Just to be clear - I have never let them in. Any question of Levy is on a vehicle, which at the time would only have been a van clearly essential for my business (electrician) and therefore not levyable imo. I did not sign any walking possession agreement, nor did I receive a notice of Levy on it that i can find, but I did sign an agreement to make repayments - which I have a copy of and makes no reference to walking possession or them 'claiming ownership of them'. In fact it says only that if I break the agreement it will result in an Enforcement visit and incur costs - if they had a walking possession at this point, surely they would make clear on this document that they would be returning to seize the vehicle....

Hi, Just as an update, I've now received a list of the 'fees' from Ross & Roberts, which are as follows: Original Debt: £1113.73 First Visit (01/10/2012) £24.50 Second Visit (15/11/2012) £18.00 Levy Fee £56.00 Section H £24.50 Walking Possession Fee £12.00 Enforcement Fee £150.00 Card Charges £23.00 I have no issue with the First and Second visit fees as they are clearly in the Statute. However, Although they claim to have levied on two vehicles I never received written confirmation of that (will be asking of course) - 1 of the vehicles was a business vehicle, the other didn't belong to me - therefore I would say the levy was invalid. I certainly never signed a walking possession order - though I did sign an agreement to make installment payments - I have checked this carefully and it doesn't appear to be a 'walking possession' in disguise - is there a wording that would give this away? Finally, the 'enforcement fee' is relating to their final visit to collect their fees, once I had paid the outstanding council tax debt to the council (and been shown a zero balance on their online payment system). Any advice on which fees are most open to protest and how best to do it are welcome. I will be asking for a copy of any levy and signed walking possession order.

Thanks for the replies, pretty much confirmed what I thought The council is Dartford Borough Council, who for Council Tax work together with Sevenoaks. I've requested a break down and justifications for all the charges so will see what they come up with. Oddly, the Council online system shows all the payments I made to Ross & Roberts being credited directly to my council tax account, seemingly without taking their fees first. The same online system clearly shows a zero balance, and I have of course taken screen shots for posterity. The 3 visits I think come from 2 visits on the first LO, and 1 visit on the second, but I will of course await confirmation. I am prepared to pay the visit fees, but certainly not any other fees - interesting they do not appear to have added a levy fee to the amount, even though it appears they are claiming yesterday's visit as a removal visit - not sure how they intended to remove a vehicle with a van, but we will see what they come up with. Cheers for the responses.

