Kinger122

 

This post is VERY important confirm it is read.

 

Before vents are fitted I think you will need to alter the boiler flue by having a "Plume Kit " fitted due to the position of the vents.

I'm not a Gas Safe Engineer.

 

When the boiler was fitted there were no vents. So get the boiler fitter back and check.

Yes, I have read that. Does it mean the flue will need to extend away so that the fumes don't enter into the roof cavity?

This is all on the assumption that the roofer will do all the required work. Would it not be better for me to let the roofer "repair the roof" and then raise all these issues after the building inspector inspects the roof. I know this roofer is going to cut corners constantly with my job and I want someone else to do it ideally.

He also said in court the only thing he was willing to do was to repair the flashings, as he feels that there is nothing else wrong with the roof and that it is "lovely." So I am almost certain he is going to refuse to do all the work.

No the Building Inspector can't "Pass" it. Unless you "agree" to the 100 errors..... I don't think so !!!!

 

"Use it on his web site"...... Are you sure..

 

Only if Ray Charles and Stevie Wonder are the only viewers.

Hahaha that's the first time I've laughed in a while about this roof headache

 

Don't understand why architect speced. "Rockwool quilt and not Celotex sheet but that is his call.

Did he quote 50mm air gap between tilers sheet and insulation ?

No he didn't. I copied everything from the plans and notes.

If there is anything else I can do in the meantime, let me know and I'll get straight on it.

I am almost certain the tile vents are needed. I will probably have to wait till monday to ring the architect. So what does this all mean then? The building inspector cannot pass the roof can he?

Unfortunately at court the roofer knew more than me about what a roof should be, and lied saying the roof was fantastic and that he was going to put it on his website. The judge didnt have a clue how to do a roof so took everything he was saying as truth.

I also found this link regarding the tiles. It talks about verge tiles. Should they have been used?

http://www.forticrete.co.uk/media/336839/centurion_fixing.jpg

I understand what you are saying about "fouling the windows" at the correct pitch. However, what would have stopped the roofer from making a continuous flat section along the length of the roof coming say, 50cm from the back wall. Effectively increasing the pitch of the roof and having a combination of a flat section and pitched roof. Basically like the flat sections around the window but on a bigger scale. I hope you understand what I mean. I cannot say how grateful I am for you help so far.

From what I understand about the roof construction instructions, there must be vents at the edges of the roof (eaves) which they have filled in with concrete, and also under the soffit, along the entire length. Unfortunately I do not understand all the words.

Is this building inspector pretty incompetent if he has not noticed all these flaws. You haven't even seen my roof in person and look at all the points you have raised. I am just worried this inspector could pass the flawed roof, making me liable to pay this company and having years of headache with this roof. I am feeling like I wish I had never started this extension in the first place.

Hi kinger122

So each piece of lead overlaps the next by 100mm minimum.

Did you get the tile overlap ?

What does the drawings say about "Roof ventilation" ?

 

The only way to achieve 15 degrees is to lower the brickwork on the front and side elevations.

You can't raise the roof at the abutment to the house..... It would "Foul" the windows.

 

Yes I'm surprised he has not "blamed" the Bricklayer. That said he should have checked it would work by fixing the "Wall plate" to the main house

and the first rafter. Check the degree of pitch and point out the error.

 

You mentioned in a post above that you "think you would have won the case if you had got an expert report".

I think you are right but the fact remains that I can't see how any insurance co . is going to accept this roof with all the faults.

Hi sorry for the delay,

The lead flashing at the back (e.g in the photo where the bathroom window is) the overlap on the lead flashing varies from 100mm to 150mm depending on the place. I have only checked two of the overlaps.

The overlap on the tiles I could check was between 80mm and 100mm. (i checked three)

The plans say this about the roof:

Roof Insulation:

Breather membrane draped over rafters, 270mm rockwool insulation quilt to be laid over and between ceiling joists.

Roof construction:

New roof tiles to match existing. Use a proprietary eaves vent system comprising 10mm wide continuous strip ventilator secured to the outer edge of the 9mm supalux soffit board, running the entire length of the roof eaves. Eaves duct ventilation trays to the rafters to restrain the insulation quilt. 10mm HR gutters and 63mm RWPS with 19mm SW fascia boards.

