Sorry i missed the other reply. It is allocated to the multi-track. It's a relatively complicated boundary dispute. We are standing our ground, but the other side are rather bloody minded. They have very little evidence to support their view, but they have deep pockets. We have several decades of evidence, deeds, witness statements etc. I guess perhaps this is the wrong place for advice regarding Part 36 offers when it comes to Boundary Disputes? Or is the advice the same? The argument could be over ownership of 3 cars - they propose we keep two, and they keep the last. We possibly propose the same, only both sides want their costs to be paid. We would never accept paying their costs. They have been excessive, and have only incurred those costs after ignoring or misunderstanding crucial points of the dispute. Eeg. in mid 2009 they wrote to say that they had spent £4500 to date, and would sell the disputed property for £10,000. At the time certain points were made, in writing, which were in December 2010 made again and they asked why we were raising new points. We have confirmation that they received the relevant information before, so it is utterly puzzling that they claim to know nothing about it. To top this off they also have more than a dozen mistakes in their Particulars of Claim - these will all be brought up at court. We just can't imagine that they could be so naieve as to imagine that these would go unnoticed.

The other side did very little in the first 9 years. They delayed for 1 year, then another year, and then 3 years, so 5 years in total. In early 2009 they got a new solicitor, and had a new expert surveyor, and after meetings & correspondence didn't get very far they decided to put up a barbed wire fence. They put it on our land, so we invited them to remove it, or to meet to discuss it, they refused/ignored this, so we removed it. Cue threats of injunctions etc. - in 2010 a claim was taken out, and things have proceeded from there. We have had a session of mediation. That was 4 hours, and we extended it for 3 hours hoping to get somewhere. We needed the extra time as the other side, the Claimants, they refused to meet face to face, and refused to share position statements, or have opening statements shared, so in the end mediation didn't get anywhere. We've now received notice from the court for the case conference, and things are proceeding. Ultimately - if with respect to the land we both propose the same, but they want their £30k costs paid, and in our offer to settle we wnt the same, but our £5k costs paid - how does that work. The point of the tactical move to offer to settle is to do with getting the same or better in court - but if you both ask for the same, with the only difference being regarding costs??

Could anybody help a LIP please? We have received a Part 36 offer in a Boundary Dispute. The dispute is over 3 small areas of land, and they would give us 2 out of 3, drop the remainder of the claim for damages etc, but would want us to pay their costs. This totals £30,000 to date. We would be tempted to make a similar offer, to let them have 1 of the 3, drop our counter claim for damages, trespass etc., and they pay our costs which are maybe £5-6000 to date. Should the matter get to court, and the judge decide that we keep the 2 out of 3, they keep the 1 out of 3, how is it decided how to split costs. In this case the land is relatively worthless - perhaps £2000 in total, but they have spent tens of thousands in the last 18months, after ten years of a dispute, whereas we have kept costs to a minimum. If our offer on land matches their offer on land - can there be no tactical advantage regarding costs? We'd happily end the dispute, but we are not prepared to pay their costs - it's their problem that they have spent all that money. Even to agree on the land, but pay our own costs would have cost us thousands of pounds. Any comments regarding the Part 36 issue. Since this is a boundary dispute it's not a disagreement over fixed amounts of money, but a dispute over ownership of parcels of land. When it is judged if the outcome exceeds the part 36 offer - what is taken into consideration exactly?

We will try asking the other side, but in 10 years their cooperation has been non-existent. We just want to fight the case because we dispute all of their claim, but we don't want to spend thousands of pounds on legal fees. What is CPR 15.5 ? Thanks again for the replies

Thank you for the replies. Can you advise as to where i can learn about the extension and applying for it? Presumably whether the other side agrees to it or not it would be the courts decision? The other side will not agree, or at least i very much doubt it.

I hope you might be able to help - this is one forum i thought might be able to help even though my issue is not the norm for here. My parents have received a county court claim as part of a boundary dispute. It came requiring a response within 14 days, and we responded asking for the 14 day extension to 28days so that we can prepare out defence. We have just found that our insurance company are refusing to cover legal expenses for a number of reasons, and whilst we are going to challenge that, we need to progress. We can't really afford to pay out for a solicitor, but have spoken to several about the case, both recommended, but also friends who are in the trade. We have been told that it is par for the course in these disputes to apply for an extension for the purposes of preparing a defence - beyond the standard 28 days. Since it looks like we may be defending the case outselves we would like to do this, but right now do not know the correct way of going about it. We have a very strong case, and have a very well documented 10 years of little action and no negotiation by the other side. If you have any advice or could suggest where to go next it would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance Chris

