Sorry to hear that PT.

 

look, being serious now. Ive been in the industry for 10 years, seen and done it all. I have attempted to give advice on here but i just get ripped to bits because i am not advising "form 4 " or "complain".

 

And regardless of what you may think of bailiffs by the remarks above, i am very well educated and i have a degree in business Studies and IT. I also have another business that is not related to civil enforcements.

 

Also, i have not made a call on council tax for 5 years, but many of my collegues still enforce this type of debt and i am familier with the practices.

 

Give me a break and i will do likewise......

 

TRUCE?

BLF I dont think any one is having a go at you directly I for one am not.

The situation is very simple there are also other educated individuals with degrees on here and others like me that have gone thro the university of life ( failed with honours)

We dont like to be taken advantage of or simply told lies or mislead by members/bailiffs that purpot to be helping the OP

This is a self help forum and some folks really are desperate, I for one didnt have a clue how to go on when a HCEO supposedly visited me and then tried to charge over £1000 for the pleasure of it, fortunately I found cag and as I have CCTV in very private gardens I had them by the nuts but they wouldnt simply tell me they made a mistake and give me a correct fee

Oh no they wanted to take me to the high court so they could bully me into paying, however they lost and are now the subject of a police enquiry

If you can help people and answer questions put to you with honesty I and others will respect you for the help you give

Onlyme

What Will I Learn?

• What is A Bailiff In my case a liar and a cheat
  Types of bailiff, an introduction to the course, the types of work done and details of equipment needed to start up.
  
• Glossary of Terms
  Various terms used in the bailiff industry and various forms and terms
  
• Act of Distress Pretend you havent seen the wheel chair and then tell the police you were attacked by the debtor
  The various stages of distress and possible outcomes
  
• General Rule and Offences Bailiff/Debtor Fraud and Lying
  The various rules for things like Poundbreach and rescue and times and days of distress
  
• Fees Think of a number add the date in add hope they are not a cagger
  That can be charged with regard to distress for Rent
  
• Required Paperwork Make it up as you go along
  Various forms we use like Appendix 1 Forms 7, 8 & 9 plus Warrants
  
• Levy Forms Your office will prepare these so you dont have to visit the debtor to claim a visits fee
  How to complete a levy form correctly and the Walking possession
  
• Certification All bailiffs and hceos should be certified
  How the Certification process works and what it allows you to do
  
• How do you become a Bailiff Just sign on the dotted line if you cant write dont worry a cross will do
  The exact procedure including how to fill in the application
  
• Forfeiture We will show you how to lie and cheat
  The procedure, methods and paperwork required to take possession of commercial property for a breach in the terms of a lease
  
• Tricks of the Trade More lying and cheating tips we alos teach you how not to add up
  Various methods we use to gain that elusive payment
  
• National Standards Dont worry about this the national organisation is run by one of my mates
  Details of the National Standards for Bailiffs and Enforcement Officers
  
• Data Protection Tricky one this watch out for caggers with a data subject request
  Data Protection information and law regarding how data protection effects the enforcement process
  
• Sources of work,Taking advantage of others, is always a good starting place, if this isnt for you you can always make up facts that youbeen somewhere and just charge the wrong person
  We give you ideas and information on companies that are looking for sub contractors, etc. Where to and where not to advertise, Trade Associations and useful contacts.
  

That's a very fair and proportioned response and I shall try to heed your knowledgable advice, difficult as it may be sometimes. HCE Group

Hmmmmm thats a very interesting signature you have there HCE Or is it HCE GROUP!!!!

Are you coming out of the closet???

Maybe you are readyfor that meeting Ive requested !!!???

Onlyme

DW keep up the good work but IGNORE the idiots

SF had no PROOF of costs and this is why they can be beaten in an interpleader, you have already said that they have got charges on your costs that they have put in and later rescinded and because you now have the bit btween your teeth I am sure you will beat them.The only problem is that you are now on a knife edge that can put strain on you and your family.

I dont have any answers for you only that you have the support me and of many here on CAG and although doomsayers think the policve arent interested I know they are and I am like a dog with abone so I wont let go

Like me you are more than prepared to be fair but not prepared to be cheated

onlyme and many many more

Oh BTW would any one call this fraud????