The overlap is as the drawings say, 100mm

[ATTACH=CONFIG]50154[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]50155[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]50156[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]50157[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]50158[/ATTACH]

I'm interested to know what those plans say.

 

Reading a bit between the "lines".

It sounds like you got various "Trades" to do each stage. Ground workers for foundations, bricklayers, "sparky", plumber, plasterer etc.

I'm interested to know what those plans say.

 

Reading a bit between the "lines".

It sounds like you got various "Trades" to do each stage. Ground workers for foundations, bricklayers, "sparky", plumber, plasterer etc.

I am taking the pictures now. Yes I hired different workers to do the various aspects of the job. That cannot mean the roofer can shift the blame to others can it?

I'm making a list and i'll do it all tomorrow

Standard white plaster

Might have "Stopped" at the moment but that's because the rain has not been driven onto the short bit of wall.

Look closely at the lead work.....

 

The "Internal corner" is a "butt joint " with no over lap cover in the corner.

The "Stepped" flashing should continue round the corner and along the back wall.

Then the back wall lead goes over the top to give the cover.

 

Have you rung Velux to see if they provide a site visit service ?

Yes I rang them months ago when this whole thing kicked off and they only provided me with that email confirming the windows cannot be installed at less than 15 degrees. They would not do a visit. When you said for me to take pictures of the verges, do you mean the gable ends? I am not so up to speed with all the terminology, sorry.

Does the architects drawing show vents ?

 

The building inspector is there to look after you (the customer) and to make sure the building conforms to current Building Regs !!!

What is he "playing at" ?

I will dig out the plans tomorrow morning and get back to you. Thank you so much for your help so far. I really appreciate this. I cannot believe the inspector has not noticed all these things

The bit where you said the "house comes out" . Is that where the white down pipe is ?

 

Correction Black down pipe grey shoe.

 

Sorry

Yes, i should have been more specific near where the black drain pipe is. It was an extension done by the previous owner and extends further than the rest of the you

Kinger122. Did the architect do a set of drawings ?

 

There is NO vents !! In my opinion there should be 4 tile vents (mushrooms) and a continuous soffit vent.

 

There also needs to be a 50mm air flow gap between the ceiling insulation and the sarking felt (tilers sheet)

Check with the Building Inspector.

 

Looking at the photos I suspect the Velux windows may be set too low.

There are tiles not sitting flat around the veluxes .

 

The lead flashing along the main wall of the house. Can you get a "close up" of the overlap of one piece of lead to the next ?

One of the edge (verge) would be handy as well.

Yes the architect provided drawings for every aspect of my extension. I will try and get a closeup of the lead in the morning. If not then the afternoon. I am not sure if I mentioned this but the roof was leaking where the lead flashing meets the wall of the house in the far corner (the part where the house comes out slightly). Then all of a sudden the leaking stopped in that place. Nothing was changed and I have no idea why the leak stopped.

The building inspector initially said vents needed to be there but said nothing when the roof was done without them.

f16 seems to be doing a grand job of looking after you, but I'm just wondering if the judge actually saw any photo's, I can clearly see what the issue is now I've seen them, I imagine the judge was about as experienced as me in the roofing department!

The judge did see lots of photos. he asked the roofer if he thought anything was wrong with what was shown in the photos one by one. The roofer said they were all fine and nothing was wrong. The judge seemed to take his word for it. I am sure if I had paid the expert witness then things may have gone more my way, but I couldn't risk losing 700 pounds if I lost against this roofer.

The ceiling is vaulted inside. I hope those pictures show what you want to see. Let me know if you want any other specific areas and I'll take the pictures tomorrow.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]50126[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]50127[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]50128[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]50129[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]50130[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]50121[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]50122[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]50123[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]50124[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]50125[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]50116[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]50117[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]50118[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]50119[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]50120[/ATTACH]

Kinger122, Yes that would be good. Load up some of the lead flashing where the extension joins the house as well.

It's difficult to advise you without enough info.

the more Photos the better.