The 25th of June has come and passed now - Lee has as promised double checked to make sure that my bills are correctly at the amount of £35 a month with a 50% retentions discount so £17.50. I was promised an offer of goodwill, and after unfortunately missing a call last week i then received answerphone message, then an email saying that as a goodwill gesture my account balance had been taken to £0.00. This was effectively a credit to my account of £17.50. It was applied already, and my bill was correctly at ~£17.50 - but i did email back to say that i thought that this was not really acceptable as what i understood to be a final offer of goodwill. I had been offered £20 very easily over two months ago when i first seriously challenged the problems with my incorrect billing amount - but this was a final offer of £20, and did not include the correction of £2.50 a month (or £45 over my 18month contract) - rightly i refused that £20 offer two months ago as i wanted my bills to be correct. That after dealing with 191 staff repeatedly to correct my account being incorrectly billed every month, and then the Vodafone Directors office for a series of calls and emails, only to find that the promised changes to my account having not been applied, and then again speaking with Tom and then Lee from the Vodafone Webteam - frankly i thought that a months free line rental totallying £17.50 was laugahble given the time and trouble to get this matter dealt with, especially given the forthcoming data charges for which i am receiving notification texts that i am over the 500mb limit! I emailed Lee last Friday, and today after speaking to him on the phone and expressing that i am not happy and trying to explain why the offer has been changed to a further £20 - so £37.50 in total for the whole cockup. This is a far more reasonable offer, but i am not going to decide if i will accept this. I have been trying to be as polite and reasonable all along, and have asked that i received the same treatment. I'd hope that a level of respect would be given - i have not tried to barter back and forth to negotiate an agreed settlement, i've simply expected that after considering all the details of my account and mistake after mistake being made that Vodafone would come to me and make an offer that they think is fair. Lee has rightly pointed out to me that this is a voluntary offer by Vodafone. It is a gesture by them, a token if you will. If so then why £17.50, why then so readily increase it by £20 (a figure i happened to mention - perhaps i should have mentioned £30, or £40, or...you get my drift). If it's worth £37.50 to Vodafone to keep me as a customer 'happy' - why come back with £17.50 I don't think i could have stressed more how unhappy i have been with the way i have been treated and how i have had to keep on at Vodafone to get the simplest of things done and not ignored. Going to have to have a cup of tea and think about it. Totally farcical situation to have gone through. It's undermined all the faith i had in Vodafone for several years. I recommended people use them, now it's more i'll recommend that people avoid them

That is of course the negative side to all of this. Obviously there is a balance to be struck - if customers are affected by a few who saturate the data network, and it costs Vodafone money then it's only right that it should be dealt with. This has to tally with how things have been knowingly sold, terms & conditions, and then it has to be properly handled. Myself i've recommended Vodafone for years, just not any more. Once i've moved on i doubt they'll miss me, and i doubt this fiasco will be as frash in my mind. It won't be forgotten though. I did have some faith that it would all get sorted, but i was mistaken. Maybe a little naieve. Either way it's all ploughing ahead. I do wonder if the story will get picked up by something like Watchdog, or maybe a main story on something like MoneySavingExpert. It did get covered in The Times in the business section, but there hasn't been much national interest.

I can see it from both sides, and to be honest it would be a disaster if enough customers actually left Vodafone and it made a significant financial impact on the company (very, very unlikely btw.) but that Vodafone are effectively playing chicken with this possibility is a bit silly. To do it under the mask of dealing with problem excessive downloaders and tethering customers is disingenuous at best. I'd rather not be doing this, i'd rather not be advising people not to join Vodafone without weighing up the situation, and having to tell people that they might well want to consider leaving because of this is a shame.

I hope that this is relevant to you mrpavers; So first of all - you will not be charged without notice. Effectively this means that you can use Mobile Internet with impunity. You will not be charged for any excess use as there are no charges at this point. If you continue to use excessive data (meaning 500mb+) then you will be contacted by telephone, and you will be offered other tariffs and bundles. You do not need to accept these, and then if you stick with your existing tariff, which is your right - then you will be given 14days notice that the charges will start being applied to your account. At this point you have 14 days to write to Vodafone, requesting cancellation of your account. You will be able to do this without penalty. Cancelling will give 30 days notice, but if like me you request a PAC code and you take your number elsewhere your account with Vodafone will end once the number tranfers to another provider. You will be billed for your line rental up to this day of cancellation. I'm sure if i have made any mistakes here they will be corrected - they are not intentional. Hope that helps.