HCE opens his computer an all I hear is blah blah blah

Sherforce ran to the interpleader thinking that I wouldnt show and they got a bloody nose

NO WPA , no levy,no valuation - no second visit all charged for and disallowed by the master at an interpleader paid for by Sherforce

Say no more

onlyme

DW, First of all IGNORE hce, his doom sayer approach will simply throw you off track and wind you up. He cant do that to you if you IGNORE him, he cant even have the decency to reply to any questions that I have asked as he knows I am right so leave well alone and he will go and try to wind someone else up

My police investigation of Sf is still ongoing I have recieved a mail today stating even they are having difficulty getting information!!!

Your case is so similiar to mine I am sure the charges would be reduced if not thrown out by an interpleader ,the best approach is to wait for them to make their mistakes as you say they have in the SAR and they will pay for the interpleader in order to wriggle out of it.

Send a letter to your local chief of police asking them to investigate the charges that you have outlined

From:

.......

Date

The Chief Constable

Your county headquarters

]Dear Sir Re: Reporting a crime committed under the Fraud Act 2006[/font]

I wish to notify you of a fraud carried out by ......... High court enforcement, Of ....... address

I enclose a document posted thro my letter box by ........High Court Enforcement Ltd. And another document received by post from.......... The fees they have asked me to pay amount to £..... when the law prescribes a fee of £....... (stat fees plus %) Following my Subject access data request from.......HCE I also have written proof of lies and deceit carried out in order to obtain my money by fraud

The Enforcement company commits an offence under the 2006 Fraud Act.

Lord Lucas sitting at the House of Lords on 20 April 2007 when he asked HM Government whether it would be right for the police to claim that such an action is a civil and not a criminal matter.

The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Scotland of Asthal) replied with, inter-alia (quote) A bailiff or any other person who dishonestly charges for work that has not been done will be committing an offence under the Fraud Act 2006 (unquote).

Section 1 means by which this offence can be committed is set out in Section 2, on fraud by false representation. This section applies where a person dishonestly makes a false representation and intends, by making the representation, to make a gain for himself or another, or cause a loss to another, or expose another to a risk of loss. It is also possible that, where a bailiff repeatedly charges for work that has not been done, this conduct will amount to fraudulent trading either under Section 9 of the 2006 Act or under the provisions on fraudulent trading in company legislation.

The law can provide reasonable costs in respect of bailiffs transporting goods in a van (attending to remove fee) however no goods have been levied and no document has been signed by me. District Judge Advent on the 9th & 24th September 2008 presiding over Case 8CL51015 Anthony Culligan (Claimant) v 1. Jason Simkin & 2. Marstons (Defendants). The court ruled that (quote) because the bailiff produces no evidence as to how the charge had been arrived then he unable to show that it is reasonable (unquote).

Any offence committed under the 2006 Fraud Act is an arrestable offence under Section 24 of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984. Please assign a crime reference number and I request the crime is investigated professionally and objectively and I am happy to help you in your enquiries and stand as a prosecution witness at trial.

Yours Sincerely

You are likely to get a letterputting you off and when you dosend this letter

The Chief Constable

Re ........ High Court Enforcement

Following the inadequate reply from your officer......, I write again to ask you to investigate this complaint fully and to take action against the above company, your DC......... does not seem to grasp the serious nature of my complaint.

I appreciate the police have a propensity to dismiss bailiff crime to be a civil matter, but the official legal position is the suspect commits an arrestable offence under the 2006 Fraud Act. Lord Lucas at the House of Lords on 20 April 2007 when he asked HM Government whether it would be right for the police to claim that such an action is a civil and not a criminal matter. The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Scotland of Asthal) replied with, inter-alia (quote) A bailiff or any other person who dishonestly charges for work that has not been done will be committing an offence under the Fraud Act 2006 (unquote).

Section 1 means by which this offence can be committed is set out in Section 2, on fraud by false representation. This section applies where a person dishonestly makes a false representation and intends, by making the representation, to make a gain for himself or another, or cause a loss to another, or expose another to a risk of loss. It is also possible that, where a bailiff repeatedly charges for work that has not been done, this conduct will amount to fraudulent trading either under Section 9 of the 2006 Act or under the provisions on fraudulent trading in company legislation.

This is not a matter for the OFT Trading Standards, nor any other governing body this company have committed a fraudulent act and as such should feel the full presence of the law.

