Thanks again BB. I think that is a good strategy. So is there anyone thayt can give me the exact details for the correct CPR number please?

Hi Loser4u I like that approach - thank you for your letter and the contents are noted! Excellent as that is exactly the way they responded to my complaint letters at the beginning and then took nearly three years to come back to me. Do you think the complaints process and the CPR request should be done at the same time or should I make them work first on giving me the relevant details for the complaint and then CPR them? Oh and just to clarify so I am in no doubt my question is - is the request for a CPR 31:14 the right one to make or is there another one? Thanks again for all your help! It is hugely apprecaited. Well its now 7 days since the date of their last letter and so we will see after tomorrow whether they are going to do now what they have stated categorically they are going to do so I may wait a couple of days before writing to them. It will be interesting to see what the next letter has to say. I dont want them to have the impression they have scared me into action but I think enough is enough now - time to fight back i think -

Thanks very much ScarletPimpernel. I totally agree with you - tedious is one word to describe them thats for sure and I can think of a few others that are not repeatable on a public forum. What got me concerned this time is that they have changed theoir language from "we may/possibly" etc to "Should we not hear from you within the time frame suggested this matter will be passed to our BANKRUPTCY DEPARTMENT for the immediate issue of a STATUTORY NOTICE under the insolvency act 1986" I take your point about them not taking me to court already and I can see the attraction of not responding but there is a part of me that wants to make things hard for them by going down the lets make them work a bit harder route.

Loser 4 u ., Nikki & Baby Bear Thank you all so much for your replies. I am really hacked off to put it mildly that they have now got very heavy and I think the time has come to give them as many problems as I can and I think I need some help from those that know a lot more than I do. I am definately in the mood to complain but my questions are to whom do I complain and do you have an example of a letter I can modify? I can of course write directly to these jokers but I want to give them as much work as possible now and I want them to send me eveything they have on file on which they intend to use against me. Can you please help me in this process? I asked in an earlier post if I should A) still ignore this - not an option now I think but I dont want to give them the impression they are scaring me! B) SAR them C) CPR 31.14 them D) Ask them very nicely to take me to court and let a judge decide on he legality of the case Do I take option B or C and if so what is the correct procedure? Very unhappy now. Many thanks again in advance.

Well I thought it was too good to be true. I think I need some help now chaps - what do I need to do from here I received a letter this morning from Connaught Collections which I note is a trading style of 1st Credit (or is it mary at the next desk?) "Dear sir RE IST CREDIT - Citifinancial £XXXX We have been instructed by 1st Credit Ltd - Citifinancial to recover this debt. You are invited to settle this account immediately or provide us with a good reason for non payment, within the next seven days. Credit Bureau data shows that you have sufficient assets to settle our debt. Should we not hear from you within the time frame suggested this matter will be passed to our BANKRUPTCY DEPARTMENT for the immediate issue of a STATUTORY NOTICE under the insolvency act 1986 Yours faithfully ENFORCEMENT DEPARTMENT Our company has the sole control of your account. Payment must be sent to this office. DO NOT PAY A DOORSTEP COLLECTTR without first gaining our authority. -0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0 Can anyone suggest what my next step should be please - do I continue to ignore them or ask to see everything they have on me on file? - if the latter option is the one to go for can you please give me an idiots guide to what I need to write to them and ask them for. Many thanks in advance.

