Thanks for that response, I am still very unclear about the CCA and have heard very mixed views about it. I believe OFT said that Orange were under the CCA, but twice Orange have told me they are not. I did complete a complaint form issued by the OFT to investigate, but I also hear other mixed responses about this. Yes, legal advice is undoubtedly the way to go. Well there are 19 of us who are taking Orange to court to get out of this alleged contract. I agree, I cannot see how I will be held to a contract I did not make to company b, and nor was I even aware of its existence. Hopefully, once the justice system does bring justice, then I will sue Orange for the years amount of time and money I have wasted on this. Fingers crossed for a positive outcome, for us and for other potential victims of this [problem].

Thanks for your responses. The process of trying to sort it out with Orange has been exhausted, they simply will not budge an iota. Once a customer has been through the CISAS process, I think you can't go back to Orange directly (I tried - they simply said that they won the CISAS case and our communication has been exhausted). Re: the CCA, I also find that very confusing, it seems if the bills are unpredictable then they are not exempt, but the bills in this case are predictable each month (fixed amount of £96.94 for 'business sense' package). I have written to OFT again to complain also that Orange has passed the alleged debt to a debt collectors whilst in full knowledge that it is disputed, OFT response is it is not their problem and to go to OFCOM. Round and round I go..

Thanks for your responses. The company is called Midland Distributions and as I understand it are the distributor for Orange. It is true that Orange do not have a copy of the contract (which I have requested on several occasions), I also requested a copy of the credit agreement under Consumer Credit Act, but they state they are exempt from this, to which I have had varying conflicting advice. According to ex-sales agents at Excell, calls weren't recorded (as they knew that they were being mis-sold). When the contract came from Excell it stated that as I have 'purchased the good by telephone, there is no legal requirement to sign for them as your contract is generated by accepting the mobile phone over the telephone' (?). So, I didn't sign anything. According to Orange, I accepted their alleged contract by paying the bills. I noticed that business customers of Orange (which apparently I am, having a business contract), are required to provide several things: company headed paper, cheque book etc. I was never asked for this. RE: last post (@Human Writes) the contract is not in the name of a limited company, in fact the company does not exist, does that make a difference. Much appreciated.

Thanks for your responses and useful information. It seems that Orange do have a responsibility to ensure that their retailers are following the rules also, which is what Ofcom's GC23 is about. In this case Orange owns a company called Midland, and perhaps because of the reshuffling of the MD of Excell or the high cash back offered, Midland (Orange) decides to pull all the funds from Excell, which directly causes them to go under. Then, the MD starts a new company which Orange continues to trade with. Sound fishy? I now have debt collectors on my back, even though Orange knew the alleged contract is disputed. I am unclear about one aspect relating to this: When Excell originally called me they told me I had to be a business to start this contract (business contract). When I told them I was not, they said to make up the name of a business and I can 'take advantage of their offer', so I did. The debt collectors letter is addressed to that business at my address. Does anyone know what that means for me?

An update on this situation: Many of us complained through CISAS, but found them bias - they based their entire adjudication on the premise that we had a 'contract' with Orange, even though Orange never informed anyone that we had a contract or provided any terms and conditions. In Orange's evidence they provided somebody else's paperwork as they didn't have mine (because it does not exist). Then I discovered that Orange heavily funds CISAS.. 'independent' they say...! Ofcom are currently investigating Orange's obligation to GC23, as certainly in this case they have broken just about every possible obligation and responsibility they had. I have asked them to provide me with the credit agreement under the CCA to which they responded that they are exempt from this law, in fact, you would think Orange are above any law the way they conduct themselves. Of the 100 people who I have talked to involved in this debacle, not one person was aware they were entering into a contract with Orange, no-one was provided with terms and conditions, other instances include: a person who changed his mind during the sales call, was told that was not possible (cooling-off period?), another asked what if the company went into administration? Excell responded that there is an insurance body set up so consumers will always be protected. Not true. Another person, on receipt of his phone and could not get a signal, was told that a new mast was currently being put up in his local area (not true). Most people were deceived about the VAT being added on top, not just to the £15 agreed amount, but to Orange's total of £75, making it a new total of £96.98, making it nearly double the total amount was agreed. After 12 months, we were told we would be on a 'better deal', our packages would be reviewed and we would not pay more than before. However speaking to ex-Excell staff, this turned out to be untrue. New cashback deals were dealt out, or more expensive tariffs, the motif was always to keep customers chained forever to these companies. I stopped using my phone over a year ago. Orange have been completely unreasonable and not offered any affordable solution to me. They expected me to pay £96.98 a month for 300 mins, no internet, and on the average - regularly faulty - Sony Ericsson Elm - the camera does not work and it regularly switches itself off. I get the same deal for £12 from Virgin. Orange recently threatened to send in the debt collectors, I advised him that at present the debt is disputed and cannot be forwarded. It is currently under investigation with Ofcom, and 19 of us are taking them to court. Regardless Orange sent it to the debt collectors, who have sent me a bill for £1,300 and have started to leave messages on my phone. This is the story so far, any advice would be much appreciated.