I shall complain to the IPCC and ask them to investigate further should a satisfactory answer not be received within the next 7 days.

Failure to investigate fully could be seen as an attempt to pervert the course of justice, and as such action could be taken against the officers involved in any such action.

yours etc

Ofcourse none of this helps your present plight with the OC but I would send them a letter before action as a warning shot if they wont play ball and accept your payment and offer to pay the abortive fees, state that SF are their agent and you will hold them responsible for the actions of their agent and that you ahve proof of the wrong doings that you believe have been carried out, dont give up on forcing the OC to give in to your demands, warn them about suing them for the actions of their agent and they might start to listen

onlyme and many many more

DW, If you have a good contact at the Original Creditors, ask them (plead if necessary )for some help, it works sometimes.

Tell them you are prepared can pay them the abortive fees for sherforce.

This is considerably less than, the fees SF will try to extract from you.

Be quick tho you dont want them sending your money to SF as Sf will only set it against their fees, at this time I dont know where you would stand if they do.

perhaps a PM to tom tubby or Lets fight bailiffs or wonkey donkey or ploddertom will help as all of these are very exerienced in the SF game

Onlyme

Subbing with interest cant help on this one but will help with SF fight

onlyme

Guys(this includes gals too but less so) this is a self help site but we are not helping ourselves by answering the stupid posts put up by BLF HCE, etc

If I have said it once I have said it a dozen times

IGNORE THEM they are only winding us up and taking us away from the point

ie we are not helping the original poster I am sure the Op will be able to see what the other side are all about

onlyme

Hatred doesn't come close to describing my feelings towards bailiffs, whilst there may well be members of your chosen profession who don't bully, lie, cheat, steal or intimidate the vulnerable. I have yet to meet one, so I base my opinion on those I have met and those that I have observed.

 

To be quite honest, I don't know you, have never met you, so cannot form an opinion of you as a person. However, on this forum and at this point in time The group that you claim to be a member of, represent a class of person that is entirely beneath contempt in my eyes.

 

This thread was started by me to ask the likes of you without interfering with anyone elses thread, why you continue to even bother coming onto this forum if all you do is divert and misinform posters with your pointless and pedantic comments, you are neither helpful, nor constructive, making comments such as "these fees look fair to me " in the face of clear evidence to the contrary. This would appear to be pretty "stupid" to me.

 

If this thread is "as stupid" as you state it is, or as full of "stupidity" as you claim it to be, why lower yourself to my standards. Simply fight the urge and don't post

 

Asking you (as an alleged bailiff) to explain why you appear in so many threads on this forum offering incorrect information or affirming that unlawful fees are in fact lawful because the bailiff says they are is somehow classed as abuse on your planet?

Sean I hadnt realised of your plight nor history I for one couldnt have turned the other cheek and allowed the bailiff to keep his certificate.

You are ofcourse quite right HCE does make stupid remarks and could certainly learn from your generosity to the other side

The answers never come back from HCE especially if he knows his industry are in a corner

Onlyme

HCE, fortunately the 'Ian Huntley' comment was removed before I could see it. Having been a victim of that also I am quite relieved.

It's a difficult area - I have to bear in mind I'm relatively new here and do not know CAGs rich history - but I personally feel people like yourself have a point to put across and should be allowed to do so.

However, the problem is how you post. It needs to be clean, quick, clinical and factually illustrative. Personal observations are dangerous as they can be misconstrued. And then used against you. That, I'm afraid, is human nature.

I understand why you feel the need to have a dig back at those who snap at your heels - human nature again - but it does you no good. It simply tarnishes peoples view and gives more fuel to those who must attack irrespectively.

Whilst I appreciate true Christian values are a little thin on the ground these days [i say that, and I'm not a Christian per se. Doh!] but the advice of 'turn the other cheek' would serve you well...

Rae.

HEAR HEAR,

Rae I will reply to you not to HCE as I read his comments and either think mmm he has a point or simpy ignore him I recommend others to do the same.

HCE cannot be of true value to this site until such a time that he realises it isnt good to antagonise others, Silence and no reply to him is the best route,unless he is both factual and not anagonistic I have asked many times for a meeting or answers to questions that could help many however these pointed questions are never ever answered.