Swiss Toni Thank you so much for your very encouraging post, which has come at a very good timing as I have received another threatening letter from 1st Crappy this morning. Its another "County Court Proceedings" one which states " I regret the sum remains outstanding, we now intend to issue possible Court Litigation against you. We are however prepared to offer you one last opportunity to settle your account at a VERY generous amount YOU PAY 70% WE PAY 30% Isnt that nice of them and at Christmas too - how thoughtful they are to offer me such a bargain at Christmas. They must be Christians to have such a generous heart at this time of year!!!!! This is now about the 4th " one last opportunity" they have given me. Laughable really. Well this has gone on the file with the rest of the other letters. On the business side things have accelerated forward since my last post and we now have moved to the point where we are looking like the contract I mentioned may even close by the end of the year. Detailed negotiations have taken place between my development partners and the funders we introduced them to and agreements have now been reached and we are working to a date of 31-12-10 for signing of the contracts and funding of the projects at which point we get paid!!!! We also have three other partners where we have signed contracts too and I just heard this morning that the term sheets for two of these projects for the funding are going to be issuied on Monday. So its all fingers, legs and arms crossed here at the moment as we steer the big ship of contract negotiation to its final destination. 1st Crappy are going to have to sing for their supper.

Thanks very much for that BB. I am sorry but how do I bump this? Not sure what that means. Also with respect to this threatened County Court action this is now the 6th Letter since August where they have threatened County Court action so I am minded not to do anything unless I get an actual Court date and then I will swing into action with the CPR's. I am tending to agree with a lot of people on here who have clearly stated that if 1st Crappy had my signed CCA they would have taken me to court long before now. From what I have read on this forum so far unless they have the actual original signed CCA I dont think they are going to take me to court. Even if they did I think I would have a very strong defence as from the very begnning they and Citi have not adhered to the correct way of doing things. Having now had time to mull this over I am not going to make any decisions until they show me the whites of their eyes. The last time I was taken to court over a financial matter (personal one not anything to do with CC's) the people taking me to court proclaimed to all and sundry that they were going to wipe the floor with me and sue me for thousands, however, on the day we went the judge threw them out as they had no case whatsoever. I had prepared a very detailed defence and as it was a contractual matter they stood no chance as they had broken my contract with them in so many places they stood no chance. So if this lot do take me to Court I will go there with a hugely well prepared case. This may all be academic in the New Year anyway as I had some very good news earlier today. I received an email saying that a company I have been working with for the last 12 months to try secure a huge contract for one of my parters have now agreed to the terms we have been discussing. This is excellent news and means that the legal teams now just have to agree the finer points of the T's & C's. As soon as the contract is signed we get paid and this would mean that we would be able to pay off all of our unsecured debt and pay off our house mortgage too and be totally debt free. If however this doesnt work out we just keep working hard to try to move forwards.

Well they are stepping it up now. 5 days after the last letter I have just received another "consider, potential and may" letter from my friend Mr Gavin Flynn headed "County COurt PRoceedings Dear Mr xxxxx We have now writen to you on numerous occassions in relation to the outstanding debt. We have no reason to believe that you have responded with sufficient information as to why the debt has not been paid. Unfortunately we have been left with no option but to consider potential County Court action against you. We do however still wat to help you avoid litigation and encourage you to take us up on one of yor options detailed below Option 1 Pay the account in full today Option 2 We may be in a position to offer you a substantial discount on the outstanding balance Option 3 Please fill in the attached income and expenditure with an offer of repayment that you believe to be reasonable and we will consider your offer. Please send in evidence to support your income in te form of a wage slip or benefits form in the pre paid envelope. If you are not able to complete one of the options above then we will be left with no option but to potentially issue county court proceedings that are detailed below Legal costs name in CC register blah bla blah Seizure of your assetts - charging order against my house for non payment [/b] My question now is should I A) still ignore this B) SAR them C) CPR 31.14 them D) Ask them very nicely to take me to court and let a judge decide on he legality of the case What do you guys think? My wife and I are both working very long hours and I have had a few 20 hour days recently in my business to try to keep it all together and its coming up to Christmas I really cant be doing with this. I am so tired both physically and emotionally and I dont like making decisions when I am like this. What is going to come first I wonder trying to earn enough money to buy the kids at least a couple of presents for Christmas day or deal with this bunch of low lifes - -mmmm let me think. I am a big strong guy but I did break down the other day in front of my 12 year old as he would love to have an xbox 360 for Christmas and I just had to say to him at the moment we just cant buy something like that. I know you are supposed to hold it together in front of the kids but it was just too much really. I am trying the best I can and I want the best for the family but I am not a magician. Thankfully our business is beginning to turn around and it is looking like we are going to have a good new year and I cant wait until I can pay off everyone we owe money to. Sorry guys for this but I need to have a strategy in place to go after this bunch - I dont run away from things but it is taking its toll.

