Thanks Andy - although not what I wanted to hear Am I right in thinking this is why they have invented the KFI doc from 2006? - even though the t &cs have altered from the original? Would it be worth pushing them for a copy of the TN or DN (Nov 2011 I think) or are these irrelevant because of the above? If she has been shafted by this KFI doc - then what would you say her best course of action is? She has acknowledged saying she is going to defend and they have given her an extension until a couple of weeks (this was for the arrival of docs from CPR31.14). Is it normal practice to offer a f&f and pay in instalments? Or is she just best to attend court with an I&E and offer what she can afford each month - which won't be very much as she is a single parent. Apologies for all the questions - but it's always easier to put your own neck on the line when decision-making than someone elses :-/ Thanks Foxy

Hi everyone I've found another letter that I think refers to this matter (got to check the ref nos). It is a letter from Opus sent to my solicitors (at the time) and they (Opus) have sent a copy to me. It states that they cannot find my terms and conditions document. Can someone please advise if these docs will actually help me at all? as I am reading on the forum and some say no agreement=not enforceable = no judgement - then others are saying that they failed on this point (no agreement) in court. I have been through the mill today and can't think straight Would anyone be kind enough to help me draught a letter to these people? Think I need to sleep. Foxy

I know M1 - it's very hard to tell from posting the docs up on here - they are very much blurred in a lot of the text. The KFI doc is slightly better than the T&Cs one. Foxy

M1 - as you can now see from the docs I have posted - as I said in my previous post - you can just about make out this very small part of the T&Cs doc - but it is very much blurred at the top and bottom - particularly on the left hand side and top right. Also for the KFI doc on the bottom left. Foxy

I have also noticed that on the 'illegible T&Cs' doc - you can just about read that the minimum payment is £5 or 3% of the balance (whichever is greater) and on the KFI doc it is £5 or 2% - shouldn't these be the same? Also the card number on the a/c statements(until April 06) they have sent and the one on the application form when it was accepted are exactly the same - but then the card number changed!!. On the 'KFI' doc there is no a/c number or card number stated either - and where the surname is 'this is very illegible - someone has written her correct surname at the side of it - very strange. Foxy

Right - here goes - I hope they're ok as I have a new laptop and have hopefully figured it out!! Thanks Foxy

Yes no problem Andy. Will get onto that now - bear with me Foxy

Thanks for your reply Andyorch Does the key financial doc info have to be the same as in 1998 when she signed the application form? What about the t&cs doc and some of the Application form being illegible? She also has not signed under the second statement on the KFI doc - does this make a difference? "I understand that I am purchasing the product selected above on credit provided by you and that the terms relating to the credit for the product(s) can be found in this agreement" Do you think there is anywhere to go with this? Thanks Foxy

Thanks M1. Foxy

I might try Ford's first (& free!) option of sending them a letter pointing out that they have no reasonable grounds to bring the case to court without an agreement and inviting them to discontinue - enclosing a copy of my letter. Worth a try! Foxy

Thanks M1 - is there a template letter for the illegible agreement T&Cs sent and for missing docs from the CPR 31.14 request? Foxy

Yes Ford - 1999 I think

Ford - no they didn't send a reconstituted version. Good news - I think - though. I have had a good search through all my old correspondence and found a letter dated 15th Nov 2010 from Citibank. It says with ref to my request for a copy of my c c agreement pursuant to sect 78 of CCA etc etc..... They apologise for the delay in responding and regret to advise me that although they have attempted to locate the document they have not been successful. Therefore they are enclosing a cheque for £1 which represents the fee I paid in relation to the request. They shall continue to search their records with a view to providing me with it f.o.c. In line with recent OFT guidance my cc a/c is therefore not enforceable. 'Enforceable' is a legal term meaning that the lender is not entitled to commence legal proceedings against you for recovery of outstanding sums. However you should continue to pay any amounts due as your contract with us is not void....blah blah. CB - I have read the link - which was very useful - many thanks for that However, I have a few questions - When do I bring this letter into the equation? Do I send it with my AQ - will it stop it going to court? Surely they need the actual agreement on which their case is based? How do I use this letter to my best advantage? If I send it with my AQ - will the court realise that they can't enforce anything as CB didn't comply with my request? or do I amend my defence and apply to have it struck out? - as I am still waiting (they are still looking for) the alleged agreement for Morgans to forward onto me 'in due course'. Your help and guidance would be much appreciated guys as always. Thanks Foxy

Hi everyone I have received an AQ - but don't know at this point what I need to put on it - more research needed I think !! I have discovered today the draft document that the solicitors were drawing up against Citibank in March 2009. They requested a copy of the agreement and never received it - neither did I - so I believe I put the account in dispute. Are they still able to proceed/enforce/sell the debt on when the account is in dispute?? They were also in breach of my CCA 78? request as I never received anything. I am going to have a good look for the letter they sent saying they cannot find the agreement and returning my cheque for £1 (I am sure it was this company)!! Will this help with my case? Thanks as always Foxy

Hi I am in the same boat and when I called NCC they advised me the fee was £80!! So I sent a cheque with my N244 and they have cashed it - so is it £45 or £80?? I received a letter saying it had been allocated to my local court. I didn't think that you could apply for a set aside without a hearing Foxy