IMO It is better to be clear and calm and to fight back with the full extent of the law

SF Beware I am still coming for you !!!!

Onlyme and many many more

no not at all, I think they should stick around and really learn something.

maybe you could too, for instance that people are getting wiser to the bailiffs 'tricks of the trade' and that we are NOT going to be the victims any more.

Hear hear!!

I think every one knows I am already in !!!

and waiting for the police decision on fraud with a certain HCE

and appeal !!!

Onlyme and many many more

BACK TO THE ORIGINAL POST!!!

Where have all the bailiffs gone?? no replys here!!!

None will reply to this post as they know that they are up against serious caggers

They prey on new posters that are defenceless and vulnerable

so that they can spread misery and false information to get the weaker ones to cough up

Personally I now ignore the obvious hce,s and bailiffs and suggest we all do as otherwise the OP gets lost in our petty arguments

onlyme and many many more

Hi Onlyme - How are things with your case, have you managed to reach a full and final thats satisfactory. Hope all is well, been thinking of you

Mars have so far failed to reply to my witness statement/ defence as at the first hearing the solcitor hadnt rcieved my first defence which was along the lines of wrong arrears figure, I already had an agreement in place and not following precourt protocol

I spoke to them last week and they said they are still going for a suspended possession order and I am reducing the arrears monthlyWhihc I told them they were just throwing good money after bad as they wouldnt win it!!

Their business model is similar to DCA that buy bad debts they buy for a % of the O/S mortgage and then go for the jugular and reposses or no in our case but if you fancy a punt and ask them fora settlement figure you might be able to come out with some equity even at todays property prices You could either move home or maybe if possible remortgage or maybe rent and keep the cash difference if you went for it

No major worries about a rematch for me at this time and no date set

Well Done again

and thanks for your concern

Onlyme

You need to change your name to winner now!!!

Well done and thanks for showing us all that no matter how hard the going gets that the secret to success is never never giving in.

Onlyme

subbing

I dont think that high court enforcement companies have heard of a the benefits of scale, a large company should be able to offer FAR LOWER fees as they will have staff in indian call centres or many more low paid staff carrying out the admin. A single HCEO will however if working alone not having all of this back up and therfore his fees would be higher however if you are not happy follow this advice

See the thread

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bailiffs-sheriff-officers/219735-sherfarce-fraud-deception.html WON!!!!

This is normally how an HCEO operates he comes along with a WPA that most of us dont sign they will present you with a statement or letter that shows that they have levied and valued something (or not as in my case and one or 2 others) at this pont they have tried to charge you fees in the region of £1000 with more to come from subsequent visits and if you are daft enough to pay it then they get away with it unless you then start the process of pursuing them

by

1/Ask for a Statement of costs

2/ request a Subject access report

3/go through it with a fine tooth comb to find all the anomolies such as visits that havent happened levies that havent taken place, valuations that havent happened etc etc etc.

4/ complain to the police about fraud if levies or WPA not done (happycontrails /Nintendo templates are great)

5/Wait for the police to tell you its a civil mater and then send 2nd letter to the police telling them its not and that the chief constable would be included in any action( this usualy gets them to look at it a bit more seriously)

6/ complain to the HCEO that the fees are not as set out in regulation and send a letter before action

7/If as in my case you were daft enough to pay all the fees they asked for as you didnt know the law File a claim in the county court for the refund of the incorrect fees and............

8/wait for HCEO to run to the high court in an interpleader(fee assesment) hearing put in front of a master(judge) so that they can agree what should have been charged

They do not have control of the hearing and the master does have to comply with the law SF HAVE to provide evidence of costs and visits etc this is the key to winning:wink:

The fees that they try to get away with is miscellaneous fees under regulation 12 and this is where you need to be prepared to ask them for evidence of costs:wink:

Another little ruse that have used is that they apply to assess the original statement of costs and then get a clever cost clerk to make figures on another sheet addup to it and the master might fall for it to a certain degree

oh BTW he (cost clerk) quietly forgets the original money they asked for included valuations and visits that didnt happen so they dont show on sheet no 2 but the sums are still the same!!!!

Therefore the Subject Access Request is vital

If you need help in the high court I am more than willing to help you as a litigants friend

HCEO are easy to beat in the high court and the more I get to know the the more confident I am knowing exactly what they are allowed to charge and the tactics they use to throw you off track.