Hi, Excellent forum and I've already found some useful information, but a situation happened today that I'd appreciate some advice on before I blow a gasket, so that I can aim my well deserved ire in the right direction. I'll try to keep this short. Because of significant debt, I allowed my council tax to fall badly into arrears. the last two years were both defaulted and the council obtained liability orders, then passed them to Ross and Roberts. Following an earlier visit, I arranged to pay £100 a month to them, which I did online each month from April last year to January this year. At the end of January, I received some money from the sale of my late father's house, and cleared my debt via the council's online system (approx 2900) on 5th Feb. The online system shows my balance as zero and I confirmed on the phone that there is no outstanding council tax. Today I received a visit from a belligerent bailiff, saying that my agreement had broken and that he was there to collect. I explained that the debt was cleared and he said that it wasn't - then made a show of calling someone at the council and getting confirmation to proceed because there were still bailiff fees outstanding. one of the fees he mentioned was approx £150 'penalty' for breaking the agreement. When I pointed out that this was not a statutory fee, he agreed, but mentioned the visit fees (2 visits on one LO, 1 on the other). I asked for the details of this and he read them out, but refused to give me it in writing. In fact, his words were 'its not going to happen'. I then said that I would pay them if I was provided with the information in writing, upon which he threatened to clamp my van (clearly a business vehicle). Since I was sitting in the van at the time, I told him that I wanted things in writing, and drove off... i returned to find a letter through the door, marked as a 'DEFAULT NOTICE', with 'arrears of council tax owed to Dartford Borough Council' in large letters below. This stated a fee for 'Today's visit' of £150, in addition to the £67 for the 3 previous visits. The part that incensed me was hand written next to this and says: 'Red Vauxhall and Escort on levy and walking possession signed' Two small issues with this. 1. I don't own either of these vehicles! My previous van was a Red Vauxhall Combo (but clearly a business vehicle - I'm an electrician), and I drove my father's Escort for a short while after his death before trading it in, but never became the registered owner. 2. I was never made aware of a levy on either vehicle, and most certainly have never signed a walking possession order I will clearly be raising these issues with the council, the firm, my local councillor, and anyone else who will listen, but in the meantime there are a couple of specific points that would be useful to clarify, as there appears to be conflicting advice on various forums (shock). 1. My understanding is that the liability order is granted to the council, who then assign a bailiff firm as their agents. i.e. that the bailiff is merely the representative of the council. The council has told me to speak to the bailiffs regarding their fees, but am I right in thinking that the council is ultimately responsible for paying the bailiffs from money that I have paid them? In particular, since I was paying the bailiff a monthly fee, is it not usual practise to allocate their fee first before paying anything on to the council? I will of course be seeking a full breakdown of charges. 2. Once the council tax arrears has been paid, does the LO have any validity to allow the bailiffs to act as bailiffs (rather than common debt collectors) in regards to fees, in particular the statutory visit fees that they are claiming? In other words, are they able to legally levy against my current car and seek to remove it to cover only the fees? 3. Am I better dealing directly with the bailiffs through the various template letters, or only with the council, or with both? 4. Can a levy be made against a vehicle without the owner's knowledge - i.e. would I have to sign to confirm, or could they claim they notified me by letter of it (I am sure they did not). If a levy did exist, once I sold/disposed of that vehicle, would the levy cease? Presumably if they claim that the £150 fee today was to attend to remove levied goods they would have to have come prepared to remove a vehicle, not in a large van as was the case. 5. What is the most effective method of causing them the most inconvenience as I feel some payback is called for I have copies of all the relevant documentation/correspondence if any further info would help. Regards Gavin

I'm in exactly the same position - I pulled into the left hand lane to turn left. Because there was stationary traffic in the lane ahead, but moving traffic turning left, I pulled across to join the moving traffic. The pictures do not clearly show at what point I crossed the white line, but it must certainly have been very close. Is there a charge to access the video of the incident, as it is unclear from the pictures whether my front wheels crossed the solid line or not. In any case, the cases notonthezigzag mentions all seem to cover the situation I found myself in. Be great to hear an update on whether his appeal was allowed? I find it difficult to see how Sio could have lost the appeal given the other cases, but have little confidence in the 'system' being anything other than a cash generating machine to make up for loss of Government funding Relevant pics - [ATTACH=CONFIG]46610[/ATTACH] & [ATTACH=CONFIG]46609[/ATTACH] Any thoughts on whether it is worth the hassle of appealing this? I will certainly make an informal appeal, but not sure I have the time or motivation to go through the formal process (That of course is what they rely on). For people who have gone through the appeal process, how stressful is it? Am I right in thinking that you lose the right to the discount if your appeal fails? Surely that is unfair when you consider you have a reasonable case and precedence suggests too. Or are we all now supposed to just bend over and take whatever rogering those in 'authority' deem valid? Gavin

Just to update, having done some research and spoken to National Debt Line (who are very good btw!), I plan to do the following: 1. Use the form from the Dept of Justice Site to make a statutory declaration. (Post limit won't let me add links, so they are at: xxx.justice.gov.uk/guidance/courts-and-tribunals/courts/procedure-rules/criminal/docs/crim-pr-form-part37-statutory-declaration-revised-aug-2011.doc and xxx.justice.gov.uk/guidance/courts-and-tribunals/courts/procedure-rules/criminal/docs/crim-pr-form-part37-statutory-declaration-revised-aug-2011.pdf) (replace xxx with www) updated in August 2011 so appears to be the most current and official version. 2. Get it signed by a Notary Public (handily I have one as a client and am seeing him on Friday to do some work, so that presents me no problems) 3. Fax it to Medway Magistrates Court and await their speedy response (/irony mode off) 4. In the meantime, I've emailed, faxed and will post a letter tomorrow to Marston, notifying them of the situation, asking them to delay any action, informing them if they do attend I will not let them in, and putting on record that the van parked in my driveway is essential for my business so cannot be taken. 5. Sit back and wait... Any advice on things I should/should not do as well gratefully received. Its nice to actually feel I've taken some action though, and this forum (and the search facility) has been a tremendous help in pointing me in the right direction. I hope maybe that my post will assist someone else in the same position... Gavin