Thanks, Good advice. I've sent off the complaints letter, as up until now Orange has responded to my emails by telephone, so I will have requested written proof this time. As Excell are in administration, I have written to the administrators Begbie Traynor, though they haven't responded, I called them and they said there is nothing I can do till they sort it out. I doubt anyone is holding much hope that there will be any money left as the consumer is at the bottom of the pile in terms of priority payment are concerned, so I may just have to write that off. Fingers crossed for a good result from Orange, otherwise next step Cisas. Thanks for help.

Great, what's the solution?

Thanks Locutus, i've literally just done that, so here's hoping

Hi all, sorry it's a bit long-winded, am at my wits end with this situation, hope someone can advise.. Last June I was called by a company called Excell Communications who claimed they worked with Orange. They offered me a £15 (total) a month mobile contract with Orange claiming I would receive 1500 minutes. (Even though I never use that amount of minutes, at the time I was having difficulty with the reception with the ‘3’ network so I thought it would improve things for the same cost I was paying 3). Excell said it was a ‘business contract’, but they stated that it didn’t matter that I wasn’t a business. After I had agreed to these terms, and the change-over to Orange had begun, did I realise that the ‘total’ price excluded VAT, and in fact the agreement worked as a cash back system, meaning that I was on an Orange ‘business sense 1500 - 24 month contract’. The invoices came from Orange for £88.13 and, once I had paid this and sent a copy of the invoice to Excell, I would be refunded £60, costing me nearly double what I had originally agreed, especially now with the VAT increase, the bills are now £89.63. However, the bigger problem emerged in December when Excell Communications went into administration, leaving me (amongst approx 8000 others) in expensive mobile contracts with Orange for another 18 months. I have spoken to Orange to ask them if I can leave the contract considering my agreement with Excell has been broken, and they will not allow it. They have only offered to reduce my tier slightly which will still cost me nearly £50 a month which I simply cannot afford. They also stated that if I accept, I will also lose any option of cashbacks in the future, should they happen. They referred me to a company called Midland who they say is dealing with the situation, but they claim they are not, but merely offering a £60 cash back as a ‘goodwill gesture’ for 3 months. However the cashbacks have to be paid into my Orange account, effectively paying Orange twice. Since starting this contract with Excell in July, I have so far paid to Orange £618.75, and only received two £60 cash back payments from Excell. According to Ofcom’s GC23, Mobile service providers are obliged to: - not to engage in dishonest, misleading or deceptive conduct - ensure that any retailers it uses to sell mobile services are made aware of GC23 and to monitor their compliance - use reasonable endeavours to ensure that any incentives offered by mobile services retailers are not unduly restrictive, and that consumers are provided with clear, comprehensible and accurate information on the particulars of the sales incentive. On top of this, I noticed that Orange’s terms and conditions for business contracts is that they require a copy of my business headed paper and company cheque book, neither of which have been requested nor do I own. Also I hear Excell Communications are now trading under Premier Phones with apparantly no comeback to the problems they have caused. At the end of the day Orange are benefitting from unethical trading and should be held accountable. Can anyone help please, I cannot afford this contract at all and am considering canceling my direct debit because it is pushing my overdraft to the limit with its costs.