All the T&Cs collected so far are now available in PDF format. Links are in post #1.

Please could everyone also send a copy of any T&Cs or price lists to [email protected] m. It doesn't matter what format they are in - though better quality scans are, er, better. I know this is now the third email address to be given out - but this one is for a stopgap thread I've started: HSBC T&Cs HERE, and everything you send will be posted immediately - or within a few hours anyway - so you will be able to see some quick results from this one. I'll also acknowledge all emails unless you ask me not to. Please note when scanning T&Cs that it is important to include every page apart from completely blank ones. We especially need the printer's info - which is usually in small type sideways next to the spine on the back cover. Everyone should still send everything they have to [email protected] as well, of course! cheers, stax

Please could everyone also send a copy of any T&Cs or price lists to [email protected]. It doesn't matter what format they are in - though better quality scans are, er, better. I know this is now the third email address to be given out - but this one is for a stopgap thread I've started: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/95312-hsbc-t-cs-here.html, and everything you send will be posted immediately - or within a few hours anyway - so you will be able to see some quick results from this one. I'll also acknowledge all emails unless you ask me not to. Please note when scanning T&Cs that it is important to include every page apart from completely blank ones. We especially need the printer's info - which is usually in small type sideways next to the spine on the back cover. Everyone should still send everything they have to [email protected] as well, of course! cheers, stax

Hello Sha, In my opinion - and no-one has contradicted it - you need all the T&Cs that apply to period(s) you are claiming charges for. There is a rough guide to the most important bits of the 1996 T&C here: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/95312-hsbc-t-cs-here.html#post883209. cheers, stax

Not in my power to, but hopefully something is in the pipeline.

When is the earliest charge you are claiming for? My understanding is that if it's post '96 then you won't need the earlier T&Cs. I assume that at least some of the charges you are claiming for were taken since 96? If so, then you will definitely need T&Cs from 96 or later to cover those. Basically, you need T&Cs covering all times that charges you are claiming for were taken. So if you are claiming for pre-96 charges, there is a currently a bit of a gap in your evidence, but I wouldn't worry too much. Unless HSBC produce the older T&Cs in evidence, the likelihood is that the court will have to go with the assumption that they were similar in relevant respects before 96. In other words, they will very probably give you the benefit of the doubt - because it's more likely that the older T&Cs were basically the same than that there was some unknown difference which just happens to undermine your case. This is especially true because the T&Cs didn't change significantly for ten years after 96 - until the recent rewrite last December, which was obviously a response to our claims! So even if HSBC did produce them you would probably be OK, because it really is very likely that the older T&Cs will turn out to be much the same as the 96 ones in all relevant respects. You can highlight the relevant passages and/or make a note of them and/or paste the text into a document, but if it comes to going to court, the most important thing is to make sure you understand what they prove and how it is relevant to your case. Its important even if you don't get to court You may already have it clear in your mind, but if not, and anyway for the sake of anyone else who might want clarification, I've updated the summary at http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/95312-hsbc-t-cs-here.html#post883209 to make it clear what I think the significance of the key terms is. So if in doubt, look at that post. Also keep an eye out for the official CAG HSBC T&Cs post, which may be appearing sometime soon. In the meantime, hope this helps. cheers, stax

Hello all, glad they are of use. I don't want to tread on anyone's toes so I should add I will send these as pdfs as soon as CAG provides somewhere for them to be downloaded from. In fact I've already sent/offered to send most of them already, but obviously there is quite a bit on what with the strange antics of various district judges recently, so in the m,eantime I am providing the stuff on this thread as a stopgap. If anyone knows of a site which can hosts pdfs for free, I'll put them there. In the meantime it's just images, though the full T&Cs for 2003 and 2004 are available as pdfs here: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/90721-i-need-your-help.html#post840881 though I don't know for how long theye will stay there. Also, if anyone else has any T&Cs they've scanned feel free to add them. If you're not sure how, PM me. COPYING, SAVING OR PRINTING THE IMAGES: It should be possible to save or print the images by clicking on them with the right-hand mouse button and selecting 'Save picture as...' or 'Print picture' from the pop-up menu. That's how you do it in Windows anyway, but Mac OS is probably pretty similar I expect. (Just ignore that last sentence if you don't know what it means.) If you can't be bothered to right-click and save each image file, you could look in your temporary internet files (For Microsoft Internet Explorer, that's something like Tools..Internet Options..Temporary Internet Files..View Files - the details depend on your IE version) after you have viewed the page(s) with the images you want on them, and you will probably find all the image files cached in there. (Again ignore this if you don't know what I'm on about.) Anyway I hope that answers most questions and doesn't cause more confusion than it removes. For my next trick: the complete 1996 T&Cs, in full colour (red and black, very appropriate.) Stax

If you can email them, surely you can save or copy them? Images are better than text for evidence purposes - they look a lot better in court than a big slab of text which could have come from anywhere. On that topic I now have the 96 T&Cs in glorious technicolor, to follow. Text obviously has its uses though, notably cutting and pasting bits, as you have found. Thanks for your contribution of the 1996-vintage text. I've PMed you about it. In answer to your q about the useful bits from the 1996 T&Cs: -------------------------------------------------------------- THE CORE BITS (TALK ABOUT BANG TO RIGHTS!)--------------- 7.2 You must always keep your current account in credit unless we have agreed an overdraft with you. 7.3 You must not go over any overdraft limit that is agreed with us unless you get our agreement first. 7.9 As well as charging interest for unauthorised overdrafts, we may also charge a fee to cover the cost of the administration involved (see the relevant price list). ----------------------------------------------------------- EXPLANATION OF THE CORE BITS: 7.2 & 7.3 mean that you are in breach of contract if you go over your OD limit. This is a necessary condition of the charges being penalties. 7.9 makes it clear that the charges are levied in response to that breach, and not on some other basis. It also says that the charges are to cover costs - this is the bit we need to disprove to confirm that the charges are penalties - hence the OFT stuff. The fact that the bank makes this claim means that we have a very good basis for saying they concealed the fact that they weren't just covering costs but instead making a profit - which is useful if you want to claim charges levied more than 6 years ago. --------------------------------------------------------------- A BIT WHICH SHOWS THEIR NEW STORY ABOUT INFORMAL OVERDRAFT REQUESTS ISN'T JUST A CLARIFICATION OF EXISTING PRACTICE---------------------------------------- 7.7 If we pay a cheque or other item you issue and, as a result, your account goes overdrawn or goes over your agreed overdraft limit, this does not mean that we have agreed an overdraft or an increased limit. You must immediately pay enough money into your account to cover the overdrawn amount or the amount that is over your agreed limit. ----------------------------------------------------------- A BIT WHICH COULD BE PERSUASIVE IN CONNECTION WITH CLAIMING BACK OD INTEREST (THOUGH LATER VERSIONS OF THE T&CS ARE LESS SPECIFIC ON THIS AND THEREFORE MORE USEFUL)----------- 9.3 Liability for unauthorised transactions 9.3.1 Our liability We will be responsible for any money lost if: . your card is lost in despatch from us to you . there is a fault on a self-service machine of which you have not been notified by a message on the screen or a notice on the machine. Unless we can show that you have acted fraudulently or with gross negligence, we will also be responsible for any money lost if your card is used without your authority after you have reported to us that it has been lost or stolen or that you suspect that your PIN is known by someone else. We will credit your account with any amount debited under the above circumstances including any related interest and charges. We will have no further liability to you. ------------------------------------------------------------