Hi, I've read the forum and found some very useful advice, but there are a couple of specific issues that I would appreciate further advice on. A Short Summary: In April I was notified by the DVLA that a car I owned was kept on the public road without a valid license, The car was registered SORN and parked in a visitors parking spot opposite my house, in a place I believed to be 'off the road'. Some correspondence ensued in which they disagreed (naturally) but that was the last I heard of it, so I did not bother to chase it up and remind them. Then on Monday I received a letter from Marston Group Bailiffs stating they had a Magistrates Court Order for non payment of a fine from a hearing 20/06/2011. I knew nothing of the hearing, or would have attended and argued my position, and at the very least pleaded mitigation and requested a reduction of any fine due to my circumstances. I have spoken to the local court fines department, who claim that I was sent a notification of hearing, a notification of fine, and a further document demanding payment - I cannot find any record of these documents and had I received them I would have responded. The address they have is correct in that the car was registered to this address and I have lived here for 10 years. However, my local post has been unreliable at best. Naturally the Bailiffs only concern when I rang was to get some payment off me, and they were not interested in delaying anything to sort things out (I was advised to explain this to the bailiff when he turned up - and no doubt after he had added his hefty attendance fee) I spoke to the court fines department, who said that there was nothing I could do except appeal to the Crown Court, which she made clear could involve large additional costs and suggested there was no way that the Magistrates court would reconsider my case or the fine imposed. I've read the (very useful!) post on statutory declarations which seems to apply, and getting it signed is no problem, since one of my clients is a Notary Public. The only questions I have which hopefully someone can answer: 1. Is a Magistrates Court Order a 'distress warrant' as mentioned in the declaration? If not does the declaration still apply. 2. Once the court has received the declaration, what is supposed to happen - is the case recalled for consideration? Is there a standard procedure that is always followed, or like most things do I need to chase things up (for example notify the bailiffs of the declaration, chase the court up to contact the bailiffs, etc.? ) I know from experience how quickly courts move, and its likely that the 7 days bailiff deadline will pass before they actually do anything, The original offence I still think is arguable, but at the moment my main concern is purely to avoid the bailiffs attending (even if they take nothing as I will not let them in) and adding their huge fees to the debt. Is it possible to have the case reheard at the Magistrates based on the declaration, or is it going to be better to accept it and work on reducing the fine (The unpaid tax levied was only £85, with £60 costs and £500+ fine) Any advice gratefully received. Many Thanks Gavin

Did you mean NO enforcement action in that last post? I am currently in a letter battle with them, and so far they are refusing to back down even after I used the template letter above (with some additions). I am proceeding to their customer service manager as the next step, but if they continue to be awkward I am thinking of taking it all the way to court as their attitude is annoying me. In brief, my car was written off by the insurance company, and collected by them. Following that I sent off the V5 bit, and separately applied for a Vehicle License Refund, which they received and paid. 3 months later I got a letter from them claiming £80 (£40 if I paid up like a good boy) because the vehicle was still registered to me and was unlicensed. Even when I showed them the proof that the vehicle was collected by the insurance company, their view was that because they did not receive the notification of disposal I am liable, even though they accept that I have no legal liability to chase them up if I do not receive a confirmation letter... If anyone has any more information on the case mentioned above, or similar when the DVLA have lost, it would be useful to decide whether I really should take it all the way to court, or give in gracelessly and take the hit Many Thanks Gavin