This must be so stressful, but looks like it's going in the right direction now, Kinger must be so grateful to you f16, you have been great!

 

I also wondered how a judge could say a pitch of 13.5 would be okay, bet he/ she wouldn't accept anything less than was on the plans if it were theirs.

 

Hope the legal peeps are still following, gonna need them soon!

Hi Maddie. Yes very stressful. I cant wait for the end. I appreciate everyone's help

Kinger,

What was the "pitch" on the "architect" drawings before XYZ roof co. said they could "make it 15 degrees" by using 5" firings ?

 

Did the architect say that the original calculations would achieve 15 degrees ???

 

I can't access the dims. on the drawings

Sorry

F16

The architect only stated that the low pitch tiles should be used and that everything should be installed according to manufacturer specifications.

Kinger

Found something for you.

Search NFRC code of practice. 2 page doc.

Print it off. .... Interesting read.

Points 11 - 24. ... In particular point 21

 

Did the roof leak over Easter ?

I'll check that out thanks. No the roof did not leak as we didn't get any rain. Just a little drizzle today. The building inspector has also got back to me. He sent the following:

" Thank you for your email and telephone message. We will make arrangements to call out to inspect the roof and I suggest that I call with one of our principal surveyors, Mr xxxx. He is currently on leave this week but is due to return on Monday, at which point we should be able to confirm with you a day and time for the inspection."

Shall I sent the NFRC another email? I already did once and they didn't even send an acknowledgement. Its just an idea but I'm not too optimistic. It seems like they back their members even when they are in the wrong.

Is there anything else that can be done in the meantime or shall we just wait for the inspection. I hope you enjoyed your bank holiday F16.

Kinger

It can't make it worse !

You're just making sure you are "covered" and not issued with some "Worthless" bit of paper.

 

I would use his co. name.

Thanks. I'll use the company name and sent it now. Hopefully they will get back soon.

Hummmmm..... I don't know.

Would they contact him via the NFRC ?

 

I think they will just check that he is a member of the NFRC.

So shall I just provide the name of the company? It won't make things worse for me will it? I thought they may just check a database.

However I don't believe this company offers the guarantees as normal practice. This was only offered because of court, so it may be he has applied separately which might not come up on their system.

Do you reckon I should just risk it and sent the company name?

Kinger

What the architect is saying that when you changed it from "flat" ceiling to "vaulted" it should have been re- speced.

with regards to insulation (Which would be changed from Rockwool to Celotex).

The plaster board would be up graded from "standard" to "foil backed vapour barrier"

The Veluxs should also have a vapour barrier kit fitted.

A 50mm "Air break" between top of insulation and underside of "Tilers sheet"

 

So he is saying that the "verge vents" on the drawings should be there along with the soffit vents but other things should have been done as well.

That's great news then. I called the building inspector again and it went to voicemail. I left a message too. I can only assume that the roofer has told the inspector he must deal with him only; which if he did is bang out of order.

I received a response from the insurance company. I am not sure whether I should name the roofer. Here it is

" Good Afternoon,

Reference the above subject and your recent enquiry to GPI Ltd, which has been referred to ourselves as the administrators.

I will need more information on your contractor before I am able to release the relevant specimen policy, can you confirm the company name please?

Should you have any queries please do not hesitate to contact me.

Kind Regards,"

Just so you know that this has not been ignored. Is there some specific advice you or Kinger are looking for?

Thank you for you response. Mike_Hawk provided useful advice for which I am very grateful.

Kinger

 

Done a lot of "Digging and string pulling" tonight !!! Re. Your post # 279 (The Insurer).

 

Turns out the real "Insurers" (under writers) might be Lloyds of London (a syndicate of).

Unfortunately for your roofer my Father (now retired ) was a Member of Lloyds.

 

His advice was to Email [email protected] .uk

Say that you are "Planning" on having works done to your property using a NFRC contractor but would like to see the Policy before hand.

In particular "Fitting materials to manufacturers spec".

 

That "clause" will be in there.

That is why I said in a previous post "I will save that information (tile clips/overlaps, pitch for velux, down pipes from roofs above etc.) for later."

Hence why he won't get insurance !!!!!!