Well another letter this morning along same lines but this time they have said We have written to you on numerous occassions in regards to your GOLDFISH BANK LTD account. However the debt still remains unpaid. If we cannot agree repayment terms then we will unfortunately be left with no option but to consider County Court proceedings to reclaim the debt. Please act now to avoid potential County Court proceedings We would like to help you avoid such proceedings and would accept the following pay plan ............ They then set out a Standing Order Mandate for £280.30 each month!!!! What a Joke! If I had £280 a month I would be paying more to all of my creditors. Also they dont seem to realise that to pay them this amount would be unfair to my other creditors! Does anyone know who Goldfish Bank Ltd are? I Googled this and it gave me an IFA in Windsor and goldfish loans and credit cards. I then did http://www.goldfishbank.com and it took me to the Barclaycard site. The letter clearly stated at the top CITI FINANCIAL EUROPE PLC but they then make mention of my account with Goldfish Bank Ltd. - very strange.

I too am in similar sitation with 1st Crud and if you want to have a laugh then grab a coffee (you wll need it ) and have a look at my situaton on my thread 1st Credit & LCS Battle They are like a dog wih a bone this lot and I have taken the advice of BB and others on this forum and have totally ignored them since about May. If you do read my hread you will see they have written loads of "we may take you to court" and "if we are successful" type of letters but having now spent a lot of time on this forum reading through other threads I am now convinced that they have no real chance of succeeding. I am thinking seriously about makingsome official complains to the other bodies reccommended though such as the OFT & TS because I did make a complaint to the F O about 1st Crud and Citi Financil but they were as much good as a choc freguard and didnt help at all.

Hi Count You have been very helpful to me on my post 1st Credit&LCS battle- so a big thank you to start with I too had a letter dated 01-09-2010 from LCS but it was just signed LCS solicitors with no name At the bottom of the letter it said that LCS was the legal division of 1st Credit. I then had a letter dated 15-09-2010 from DHS too from Mr Gavin Flynn Head of Colections who is also head of collections for 1st Crud! I think the suggestion made earlier about reporting 1st crud to the SRA is an excellent one and if enough people do this they should get the mesage. Do you know if there are any standard letters on his forum to use a starting point or can anyone suggest appropriate wording.

Oh well here's a new tactic - the phone rang today and when I answered it there was a recorded message from BT Text service and guess who had sent a text to the phone - you got it 1st Credit! Asking me to call them urgently! Number 07791025796. Cheeky monkeys!! Well I very quickly put a stop to that one. I called the number for BT's SMS Text Options Line 0800 587 5252. This allows you to control the tmes at which you can receive text messages that have been converted into speech. I just hit 5 and that prevents any texts from being received. You can also change the "curfew" times when texts are allowed. As I dont want these scummy whats its to contact me at all, I have just barred any texts full stop. I reported them once for harassing me on the phone and I suppose this is the only way they can try to get me to call them - pathetic.

Thanks Count Any thoughts on the fact that I never received a default notce from Citi and that one of their managers admitted on the phone that they didnt have a record of one being sent out to me? I didnt tape the conversation but I have kept written records of who I spoke to and when. If it did go to court would they have to prove it was sent to me? I am hoping that if this were to go to court I would have enough things against them to put up a good defence. I have spent a lot of time reading up on other threads about SAR & CPR 31.14 requests and I am sure that if they did take this to court they wouldnt be able to come up with the OCCA. Actually after having now read a lot of the posts my mind is much more settled and it does appear that 1st C are wasting a lot of time with cases they can never win because they will never be able to produce the correct documentation.

