case this letter arrived well after the 12 day period was up. Do I now have to wait 40 days from the date I received the letter or is this, as I believe, irrelevant and I just go along as if this letter never arrived? Also, what happens if they come up with a copy of the agreement after the 40 day deadline? Would this cause problems for me if it went to Court inasmuch as the Court might say that, despite their non-compliance, I obviously have a debt to the company and although they committed an offence by not responding in time, the debt obviously exists and order me to pay up, possibly paying more than I am already?

Here's the letter going to HSBC informing them of my intention to lodge a formal complaint:- 'Dear Bungling Incompetents (not really) As I have had no response from my previous letter and as the bank has seen fit to close my account despite all I have no alternative but to lodge an official complaint regarding the serious breach of confidentiality whereby somebody from the branch telephoned my home and, without asking for any form of id and despite the fact that it was a woman’s voice on the phone, divulged information to my partner in the form of telling her that I was opening a bank account and they needed to have sight of my id. I decided to let this pass at the time but as you have stuck to the letter with regard to closing my account I feel it only fair to return the favour by reporting this breach to the relevant authority. My partner will verify that she received the call if and when it becomes necessary. In the meantime I would be obliged if you would let me know what the bank intends to do by way of apology for this totally unprofessional behaviour.'

Well, that's it. Account closed when I tried to log on this morning so I'm going to make an official complaint about the breach of confidentiality. Stuff 'em

I truly hope so. Best of luck with it all. It makes my £30 bounced premium charge (See 'administration chearge' thread) seem a bit paltry. Go get 'em..

This is only just starting so I haven't sent the letter off yet. They've 'given me' until 1st of May so I'm sending the cheque (minus the thirty quid) next week. I'll post the result as soon as I know anything. I'm beginning to enjoy all this stuff...

How's this:- 'With reference to your letter of xxxxxxxx please find enclosed my cheque for £xx.xx, being the missed premium on the above account. Your ‘administration charge’ of £30 is a profit-making, unlawful charge and will not be paid unless you can provide me with a true, believable breakdown of how this charge was arrived at. Any attempt to cancel this agreement as a result of non-payment of your charge will be regarded as retaliatory and will be challenged in Court unless, again, you can prove to me that the charge is justifiable. I hope we will not have to resort to legal action over this matter. The missed premium was a genuine error and I would like to continue paying future premiums as normal but will not be intimidated, by threats of cancellation, legal action or otherwise, into paying unlawful, unenforceable charges. I hope you will agree that it will be beneficial to both parties if this matter is resolved immediately by your acceptance of my payment and cancellation of your charge.'

Reading down the list it looks as though this is a fairly common thing. I have no intention of paying the admin charge as they call it and I shall be sending them the owed premium minus the charge. If they then try to cancel the policy or demand the full amount I will require them to provide a full breakdown and they can take me to court if they wish but I will first enlighten them that they will have to explain to the Court precisely what ther charge was for and their justification for any action they might take. The company is Close Premium Finance, by the way

Anybody? So I know whether or not to tell them to stick it???

Hi Folks Does the same apply to insurance companies as to banks with regard to unlawful charges? I mean, I had a direct debit on an insurance premium unpaid because of insufficient funds but this time it wasn't the bank that levied the unlawful charge but the insurance company are trying to charge a £30 'administration charge' and are threatening to withdraw cover and/or demand the whole outstanding year's premium if the monthly charge plus the £30 aren't paid. Anybody got any experience of this and have I got any comeback if they cancel the policy or get on their high horse in any other way? Cheers Andy

Funny thing - the account's still open and I've heard nothing more...