Well the vanquis one is December 2015 but it should be at least a year earlier but I think 2. I dont have any of the statement ts or anything like that and because lowell bought it my credit file doesn't show payments made etc. The shop direct one is January 2016 but again I know it should be earlier but don't have anything to back that up. And im conscious about drawing attention to myself before im ready if you know what I mean

Hi, I have 3 outstanding defaults on my account. One is being removed because I won a court case, I didnt owe the debt. The other 2 are owned by lowell and I did owe to these accounts. One is vanquis and is registered at about £1800 on my credit file, the other is shop direct, the default was registered at £150, but the letters they send me are saying I now owe 400, presumably through their charges. Im pretty certain that the vanquis debt will be made up of all charges, if not mainly charges, and likewise with the shop direct one, in fact with that I'm 99% certain that i paid significantly more charges than the 150 they defaulted me for. The shop direct one ive had an offer from lowell to clear the balance for 220. Now I know that removing defaults is nigh on impossible but I could really do with getting rid of them. Is it worth sending them a sar and trying to argue if they don't have the right documents? Or is that just wishful thinking on my part? Failing that I need to settle the defaults for something else I'm doing, they need to show as settled. So, should I just pay the 220 to lowell for the shop direct debt or should I go back to shop direct and argue the charges? Likewise with the vanquis debt should I argue the charges and try to get the balance lowered at least? I don't have the money available to pay the full amount for the vanquis debt and I also really object to paying it off as it is all charges, and lowell paid virtually nothing for it. . Id really appreciate any advice, I really don't want to stir the hornets nest if i wont achieve anything, or at least if im better off waiting until I have the money available to clear both before I contact them. Ive seen in loads of threads people talk about getting the penalty charges removed from vanquis and shop direct, but ive searched and searched the forum and can only find stuff on bank charges..

I am by no means an expert, in fact quite the opposite but my case was dismissed last week, it was dismissed based on my skeleton argument in 5 minutes, and you advice is quote the law itself, especially relating to defaults, the judge read the quotes from the paperwork and used that. She didn't know ow what a default notice was so it's worth spelling it out to them. Does that make sense?

Yeah I was really worried about spelling things out to the judge, i thought it'd be like telling them their job, but she was reading the law as in their ws it was all quoted, she mainly used that and a little from my skeleton. Next time, and there may well be a next time as I have 2 more to sort out, but I'm not as sure about those that I don't owe them, this one I knew the balance was cleared. Anyway next time I will have absolutely everything quoted.. Is there a way of dealing with these before they get to court? Or is it just wait for them to take further action?

Thank you! Here's how it all went.. I got on and my case wasn't assigned so we had to wait, the usher was really lovely at first and helpful. After their rep arrived, she was all over the usher, really ott and gusty, and from them on the usher only spoke to their rep, who then came and told me and I found that quite odd. After my case was assigned i handed my skeleton argument to their rep and she very loudly said I couldn't submit any more evidence as it had to be in 14 days before. I explained that I understood that but id been advised to hand it in and it wasn't further evidence, there was nothing that wasn't in the ws already and that it was just my skeleton argument. She still objected and I went to hand mine into the usher and to asked her to put it in my file but their rep was still very vocal and complaining. The usher eventually agreed to add it to my file but said she would make it absolutely clear to the judge that their rep had raised an objection and didn't want it seen. Their rep then went off and was sat in the corner scouring the document, taking photos of it and texting etc and making notes, then she went into a private room on the side to make phone calls, she'd been making phone calls all morning so I know that she went in there to make phone calls about my case and it made me wonder if spelling out my arguments up front had been a good idea or not. We eventually went in to see the judge and she had everything out on her desk including my skeleton argument which she'd obviously been using. She read the details of the case for the tape, then asked us to go to point 19 of their witness statement. She asked their rep where the notice of Assignment was. Their rep had loads of notes that she'd just made and said that the law didn't actually require a notice to be sent, just one to be written. The judge said nice try but that's ridiculous of course it needs to be sent. She was reading the law directly from their witness statement and from my skeleton argument. The judge said the noa did have to be sent and their rep said it had been, and that the proof was that the woman who wrote their ws had signed a statement of truth and that was evidence enough. The judge asked if she'd actually been the one to send it, and it sounded like if she had she may have accepted their word, but as their rep said no i doubt it the judge said that the noa was necessary. She said if id not questioned it in my defence and ws it would be assumed to have been received but as I had said id not received it they had to physically prove that they had. Their rep tried 2 or 3 times to get it adjourned so they could get one but the judge said no, the hearing was set for today and theyve had months to get it together. She asked their rep some more and after a while the rep said they just don't have one, the judge clarified that lowell don't actually have a noa and the rep agreed. She had pages of notes on my skeleton argument that she must have made with her phone calls and she'd obviously been told to try and blag it and if that failed to try to get it adjourned, but as she buckled and admitted that there wasn't one they must have been planning to create one! the judge then said to me im sorry to jump straight to this issue, there are clearly a number of points here that would need to be discussed at length, but that she wanted to jump straight to the notice of Assignment because it underpins the rest and if there wasn't a noa there wasn't a case, therefore case dismissed. She then told their rep off for trying it on with it.. Oh one other thing, after she'd ruled she asked if there was anything else I thought id push my luck and ask about the default, i knew she couldn't do anything but thought it wouldn't hurt to try anyway, I said it's damaging to me was there anything she can do, and the judge said what's a default? I explained a little but she didn't know what one was, she then asked their rep who also didn't know what a default was.. it really quite shocked me.. Then when we came out their rep asked if id understood everything and was ok. Then she went out of her way to tell me that she didn't work for lowell. I said yeah I know they rent solicitors, and she said yeah well thats what I am but I definitely do not work for them. She was almost apologetic for representing them...