Don't let them know the work has been started.

 

Proper "Nailed" this sucker

Happy Easter.

F16

I am going to send the email now and I will let you know as soon as a receive a response.

I received the email from the architect. Does this answer what you were looking for F16?

1. Your roof has not been designed as a vaulted ceiling. Drawing 006 shows a traditional flat ceiling with timber joists and a 270mm rockwool insulation layer. However, to assist you if you have changed the design: - A breathable membrane does not necessarily remove the need for traditional ventilation. It can be used in this way, but measures must be taken to ensure that water vapour does not get into the unvented space.
   
2. Lateral restraint should be provided by steel straps at each gable, yes. This is normal practice and should have been included by the builder and checked by Building Control.
   
3. The literature I have for these tiles does not state this, and I’ve not seen a set of the fitting instructions. The normal solution would be to simply extend the downpipes down the roof slope to discharge into a hopper at gutter level on the extension (see attached photo).
   

I'd begin with 'Further to our exchange of correspondence at xxx.......'

 

Remove any reference to remedy/repair which you don't believe has an effect on water ingress

 

Temper the final paragraph, rhetoric may be frowned on if this ends up back in front of the judge.

 

Your reply should ideally appear to assist both sides and comply with the notice.

Thank you for your input. I've edited it and sent it this morning

Found it in Velux book. That is the one they told me would not work on a pitched roof.

I don't know why Velux would say that they weren't available. When I called them about these last year they said that it was possible to buy them. I imagine everyone must be busy over the bank holiday weekend. If I don't get any input from anyone else then i'll just send the email. You have been so helpful F16. Thank you very much.

I guess its just time to wait for the building inspector to get back in touch now.

I've also found this. F16 your views or anyone else's would be great. See page 62/63

"ATRIUM

It is possible to install VELUX roof windows in flat roofs (roof

pitches form 0° to 15°) to produce an atrium type effect. However,

this installation requires special cover and flashing components

that must be ordered as special products.

Cover and flashing components are based on a kerb construction

similar to VELUX Flat Roof Kerb ECX.

The kerb for the atrium is not part of the VELUX product programme

and should be made on site. Certain dimensions must be

respected, see drawings opposite.

The dimensions of the kerb vary depending on chosen window sizes

and frame distance.

Before installing the windows, ensure that the construction is

structurally stable.

Install the windows according to the installation instructions for

the window. Supplementary instructions are enclosed with the

special flashing."

http://www.velux.co.uk/en-GB/Documents/Brochure%20pdfs/451767-2010-04%20compressed.pdf

Have a great Easter weekend everyone!

I've also found this. F16 your views and anyone who can add anything would be great. See page 62/63

"ATRIUM

It is possible to install VELUX roof windows in flat roofs (roof

pitches form 0° to 15°) to produce an atrium type effect. However,

this installation requires special cover and flashing components

that must be ordered as special products.

Cover and flashing components are based on a kerb construction

similar to VELUX Flat Roof Kerb ECX.

The kerb for the atrium is not part of the VELUX product programme

and should be made on site. Certain dimensions must be

respected, see drawings opposite.

The dimensions of the kerb vary depending on chosen window sizes

and frame distance.

Before installing the windows, ensure that the construction is

structurally stable.

Install the windows according to the installation instructions for

the window. Supplementary instructions are enclosed with the

special flashing."

http://www.velux.co.uk/en-GB/Documents/Brochure%20pdfs/451767-2010-04%20compressed.pdf

I am going to send the following. Can anyone comment.

"With regards to my previous email I have already informed you that I will be ensuring the building inspector fully inspects and evaluates the condition of the roof before you come to carry out any repairs. I feel it is not appropriate for you to arrive and repair the flashings, as the inspector has not actually carried out a proper inspection of the roof. May I also remind you that the judge has ordered that the following:

"The claimant shall at his expense inspect the Velux windows and rectify any aspect of the installation likely to result in water ingress.

This means that it is not just the velux windows which require attention. As I informed you in court there is wood which is exposed and there are other aspects of the roof which need rectifying. This is including but not limited to the following

• Guttering- The pipes from the main roof cannot dump water directly onto the centurion tiles (see centurion installation instructions which clearly explain this)
  
• Ventilation- You have provided no ventilation in the soffit or eaves.
  