Thanks Count Orlok Unfortunately I havent kept any of the envelopes - I didnt realise I needed to - sorry. - heres what happened In Oct 2006 - i was accepted onto Citi Financials "reduced payment programme" paying £5.00 per month. In March 2007 I wrote to them again and increased the payments to £10 a month . I have a couple of letters on file from them agreeing to my payment proposals. I never missed any payments with them. On Friday 15/06/2007, I received a NOTICE OF ASSIGNMENT dated 11/06/07 on their headed notepaper although it looked like a photocopy as the logo was not coloured. I can scan this and put it up if needed but this is what it says. Dear Mr xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 11/06/2007 NOICE OF ASSIGNMENT ACCOUNT NUMBER XXXXXXXX CURRENT BALANCE £6,781.12 This letter is to inform you that with effect from the date at the top of this letter, under a written assignement we have assigned your contract to 1st Crdit (Finance) Limited of Hillgate House, 7th Floor, 26 Old Bailey, London, EC4M 7HW. This means that we have assigned to 1st Credit (Finance) Limited, the outstanding balance as at that date and all of our rights and interests in our agreement with you under the above account reference number. This letter to you is our formal notice to you of the assignment. From now on you must accordingly direct all payments due under the agreement as well as any correspondence and enquiries to 1st Credit Limited, the servicing company for 1st Credit(Financa) Limited at: Omnibus Building Lesbourne Road Reigate Surrey RH2 7JP Phone 08701642041 Although the assignement does not affect the terms of your agreement you should note that from now on, no variation, amendment, release of waiver of your obligation to make payment may be made or granted without the previous written consent of 1st Credit (Finance) Limited or 1st Credit on its behalf. After I received this letter I immediately called 1st Credit and they told me that not only had Citi assigned the outstanding balance but they had in fact sold the total debt to them. I then spoke to a manager at Citi, David Fell, on Sat 16th June who admitted that he had no record on my file of any letters being sent to me giving me notice that a defualt was going to be registered on my file. I then wrote to the Service Quality Director at Citi on Mon 18th June registering a formal complaint and confirming the discussion I had with 1st Credit and Mr Fell. I reminded them that I had a written agreement from them to make reduced payments. I also enclosed a copy of the letters from Citi agreeing to reduced payments. I also told them that had been in consultation with CCCS and the FOS and that I had raised a formal complaint against them. I asked for a full explanation why they had registered a default and asked for it to be removed from my credit file. - I never had an answer to these points. I then received a letter dated 18/06/2007 (one week after the letter from Citi) From 1st Credit introducing themselves to me and confirming that Citi had assigned the full outstanding amount to them and stating that the full amount was due immediately and that I shul mae payments to them not Citi. They also said that in acorsance with the DPA 1998 they would comply with any request for a copy of Personal Information about me that was held on their computer system if I sent them a request along with £5 for their admin fee!! After then coming onto this forum, I sent a couple of more letters reminding them that as my account was officially in dispute with Citi that if they attempted to recover a debt that is due this would be in contravention with the OFT guidelines. I also stated that as my account was in dispute with CF I did not cknowledge any debt to their company. I then asked for a true copy of my OCCA deed of assignement. I also gave them the official ref number for my FOS complaint. So even though 1st C have said to me that Citi have confirmed to them that they sent me a default notice, I have never received one from them. I keep all correspndence with all my creditors filed in chronological order so I have every letter from Citi and 1st C. Does the fact that one of Citi's managers admitted to me that they had no record of any letters relating to registering a default help me in any way?

Thanks loser4u - great explanation and I understand. What I am wondering now is if I write to Citi Financial and ask them for the default notice and also a SAR are they going to try to fob me off with the line that as they assigned the debt they have no obligation to deal with me. I love the fact that you suggested that they take you to court. If they go to court do they then have to bring the OCCA with them? I will write to Citi and ask them for the default notice and all the other stuff and post the default notice if and when it it arrives.