I won! Thank you all so much for all your help. I'm just so relieved right now. I'll update with details later on, but in short it was allowed 90 minutes, but the whole thing was over in about 5 without me saying a word based on the arguments id submitted before!

Thank you. I just want it over with now

I'm at court and it looks like I have a long wait as no judge has been allocated yet. A solicitor has turned up for them too which i wasnt actually expecting. Im very nervous, is there any last minute advice anyone can give me? Ahhh please help, we've just been allocated a judge so ive handed in my skeleton argument but their representative has said that I can't use it because it had to be handed in 14 days prior. Ive said ive been advised to do it anyway and then shes argued with the usher and got the usher to agree that i cant use it. Theyve taken it anyway and will let the judge decide apparently did I d9 the right thing?

Draft number 2... SKELETON ARGUMENT As the defendant in this case, I wish to respectfully make the following points in my defence: 1. I had an account with this company, and when I fell into financial trouble, I made an arrangement to pay the outstanding balance. The final payment was in November 2014 and at that date the account was clear. I have not since that final statement received any correspondence whatsoever regarding this account until I received the claim form in July 2016. I sent off a CPR 31.14 request for further information from the claimant. Though this was received, I have received no response from them at all with any of the documents. I also sent a Section 78 request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 requesting a statement of account. Again, this was not complied with therefore the claimants were in default of my request. 2. Through my defence, my CPR 31.14 and my Section 78 request I have repeatedly raised the need for the Claimant to substantiate the claim by way of itemised statements which detail all transactions on the account and illustrate how the claim amount was arrived at. The statement of account that was received along with the witness statement, as opposed to following my previous requests, were vague and confusing and there is no credible response as to how the various amounts have been arrived at. In the unlikely event that I was mistaken and there was an unpaid balance on the account, the crude account summary as well as the claim management system screenshot from the claimant contains differing amounts: • The claim management system screenshot states a default balance of £161 • The amount claimed for is £233 • The value of the goods allegedly ordered after the account was cleared was for £149 There is no explanation as to why these differences exist. Furthermore the account summary also contains the amount of £180 for ‘charges’ on the account. These would very likely have no legal basis and are for more than the default balance of £161. In summary, the claimant have not satisfactorily complied with my CCA and CPR requests, nor have they been able to clarify by way of an itemised list how the alleged balance was derived, or the legality of the charges applied to this balance. 3. The Claimants’ refer within their Particulars of Claim to their Notice of Assignment regarding this debt. I did not receive any such correspondence from them. A copy of the Notice of Assignment was requested within my CPR 31.14 request, which was not complied with. It was again asked for within my defence and this was not sent. Furthermore the Claimant refers to the Notice of Assignment at length within their witness statement but they have not included that within their disclosed documents. Consequently the claimants have not complied with S136(1) of the Law of Property Act 1925 as they did not express in writing notice of their assignment. 4. Under CCA 1974, Sections 87,88 a default notice in the prescribed form must be served, specifying the nature of the alleged breach, as well as outlining what action is required to remedy it and the date before which that action is to be taken. If this notice is not complied with a default can then be issued. I have never received a default notice, nor was one produced following my Section 78 request, or within the disclosed documents. It was however referred to within the particulars of claim with no substantiation. 5. In conclusion, it is vehemently denied that this debt exists. The claimants have not been able to substantiate the claim, they haven’t been able to clarify how or why the balance has been derived therefore prove that this debt exists. The Claimants did not comply with my s. 78 request. The claimants are in breach of S136(1) Law of Property Act 1925 as they did not express notice of assignment in writing. The claimants are also in breach of Consumer Credit Act 1974 section 87 (1) as a default notice was not served. Consequently as the debt cannot be proven it must be inferred that the debt does not and never has existed. There is no outstanding balance. The Claimant has been unable to provide documentation to prove otherwise, therefore I respectfully request that the court dismiss this claim.