They are very skilled at what they do and you need to be wary of those tactics

In my case they are hiding behind a no further action against the HCEO that the master ordered but this is not good enough to stop me from continuing to pile on the pressure

All of the above of course is assuming that you are the victim of an officer of the the crown(HCEo)overcharging you and we all know that he/she wouldnt do that to you dont we??

I dont know how to beat them by not paying other than sh..t..g yourself at every knock on the door, and waiting for them to get bored

I was lucky I had started a new job and had been paid so I got rid of the agro first and then started to turn on them

If you need help then post up and ask it is on here for you dont be afraid of them

The boot can be on the other foot !!!!

onlyme and many many more the number of cases is growing daily!!!!

Most importantly I forgot to thank CAG(suitable donations already made) and all who contributed at a time when I felt vulnerable.

You can win against these people the law is on our side!!!!

Onlyme

At last Sherforce have coughed up!!!

£783 cheque recieved and cleared into my account!!

The police investigation is still ongoing and I expect to hear more in the next few days

I am not letting this go

I have requested an appeal of the interpleader even though I won and expect an answer to this next week.

Onlyme and many more

HW it would be best to ask the questions on your original thread otherwise your advice/advisors might get lost and not follow your situation

You are high jacking ano's thread here (dont worry I did it all the time at first) if you have any Questions copy and paste fron the thread and I and others will stay upto speed with you

keep up the good work you are on the right lines at this time with regard to the assesment hearing as it will force SF to apply and save you from paying for it unfortunately it is not easy to speed things up.

Onlyme

Hi, in December I came home to find a letter had been put through the door from Sherforce, stating that they had come for payment of £1609.81 (at the time obviously interest was being charged hourly!!). WE HAD NO NOTIFICATION. We went into a panic, I got my partner home from work and he rang then and RBS to whom a small amount of this money was owed, but they did not want to know.

The amount of judgement or order was £693.50

Interest on judgement was £3.45

Costs of execution was £101.75

charges by HCEO £811.11

TOTAL: £1609.81

 

My partner receives monthly statements from RBS then recently had a statement from RBs clearly stating that the amount owed was £374.94. RBS had passed the debt to Optima Legal Services, so we really could not understand how this had come about.

 

Anyhow we asked my Dad to lend us the money which he paid the following day of £1611.86 as we were very worried about our kids and possessions. Then 3 days later a letter came through the post stating they had possession of our goods (which I thought they could only get if they got in) so my Dad rang and had words with them, they said it was an error.

 

I wrote and requested a breakdown of the matter

Judgement Debt £1307.50

Judgement Costs £0.00

Execution Costs £101.75

Interest @ 8% pa £3.15

PLUS Sherforce charges £813.46

(sherforce charges are Initials Attendance Fee £175.00, Financial Management Fee £160.00, Administration Fee £300.00 and Debit Card Fee £1.00. This Totals £707.35 + VAT £106.11 Total Sherforce charges £813.46)

LESS any monies received by Sherforce £1611.86

LESS any credits notified to Sherforce £614.00

Written Off by Sherforce 0.00

Outstanding Amount Due £0.00

 

Then Percentage of amount recovered £22.48

Mileage Incurred £0.00

Seizure Fee £2.00

Making Enquiries or Dealing with Claims For Rent or To the Goods £4.00

Walking Possession Fee £1.50

Valuation Fee £41.37

 

I would dearly love someone to tell me that what they have done is wrong, what they have charged is wrong and that this should not have happened.

Welcome to CAG I and many others will tell you what they have done is very wrong!!!! but you are in the right place to sort them out and get some of your money back

Is it legal to take to high court they initial debt (ie RBS provided up to £1000 of credit with Ebuyer) the debt owed on May 2007 was £988.84 and due to the failure of my partners business we had to pay not only this debt but others also. He was advise by all government funded debt guidance to go bankrupt but he wouldn;t he ended up going with Baines and Earnst so they pay a percentage to each debt he had. RBS were receiving £30.00 per month out of the £192 we pay out each month. At the last statement we only owed RBS £374.94. So could they take to court £988.84 less payments but add on other stuff??