• Tile overlaps- Many of the tiles do not meet the requirement of 100mm and 110mm overlap. One row of 16 courses was measure and only 4 tiles actually met the requirements
  
• Verge Tiles- These should be installed along each gable end.
  

Do you even know the make and model of my Velux window and flashings? Do you know if repair is even possible? I am saving you time and money by allowing the building inspector to first inspect the roof. I do not want you to incur unecessary costs coming backwards and forwards to my property. I wish for this to be resolved as quickly and efficiently as possible. Once the roof has been inspected then you will be provided with a report of what work needs carrying out to get the roof to meet building regulations. It is not appropriate for you to attend without even knowing what work is required.

Kind regards,

10 degrees. Knew it.

Were the firings 100mm (4") ?

The drawings show 5" Firings

Who told you that ???

 

I've got my money on the roofer not the architect.

The Roofer told me that he was putting the roof to 15 degrees with the firings. I forgot yesterday that it is the easter weekend, so I won't be able to get in touch with anyone until Tuesday.

My post # 301.

What was the pitch at that stage ?

The pitch was around 10/11 degrees when the original timbers were put on. The firings were supposed to get the correct 15 degree pitch

Max overlap is 110mm

 

Like I said I don't do legal.

 

You need contact from the architect via Email then an urgent visit from Building Control.

If you can't get the former then we will just have to "Wing it".

Yeah sorry F16 I keep forgetting. Ill ring building control again tomorrow and try the architect. Is there anything else I can do in the meantime?

Hi kinger

 

So out of 16 courses of tiles the "Roofer" gets just 4 at the spacing (correct "overlap" or "headlap" btween 100mm and 110mm).

 

Bear in mind he has done this knowing the "pitch" is at 13.5 degrees not the 15 on the drawings.

You think he would make every effort to get this stage of the job right.

So should the overlap be even more than centurion say, especially as the pitch is less than 15?

I still have not received a response from the building inspector. I have the feeling he just wants the "easy way out." I am pretty sure the builder has arranged for the inspector to come along with him when he decides to come and "fix the flashing." I don't really feel like the inspector is going to be on my side here.

I have also received the following in a letter from the company

Dear Mr xxx

Further to the order, as attached, I emailed you 3rd April 2014 and I then wrote to you 8th April 2014 and now again today. I write to you to request that you communicate with me and allow my staff to visit your property to rectify the problem of the velux windows as stated.

As District Judge xxxxx has expressed in his summoning up, it was expected that this would have been completed prior to the actual General Form of Judgement being received in the post. Unfortunately this is not the case and I have received no communication from you whatsoever.

It is not my intention to give you till Tuesday 22nd April to contact myself and arrange a suitable time to visit your property. Otherwise you will leave me with no alternative other than to contact the court with a request for immediate judgement including all legal costs and interest to date.

I do hope this will not be the case and I look forward to hearing from you soon.

Your sincerely

Kinger

We are not ready for the Building Inspector yet.

Need response from architect first.

 

You might have to pay for the Building Inspectors visit when you point out all the defects .... But as per the Judgement ... You "Claim" that back.

Your "Roofer" then has to pay for the "Sign off" (which won't happen) visit

 

Just to comply with the building regs (architects spec.) It's going to cost him £100s.

Let alone the Velux flashing kits and this"Water test"

 

"At the Claimants expense"...... That's Materials and labor

.

And get an insurance backed guarantee.

He will "Walk away"

Hi F16. I called the architect again today and got no answer. I have also sent an email with all the points you mentioned. I have measured a row of tiles in the middle from the top to bottom. The overlaps are the following

107mm

95mm

99mm

96mm

105mm

95mm

95mm

96mm

102mm

99mm

99mm

100mm

96mm

98mm

98mm

95mm

Another ? For the architect...... In fact a list.

 

1. ventilation on soffits and gables.

 

2. Plate ties (Roof Straps). Should they also be present on the gables ?

 

3. On the Centurion tiles fitting instruction it states. "down pipes from higher level roofs should not discharge onto the "Centurion" tiled roof.