REALLY REALLY URGENT, PLEASE COULD SOMEONE HAVE A LOOK AT THIS FOR ME? I know there are bits, probably most that need rewording which I am attempting again now, but this evening didn't go to plan so this is draft 1 of my skeleton argument which i need to rely on in the morning for court.. SKELETON ARGUMENT As the defendant in this case, I wish to respectfully make the following points in my defence: 1. I had an account with this company, and when I fell into financial trouble, I made an arrangement to pay the outstanding balance. The final payment was in November 2014 and at that date the account was clear. I have not since that final statement received any correspondence whatsoever regarding this account until I received the claim form in July 2016. I sent off a CPR 31.14 request for further information from the claimant. Though this was received, I have received no response from them at all with any of the documents. I also sent a Section 78 request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 requesting a statement of account. Again, this was not complied with therefore the claimants were in default of my request. 2. Through my defence, my CPR 31.14 and my Section 78 request I have made repeatedly raised the need for the Claimant to substantiate the claim by way of itemised statements which detail all transactions on the account and illustrate how the claim amount was arrived at. The statement of account that was received along with the witness statement, as opposed to following my previous requests, were vague and confusing and there is no credible response as to how the various amounts have been arrived at. In the unlikely event that I was mistaken and there was an unpaid balance on the account, the crude account summary as well as the file log from the claimant contains differing amounts: • The claim management system screenshot states a default balance of £161 • The amount claimed for is £233 • The value of the goods allegedly ordered after the account was cleared was for £149 There is no explanation as to why these differences exist. Furthermore the account summary also contains the amount of £180 for ‘charges’ on the account. These would very likely have no legal basis and are for more than the default balance of £161. In summary, the claimant have not satisfactorily complied with my CCA and CPR requests, nor have they been able to clarify by way of an itemised list how the alleged balance was derived, or the legality of the charges applied to this balance. 3. The Claimants’ refer within their Particulars of Claim to their Notice of Assignment regarding this debt. I did not receive any such correspondence from them. A copy of the Notice of Assignment was requested within my CPR 31.14 request, which was not complied with. It was again asked for within my defence and this was not sent. Furthermore the Claimant refers to the Notice of Assignment at length within their witness statement but they have not included that within their disclosed documents. Consequently the claimants have not complied with S136(1) of the Law of Property Act 1925 as they did not express in writing notice of their assignment. 4. Under section 87(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, prior to a default notice being served a default warning letter detailing ways that the default can be resolved must be issued. Following this, if the account isn’t put right a Default Notice must be served. This was referred to in the particulars of claim, however I did not receive either. A copy was requested within my CPR 31.14 request, however this was not complied with. The Claimant does not mention the default notice, or the default warning letter within their witness statement, nor did they include a copy of one within their disclosed documents. 5. In conclusion, it is vehemently denied that this debt exists. The claimants have not been able to substantiate the claim, they haven’t been able to clarify how or why the balance has been derived or that this debt exists. The Claimants did not comply with my s. 78 request. The claimants are in breach of S136(1) Law of Property Act 1925 as they did not express notice of assignment in writing. The claimants are also in breach of Consumer Credit Act 1974 section 87(1) as they did not serve a default notice or a warning of default. Consequently as the debt cannot be proven it must be inferred that the debt does not and never has existed. There is no outstanding balance. The Claimant has been unable to provide documentation to prove otherwise, therefore I respectfully request that the court dismiss this claim.

Thank you. If i post my skeleton argument would you take a look please? It'll be about 8 or clock before I can do it

Tha k you for that sham x No, I had the account, got i to some financial difficulties and made an arrangement to pay, and i paid it off. I found out my final statement saying it was clear. I then heard nothing from anyone u til i received the claim form saying goes i owe 233. Checked my credit file and I was defaulted for 161. Now theyre claiming 325 including costs. I genuinely know nothing of this extra so it came as a shock. I made all the requests for do u mentioned and they sent nothing until this within their witness statement which still doesn't refer to a default notice never mind include a copy. They do state that sent a notice of Assignment to but they haven't included one and i certainly never recieved one. They have included a statement which states 149 of goods were ordered after I cleared the account, but I thought the account was closed. Then on top of that the statement says there's 180 of charges on there, which if they did win thats more than the amount I was defaulted for in the first place. So I want to dispute the fact that there's any balance on there at all but their statement says there was so I don't know what I can say about that. Then there's the charges but I don't know how to attack that, if indeed I can at all? Then there's the notice of Assignment, default warning letter and default notice itself

I'm still struggling writing this skeleton argument. Im an educated woman but this whole court thing is so far out of my comfort zone i feel almost illiterate. From what im reading it seems that the whole thing really depends on the judge you get and whether they choose to take notice of the laws surrounding this. Is a skeleton argument necessary? My points have mainly been raised already in my ws. Or should I do one?