I just can't help but think that Vodafone could have handled the matter better. Of course i will wait and see, but the information publicly available is pretty clear that you're going to charge me, so why not just let us get on with leaving? Or be upfront about the realities of this situation and offer upgrades, or do something to retain custom. This is the fingers in ears "lalala not listening" school of customer service. I can't imagine that it'll be used when training staff on the right way of dealing with things!

If excessive use continues though isn't it a foregone conclusion? The level of use defined as excessive is set. The charges are set. Continued excessive use will be chargeable. Charges that would push your bill to a larger than 10% raise make that customer eligible to cancel without penalty. I understand that if my use doesn't fall into the excessive category then things will continue as they have done before - but that isn't really what this is all about.

Lee has today come back to me about all of this; Sad to say that it's clear that i'll be contacted in the near future. I've received my first text telling me that i've gone over my limit this month, i won't be changing to a different bundle, andi will be writing to cancel once i am informed of the charges. Personally i think this is a mistake for Vodafone. Certainly in my case i would think it's going to cost them more by letting me go than it would by letting me stay and not charging me for using the data the contract was sold on. I would think that on balance Vodafone is just betting that most customers who might be affected will either just pay, or will switch to a different tariff. I fully understand the need to monitor and control bandwidth, but can't help but think that there is an element of Vodafone "cutting off it's nose to spite its face!"

That's great thanks for posting here too. Customers obviously just want clarification on things and to be treated fairly. There is a lot of unhappyness surrounding what appear to be measures to deal with 'excessive' use that are tarring everyone with the same brush and actually making it easier for people who are the tiny minority affecting all customers to get away from Vodafone with no penalty. Somewhat of a sledgehammer to crack a nut approach and appears to be unfair given what has been sold. Look forward to hearing from you.

So when i am notified i then have to write in? Do you think that i will have to pay the charges for that month? As i have to give 30days notice if i continue to use my mobile for that 30 days and use 501mb+ then i'll be paying two lots of charges, one for the 30days in arrears when i am notified, and then for the 30days notice period. I'm expecting another email from Vodafone, and then i might ask this to get them on the record with their comments about how it will apply in regards to the T&Cs I'm totally open to the idea that i'm misinterpreting all this but then i want a response on the record and i want it to be checked before sending it to me - i've had too many "oh that was a mistake" and "you shouldn't have been told that it was human error".

Could anybody comment on this - the Terms & Conditions state that; The part in bold clearly states that as a customer i must write to them before the increase applies. I have been told the following by email; According to this link (current statement, though it has changed many times) Vodafone eForum -> Updated 10/06/2010: Mobile Internet Charging I'm confused as to how i can be charged without charges being introduced. My bills are line rental in advance, but out of bundle charges in arrears. So if i am notified for charges then those charges will apply to the previous month? According to the T&Cs i need to write to them before the increase applies, but i am not sure how i can do this if i am paying for it in arrears? If i have made a schoolboy error here please let me know. Cheers in advance

In regards to T-Mobile, don't they have a 3000mb per month fair use limit, over which they do not charge you only throttle your connection? In no case should Unlimited* be considered acceptable - those amongst us who are more savvy and either know what the * means or think to ask will know what it really means, but it's intentionally misleading and should be stopped. Limits are fine and to be expected, and to be honest a charge of 1p per megabyte (in 500mb lumps) for mobile internet currently is actually quite fair. It's just not fair if you sold the contract differently. Do you think it would be acceptable to claim 150mpg on a cars fuel performance but only get 30 - the claims that are made in that exaxmple are rigorously test and proven using industry standards. Whilst there might be some debate about how real they are it's at least being properly addressed. If ISPs and Mobile Telcos need to look at data bandwidth and address it fairly then they need to look at how they sell their products first, and secondly worry about the costs. This is not a case of an unforeseen issue having come about and both sides having to be realistic about it - Vodafone have been selling a product by effectively lying to customers, and they now have to face up to it.