What provision was made for this ?

(looking at the plans there is a way around this).

I'll send that off tomorrow, and I will measure the tiles. I will get back in touch as soon as I have more information. Thank you all for not giving up on me.

So just to update:

• Today I emailed the inspector telling him I wanted him (or someone suitable experienced enough) to come around and inspect all aspects of the roof. I told him how important it was that the inspection was thorough as there is a court case relying on the inspection.
  

• Architect Will be chased up tomorrow
  

I have also realised something today. I am sure F16 is aware of this but it has not been mentioned yet. The insurance backed guarantee only becomes active once the roofer ceases to trade. As long as the roofer is trading I will have no comeback to the insurer and will have to deal with this roofer directly. His terms and conditions state loads of exclusions to the warranty, so I can just see him refusing a guarantee claim if the roof leaks. He will say that I have tampered with it again, and the insurance backed guarantee won't get involved as the company is still trading.

I can see this ending badly for me and I have learned a lot of painful lessons along the way.

Kinger.

I've "Sussed" how to get the roof at 15 degrees. Just worked it out !!!

100% sure this will work

Architect will need to redo the calculations for Building Regs because my idea is placing the "Load" of the roof on the 2 flank walls (gable walls).

He (architect) has put all of the "Load" on the "front elevation" wall.

That sounds interesting. However, thats only good if the roofer agrees to do the work. I have got a reply from one of his admin/receptionist/employee. I sent the email to him, but he has started getting someone else to respond. Anyway after I told them that I was going to liaise with building control to find out exactly what was wrong, and to then let them know what needed fixing I got this response:

"Good Evening Mr xxxx

I am in receipt of your email below and note the contents.

Can I first ask why you are making arrangements to contact the Building Inspector when the District Judge has already given directions for (Company) to contact (Inspector) following necessary repairs of the Velux windows?

As stated in (Roofing company owner's) email below, (Building inspector) has already been contacted and has confirmed he will return to your property to inspect and sign off the completed works in order for (Company) to arrange for insurance and warranties.

We need you to now follow the Directions of the General Judgement and allow access to your property to complete the works. Therefore please return by email dates you will be available for this access."

Woah! what seems to be going on here. They seem to think a little tinkering of the flashing and its job done. The judge said nothing of the sort he said

The claimant shall at his expense inspect the velux windows and rectify any aspect of the installation likely to result in water ingress. The claimant is now however required to alter the pitch of the roof. Further, and also at the Claimant's expense the Claimant shall arrange an inspection by the local authority inspector."

They seem to be trying to just get everything rushed and signed off, which was expected. Can anyone advise how to deal with these people, as I can see this going back to court very soon, and I just seem to be banging my head against a wall at every opportunity. I think I would be very foolish to sit back and watch this inspector (if you can even call him that) bark on command at the demands of this company.

Hi Kinger,...... Interesting day to day !!!!

 

I rang Velux. Spoke to "Tech" dept. Explained the "pitch" problem and that the Building Inspector suggested a flat roof flashing kit.

He said "That still won't work". He also stated the only way was to increase the pitch to 15 degrees.

 

I rang Centurion Tiles. They are saying their tiles must be fitted with clips and all points on their fitting instructions must be followed.

When we get to the stage of talking about this with the Building Inspector, he "may" be interested but this is not part of building regs.

 

I have "Other plans" for that information !!!

 

Got the drawings. Cheers

They clearly show soffit vent and verge (gable) vents.... Which are not fitted.

"Plate Ties" where you live are referred to on the plan as "Roof Straps"

The plan states "Roof Straps to be positioned at 2M intervals" I can not see one !!

 

We discussed why Mr Clip Clop Clip Clop Roofer took you to Court when the condition of the roof he produced is so poor.

 

Read "Making a complaint about a member" on the NFRC website.

Note the last point about "Legal Action"..... NFRC "withdraw".

He Knows the roof is a total shambles and does not want it inspected and him have to address ALL the errors.

 

He just Blew his other leg off with that move.

 

Any response from the architect ?

I believe he must be away on holiday. I got an auto response. I am going to try and contact him again tomorrow.

I am assuming then even after the court action the NFRC are not going to get involved at all.