What do you mean by falsehoods? Have I got loads of it wrong?

Can i ask another couple of questions please.. I've been reading and reading and reading and now im getting confused and need to make sure I've got this right... So my section 78 request, because they've not complied theyre in default and therefore shouldn't have been able to bring it to court? The fact theyve not provide enough the default means it wasn't ever sent and thats against the law so they weren't even allowed to chase me for the money never mind bring it to court? The skeleton argument, that's just for me and I don't have to hand that in to the judge or anything? How do I lay it out and word it? Does it need to be very formal as the legal letters? I know their solicitor will try to tie me in knots and I need to be really confident with what I have and that ive got it right. Can I say that within the cca requests i requested an itemised statement including details of all charges etc? Because they haven't sent those either. Or can I only argue the lack of Default? Also, what's the thing with charges? I've read on loads of threads people saying claim back the charges first, why are they not legal? And how can they be reclaimed if they're in the credit agreement? What happens if I win? I don't owe this money, ive not ordered anything after I cleared the balance therefore I cant owe it. God knows where their Iford has come from. But if i win can i have the default removed? If i do win and the judge asks me about my costs, what do I say to that? If i dont win do i pay in court for it to avoid the ccj? I read somewhere that that resets the clock on the debt, is that right that it will then last another 6 years? Theyve added £93 on already to the amount they say I owe, is that their legal charges and can they be removed? Can the £180 charges that are on their statement be refunded?

Right ill read some more. My other points are that on the last page, the figures don't add up for what they say I owe. And they didnt send any of the documents I asked for woth the cca request and stuff. Is the lack of Default Notice my biggest and best argument?

Oh. Well thats ok then. Thank you. What do I do now? Do I have to draft an argument to use? Will I have to quote any laws to the judge?

I noticed that too. Ive never received one though and lowell haven't printed one either at my cca requests before or with this stuff. Nor like Andy said have they mentioned it. Will that go against me?

Sorry its taken so long, I was getting so wound up about the whole court thing that I sort of tried to not to think about it for a few days. I've uploaded the witness statement as suggested, but I've not included all of the credit agreement as it was pages and pages long and just the usual stuff. Court on Thursday now, any help would be massively appreciated lowell WS.pdf

Well done, that's fantastic! Does that mean that neither you nor their solicitor attended?

Yeah I can post it up but it'll be morning before I get chance to go on the scanner. Im not sure how to redact my personal information from a pdf though. It won't harm me if they see ive posted it on here will it? We'll thats one part of my defence as i see it now, i thi k my defence is 1 that they've never sent a default notice, warning letter for a default or notice of Assignment to me. Ive never received any and theyve not included any with their witness statement either 2 they didn't respond to my cra letters or 31.14 requests. 3. The itemised statement amounts don't add up at all. The amount they say I owed is 85 more than the itemised statement showed i owed. I have proof that it was at 0 just before these random extra items were added. Theyve added their 100 fees on top of that. As they've added their extra fees will they go for additional costs as well as that in court?

Can I check as well, they sent me a screenshot of their account for me with shop direct which has the basic details. They haven't sent me a default notice or letter threatening or warning of a default notice. Is this a valid argument in court? It's one of the two things I'll be relying on

Thank you for that I hadn't read the last bit and that's really useful. I've read about them asking for a private chat at first, and that they do it to try to get you to admit you owe it. Mine isn't statute barred, am I still ok to say no to speaking to them? I don't want the judge to think I'm being unreasonable

I've been reading loads, all the threads i can.. do I have to hand in any more? I've seen mention of a supplemental witness statement and a skeleton argument, do I need those in my case? And can anyone tell me what actually happens in court? I think it's the not knowing what to expect that scares me most. Ive not read any posts where peo0le say it how it happened, just that it did if that makes sense.. That and being up against a solicitor who's experienced this loads and knows all the laws off the top of their head. I think theyll try and wrap me up in knots..

Ah lol ok.. So the court isnt likely to take notice? What do I need to do now please?