Good points Creditcardmug and I have taken the advice - my last letter to them was back in May and since then it has been them that has made all of the running and increasing of the threats. I am getting the point about them having me in court a long time ago if they thought that they could win. I dont intend to write to them unless I really have to, however forewarned is forearmed as they say and what I would really like to do is get them off my back once and for all.

Thanks Count orlok - I actuallly have the letter of assignment but no default notice - Seems they waste a lot of time on cases they dont have a lot of chance of winning. Are they hoping people will cave in without a fight?

Alf - I really like that approach - challenging them to take you to court and have it out with a judge. Love it - were you not a bit nervous that they would have taken you up on it though?

Brigadier - thanks very much for the explanation - sorry for being totally thick here but what is the reason I would ask for this SAR? I must be missing the proverbial obvious here? Also once I have sent this SAR if they then do send what they have what is the next step after that - A) if they send everything or B) if they say they havent got everything?

Brigadier - well that might explain why they are trying so hard to offer to "pay" 20-30% of my "debt" whilst at the same time threatening to take me to court.

Well the threatening letters from others havent arrived yet just 4 LEGAL PROCEEDING letters from 1st C

Thanks Brigadier - very interesting information - we have only had one letter from LCS and they seem to have passed this back to Mary on the desk next to Fred who we think is LCS.

Thanks very much Count orlok - I agree - I have never done the lottery but hae considered it a few times but ever wasted my money on it.

Loser 4 U - thank you so much for such a quick and detailed response. The threat to start litigation actaully started in August with a letter just headed LEGAL PROCEEDINGS and they said thethey intended taking laegal proceedings. On the matter of the default notice, I cant seem to see anywhere in the file where they have issued a specific default notice, however, when I raised this with 1st C in a letter earlier this year, they stated that "following a conversation with Citi Financal in June 2007, we were advised that a default notice had been sent to you the previous May" (which we never received). They also stated "we do not consider the matter of whether a default notice has been sent to you is relevant. Please can you explain why you believe it to be so? We note that the CCA states "service of a notice on the debtor or hirer in accordance with section 88(a "default notice") is necessary before the creditor or owner can become entitled by reason of any breach by the debtor or hirer pof a regulated agreement - a) to terminate the agreement or b) to demand earlier payment of any sum. We consider ther is no requirement to terminate your agreemen as we are solely clainming accrued arrears. Nor are we demanding earlier payment What they have issued are 2 Notices of assignment - one on the 11-06-07 and another one they sent though on the 05-11-2010. I have no idea why they have sent a second one three years after the first one. I havent asked for a DSAR - I dont know what this is sorry - Can you give me an explanation of what this is and why I need to request it? In one of my letters earlier in the year I did state that the account was in disupte and that the agreement was unenforceable and their reply was "We are aware that the copy agreement was not supplied within the specified time period, however, on provision of this document, the debt has once again become enforceable and therefore your assertion that this debt is "irredeemably unenforceable" is incorrect". They also state that the "creditor is not obliged to make an actual photcopy of the agreement and that because they have sent me what is supposedly a true copy of my agreement, they have complied with the obligations of the law. As the copy of the agreement and Statement of Account has been supplied, our obligations regarding your request for information under section 78 of the CCA 1974 have been fulfilled and the default no longer continues". They also stated "We advise that your request for us to remove your data from either our records or the credit reference agencies is unjustified as you have a debt tha is due and payable with no clear substantiated dispute". So as someone else stated earlier we are in a bt of a tennis match - they claim they have fulfilled their obligations and that there is no clear substantiaed dispute and as such I owe them the money. As I mentioned earlier I did ask them if they could confirm if my original request for information was complied with within the statutory legal limits an they have actualy admitted that it was not but they maintain that this makes no difference to the fact that the debt is still now due even though it took over three years fro them to produce what they claim is my agreement and as they have supplied this document this means that I dont have a substantiated dispute . - what they suplied could have been anybodies agreement.