 

I have sent letters to RBS, Optima Legal Services and The Northampton Bulk Centre (county court place) for copies of any paperwork they can provide me as it does not add up at all.

 

I am glad I had a rant now! If anyone can provide me with help as to whether the charges are 'right' (I use the word loosely) I would be grateful

x

Sherforce are renowned for making charges in excess of what they are allowed to as set out in regulation.

I dont know about DMP but I do know how sherforce work

so I will guide you from this position and others will help too

Guys the position is very simple as far as sherforce go

They come along with a WPA that most of us dont sign they will present you with a statement or letter that shows that they have levied and valued something (or not as in my case and one or 2 others) at this pont they have tried to charge you fees in the region of £1000 with more to come from subsequent visits and if you are daft enough to pay it then they get away with it unless you then start the process of pursuing them

by

1/Ask for a Statement of costs

2/ request a Subject access report

3/go through it with a fine tooth comb to find all the anomolies such as visits that havent happened levies that havent taken place, valuations that havent happened etc etc etc.

4/ complain to the police about fraud if levies or WPA not done (happycontrails /Nintendo templates are great)

5/Wait for the police to tell you its a civil mater and then send 2nd letter to the police telling them its not and that the chief constable would be included in any action( this usualy gets them to look at it a bit more seriously)

6/ complain to sherforce that the fees are not as set out in regulation and send a letter before action

7/If as in my case you were daft enough to pay all the fees they asked for as you didnt know the law File a claim in the county court for the refund of the incorrect fees and............

8/wait for sherforce to run to the high court in an interpleader(fee assesment) hearing put in front of a master(judge) so that they can agree what should have been charged

They do not have control of the hearing and the master does have to comply with the law SF HAVE to provide evidence of costs and visits etc this is the key to winning:wink:

The fees that they try to get away with is miscellaneous fees under regulation 12 and this is where you need to be prepared to ask them for evidence of costs:wink:

Another little ruse that have used is that they apply to assess the original statement of costs and then get a clever cost clerk to make figures on another sheet addup to it and the master might fall for it to a certain degree

oh BTW he (cost clerk) quietly forgets the original money they asked for included valuations and visits that didnt happen so they dont show on sheet no 2 but the sums are still the same!!!!

Therefore the Subject Access Request is vital

If you need help in the high court I am more than willing to help you as a litigants friend

Sherforce are easy to beat in the high court and the more I get to know the the more confident I am knowing exactly what they are allowed to charge and the tactics they use to throw you off track.

They are very skilled at what they do and you need to be wary of those tactics

In my case they are hiding behind a no further action against the HCEO that the master ordered but this is not good enough to stop me from continuing to pile on the pressure

All of the above of course is assuming that you are the victim of an officer of the the crown(HCEo)overcharging you and we all know that he/she wouldnt do that to you dont we??

I dont know how to beat them by not paying other than sh..t..g yourself at every knock on the door, and waiting for them to get bored

I was lucky I had started a new job and had been paid so I got rid of the agro first and then started to turn on them

If you need help then post up and ask it is on here for you dont be afraid of them

The boot can be on the other foot !!!!

onlyme and many many more the number of cases is growing daily!!!!

As expected we have had no reply from Marston's (except a letter closing the file on our first complaint!!!) so we have contacted our solicitor who is sending a letter to the Association of Civil Enforcement Agents. Whether this will do any good or not we will have to wait and see.

WIth respect to your solicitor a letter to the hceo assoc will not progress the complaint very quickly if at all

I sugest that he writes a LBA to marstons and notify that you will be claiming in the small claims court and continuing to pursue police action for potential fraud this will get their attention far more quickly

Onlyme

Guys I personally have had enough pointless conversations with HCE I think it is time to ignore his comments as all we are doing is feeding his over inflated ego.

Communication in writing is always very difficult and whilst he may feel that he is being constructive I never seem to get a answers to the questions unless it is distorted in some way or other

LETS IGNORE THE HCE AND GET ON WITH LOOKING AFTER THE VULNERABLE

HCE will soon go away if we ignore him

I for one will not reply to his posts nor take any of his "advice" seriously as he cannot or will not even try to understand that charging £1000 for one visit and 2 incoming telephone calls is not acceptable

PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO ANY MORE OF HCE POSTS HE WILL SOON GO AWAY

Onlyme