I've just come off the phone with Lee from Vodafone, and whilst we obviously don't see eye to eye on certain aspects of all of this i can understand where he is coming from. Sods law i am watching a 10month old who jealously guards my attention and was doing so when i got the call - as at times i was more involved with talking to Lee than passing his toys let's just say he vocalised his disaproval ! I don't really think that it's acceptable to make significant changes to a product, and try and use the excuse that only 3% of customers might be affected. I can count myself in those 97% of customers who haven't been breaking the 500mb limit on my tariff for the first 4-5months of my contract, but i can tell you that i want to know about it when the change is made. I don't accept that the various statements about it have been satisfactory, and feel very misled by Vodafone over the whole affair. I think i have decent reasons to react that way too. I'm having to wait and see if my billing enquiries are resolved (i think they are now, as even 191 staff quote the correct amount of discount to me now), and once that is confirmed towards the end of this month i will then be contacted to be informed of any 'goodwill' gesture. I'll also be waiting to see if any charges may or may not be applied against my account for any mobile internet use above 500mb. I think it is a tremendouly poor show that all statements in regard to this matter make it quite clear that use over 500mb is considered excessive, and this repeated 'excessive' use will be chargeable. This is not as the products were sold, and not as has been advised in general. It's all well and good to say that this is about dealing with the small % of the 3% of customers who do go over their limit, but it clearly affects many more. Why say that all use over 500mb is excessive and excessive use will be charged if this isn't the case? This is not a case of badly trained sales staff accidentally misinforming customers, or 191 staff giving out incorrect information - it's at all levels of Vodafone. Mention of things like "commercial reasons" or talk about no change of charges or no change of Terms & Conditions is almost meaningless without clear public comment on the matter. I'm afraid that i have very little faith in Vodafone now, as when it comes down to it instead of being honest and open about the whole situation they've been anything but. If it's a policy change then make it public and keep on message about it. If charges should have been applied before then simply say so and start applying charges - but bear in mind that you have to deal appropriately with customers who were sold a Vodafone contract based upon not having those charges. That's pulling the rug out from under people. Closing the eForum thread does little more than prevent customers talking to each other - if nothing more the last month has shown that customers have done a better job of keeping each other informed of the goings on than Vodafone has. The whole situation leaves a very bitter taste in the mouth.

The new hard limits may put people off joining Vodafone, for me it's the treatment as an existing customer that is just not good enough. Any attempt to establish my rights as a customer gets me nowhere. I've had a missed call now from Lee who i think may be the same person who posts here from Vodafone, but it's certainly the Lee i have been dealing with in lieu of Tom Rushton head of the Webteam. Two answerphone messages now since i have been on the phone a lot of that time, where i am now it's a ropey signal so hopefully i will receive the call here.

Sadly it seems that the situation isn't really any better for the customer after a month of back and forth. Mobile Internet - Will The 500Mb Allowance Be Enough For Internet Usage? - Vodafone eForum Vodafone have now locked the topic, updated their statement here; Vodafone eForum -> Updated 10/06/2010: Mobile Internet Charging So many conflicting comments and now with a final update to the announcement Vodafone have locked the door to any more public discussion on their site. These things do happen, and if it was nothing but customers foaming at the mouth and lots of chinese whispers it would be understandable. There are entirely valid queries being made and all Vodafone can do is lock the discussion. Get a text message telling you that you've used more than 25mb a day when you are on a 500mb a month deal - can't talk about it. Even when you've tried speaking to 191 and they fob you off. For some it's a mistake, for others they are having it confirmed by 191. It's an utter fiasco. I've had a thread asking about the dispute procedure for early termination charges shut down - i'm simply trying to find out what my rights are and Vodafone do not want that either. Shame on you Vodafone. This is being poorly handled. Your paying customers deserve better.

No problem. I will go and read it now.

I have now been contacted by Lee_Vodafone which is a positive step at this point. I have replied, and hope to hear back. Right now i am no further forward than from previous enquiries.

Just a quick BUMP hoping that this may get some replies. I don't think Lee_Vodafone has been active since before i posted it so hopefully he'll see it and the PM i sent when he next logs in. A PM was what was meant when it was said to email him right?

This is a new thread started to continue my earlier post at http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/telecoms-mobile-fixed-internet/259070-vodafone-change-unlimited-data.html#post2931649 I'll copy that post over to here rather than rewrite - i will say from the onset that i would simply like to continue with Vodafone as a customer and hope that the issues with Vodafone & Customer Service are simply a blip on an otherwise good history.

Thanks for that. I will follow your advice. I think i may skip the part in regards to the Webteam as i am already in contact with Vodafone officially. Funnily enough as i wrote that post i was reading some of the threads so i am hopeful. I actually want to stay with Vodafone - in my experience they have the best network, and i already have a SureSignal box as our house is a bit of a deadspot for all networks - working from home a lot this is a pain! Thanks again