 

Is the ceiling "Vaulted" or "Flat" ?

I thought you meant if the company provided the calculations. I hired an architect who provided all the measurements and specifications which was accepted by building control

Hi Kinger122. I think Mike Hawk said wait for the court papers.

 

I've looked back on the thread but can only find a "Sketch", not a set of "Working Plans".

The "Vent tiles" will look like a "Mushroom" sticking out of a tile. Hence the nickname in the trade "Mushroom vent"

At the front edge of the roof (the eves) where the guttering is. The guttering is fitted to the "fascia board"

There is then a soffit board which is between the wall and the fascia.

This must have vents fitted to allow air up past the timbers and out of the "mushrooms"

No air circulation and the roof will "Sweat" and condensation will run down the under side of the Sarking felt.

 

IMHO. I can't see how this "roofer" is going to get this insured.

A lot of these type of insurance co.want to send out their own inspectors at various "Stages" to make sure the job is completed to a good standard.

 

How the hell can anyone see if the correct fixings (or indeed enough of them) were used on the rafters ?

Are there enough Plate ties ?....... The list is endless

That's why he won't get a proper insurance cert.

The sketch was all I was provided with, along with a written contract.

I don't think there are any vents at all. I can take pictures and upload them here if it will make things a bit easier? I can do that tomorrow afternoon.

Yes .It is a lump sum, and it may have an excess and or exclusions. ..

But those will be in the "Policy" not on the "certificate". If the roofer fails to inform the insurer of the errors and you make a claim they will reject it when they

discover the errors.

 

The problem with a low pitched roof is. A/ High winds driving the rain under the tiles. B/ Capillary action.

 

You need to get the roof tile "Spec. and fitting instructions" Not only the tile "Overlap" question ,but the lead flashing at the extensions abutment to the house may have to be increased as well.

If you look at the verge at each end of the extension you will be able to measure the "overlap" and likewise the lead flashing.

 

Do the drawings show "vent tiles and soffit vents ?

the contract was supplied with a drawing which states all materials to manufacturer specifications. The drawing just showed that there would be flat sections around the windows. There was nothing specifying the length or size of flashings or vent tiles. I am unsure if vent tiles have been installed

I purchases the windows and flashings and they are not rated to less than 15 degrees. I should be getting the courts deicision shortly and I will upload it when I get it. Shall I allow this roofer to "repair" the roof now or shall I wait?

If you look back to the first few pages of this thread I uploaded the contract drawing

Kinger122.

Ok so the Pitch is 13 degrees, and the tiles are suitable down to 10 degrees, but you may find that you have to increase the "Overlap" of the tile the more you decrease the pitch of the roof.

So find out the manufactures fitting instructions and check the "Overlap" is correct.

Velux can NOT be fitted under 15 degrees. (exception is the flat roof unit).

Fitting them on a roof pitch under 15 degrees will nullify their guarantee.

 

The judge has said that your roofer has to give you an insurance backed guarantee, after he has completed the work and then you pay him.

If your roofer doesn't tell the insurance co about the Pitch error" he will get insurance..... But it will be worthless because he has fitted materials not to manufactures spec.

If the roofer does tell the insurer; He either won't get insurance or the policy will be "loaded". The former being more likely.

 

When the roofer gives you the "Certificate" pay NOTHING until you have it in writing from the insurer that they are aware of the "pitch error" and it is accepted

with "No exclusions"

I think you will find they "cancel the policy".That then means you pay nothing to the roofer.

Take care.

F16

Thank you for your reply it has been really helpful. I called around other building control companies and they informed me that they would only pass my roof if an engineer had developed a way to prevent the risk of water ingress. I.E they made a workaround. Unfortunately they would not send me anything in writing.

This roofer provided no way in which he would do anything different which I am not happy with.

I thought about the same point regarding the insurance. They are always looking for ways to get out of paying and I wonder why they would want to insure such a risky roof. I have no experience of insurance backed guarantees. Am I right to assume that this would be a lump sum paid upfront which would have terms and conditions along with an excess and exemptions.(somewhat like a regular insurance policy)