Anyone?? Thanks Foxy

Hi everyone I am posting this on behalf of my sister. She has received a NCC claim form from LTSB/Morgans - dated 30th March- but she didn't receive it until about 2 weeks later!! Anyway, I advised her to send a CPR 31.14 - which she did. She has acknowledged it on MCOL. The history is that her and hubby split and she can barely afford to keep the house on and is left with little or no disposable income each month. Thay have set every single DCA on her that you can think of and she was making herself ill with worry. I told her to negotiate with them - she offered them a small payment each month of what she thought she could afford (the family does help her out also) - and they continuously refused to accept it- so she stopped paying it altogether as she was struggling to afford it. She has received her reply to the CPR request and they have sent her:- Copy statements. An Application form (dated 1998) + a seperate sheet with the allleged T & Cs (illegible) A form that says 'Key Financial Info' - this is stamped with the date of March 2006 on it - but she can't remember ever signing anything other than the App form back in 1998. On this form a lot of the details are barely legible (including her surname!!) . Where her signature is it says "This is a credit agreement regulated by the CCA 1974. Sign it only if you want to be legally bound by its terms". Then underneath her signature it says (and there is also another space for a signature). "I understand that I am purchasing the product selected above on credit provided by you and that the terms relating to the credit for the product(s) can be found in this agreement" There is no signature here. They have failed to send the requested DN or TN!! I have looked but can't find a link to the letter re:- illegible docs provided. What does this 'Key Financial Info' doc mean? as my sis says she hasn't signed it!! They have agreed to give her an extension so I have faxed this to NNC today for her. Any help would be great guys as I already have my own to deal with but I can't leave her to sort it as she will just make herself ill again and they will continue to make her life a misery. Foxy

I was paying the £1 per month as I put the account in dispute as they couldn't provide the agreement - then they sold it on In their docs they sent with their reply to my defence they sent a copy of a letter saying that Cabot now have the debt - notice of assignment? but before that apparently a company called Opus had it. I don't recall getting a default notice CB - but will have a good look in my old paperwork - just glad I didn't throw it away as I was planning to. I am also going to look for the letter that Citi sent with the £1 cheque saying they couldn't find the agreement. Would it be worth sending this in to add to my defence? Many thanks as always for your advice and support Foxy

Wow well done Debs - bet that was a shock for them!! I know who the OC is now - they managed to find it to put in their reply to my defence. I am almost sure that when I made a CCA request to the OC they sent me a cheque for £1 and said they couldn't locate it. I just can't get my head around why they would start these proceedings without any form of agreement being in their grubby little paws. I just don't know how long I should leave them to 'search' for the agreement or what action to take (if any) in the meantime. Foxy

Thanks for your replies guys. I agree Heathrow - they are abusing their position. I opened this Citicard a/c in 1999 and made my last pt (of £1) in 2010 when I put the account into dispute as they did not provide me with my agreement. They also sent me a cheque for £1 - I'm sure it was with a letter saying they couldn't comply with my request. They have said in their reply to my defence that they will forward these docs in due course - but how long are they actually allowed to look for them?? What are my options? My head is spinning Anyone please??????????? Foxy

I have received a reply to my defence - it's long winded and tbh I haven't had time read it and thoroughly digest it yet - but they do say that they will let me have the 'requested' documents when they have located them. Can't wait!! Foxy

Thanks Heathrow. I am following your thread with interest. To be honest with you, I don't really want to waste £10 on a SAR as if this is a RBOS or Citicard debt then I had written confirmation that they can't find any agreement so they are unenforceable. If it goes to court then they are going to have to produce some kind of documents to evidence their case - so I think they have just issued the claim thinking that since 09 I have forgotten the OC and will stump up before court. Foxy

Well that's my application for set aside sent off recorded delivery - so fingers crossed. I have also requested an order for costs due to BCs actions. I attached several letters - 2 from OC - and also from 2 DCAs - these were both pre and post the so-called assignment - even though 2 of the DCA letters were after 14 April (when it was allegedly assigned to BC!!) Will have to sit tight now. Thanks for all your help and support guys. Foxy

Well, this is interesting!! I called Morgan solicitors and asked who the OC was in this matter. They said they didn't know and would have to wait for the paperwork - they said it was Cabot and then before that Opus (who, apparently, went bust) but could not tell me the OC!! Having looked through my paperwork (amounts etc) and on the POC it says Bank of Scotland - I am 150% confident that this is actually RBOS. A couple of years ago I appointed a solicitor to look into this and I came across a letter from them stating that they had enclosed a letter from RBOS admitting that they cannot find any paperwork (agreement etc) and that the debt is unenforceable but I should keep paying etc etc. Where does this leave me now?? I would have thought that the solicitors would have ensured that they had their paperwork in place BEFORE even issuing a claim. The lady I spoke to said that they WILL be going ahead with it blah blah blah. How long do I give them to produce the paperwork from my CPR 31.14 request? I sent this the beginning of February. Many thanks everyone Foxy

Thanks Debs - the lady I spoke to most recently was very helpful but the first man I spoke to was very abrupt and just kept saying to call BC. The lady said that I could put in my set aside app for the judge to consider awarding me my costs back and to claim the £80 for the set aside app. I suppose it can't hurt to ask!! - after all if they had written to the correct address then I wouldn't of have to faff about like this. Foxy