The levy fees for when goods are not removed are calculated as 5% of the value of the goods, although it is accepted by the Masters that this 5% of the sums due.

 

Nintendo Pu (or Happy Contrails as pointed out on another post) will have you believe that HCEOs can only charge pennies for collecting a debt of say £2000, no matter how many visits. He disregards the fact that some fees are applied under regulation 13.12 (Miscellaneous). In ohitsonlyme's detailed assesment the Master allowed many of these fees (and reduced some also) and these are for all to see on this forum.

Please tell us what charges are allowed for 1 visit with no one in and no levy taken place and no writ served on the debtor

 

He also claims that these fees have to be applied for in a costs order before they can be charged, but once again he is wrong.

 

When he was Happy Contrails he posted the same letter templates misadvising the forum and eventually costing at least one defendant I know several hundred pounds for nothing.

 

If you feel you've been overcharged, by all means ask for a detailed assessment and let the Master decide. NO NO NO Dont ask for an assessment hearing ask for the SAR, pick it to pieces and then follow NPus letters to the police and issue a claim in the county court for incorrect fees (after LBA) this will then force the hceo to apply for the cost hearing and save you money, I believe that you could also get you CC fees back I forgot to ask in my case but it was this that forved the interpleader If you have, like ohitsonlyme, you'll be refunded and get your costs. You can then parade your victory around this forum...

I HAVE NOT BEEN REPAID MY FEES !!!!! or costs so unless you know something I dont I am continuing my pursuit of the OC and SF

My police investigation continues,( but too slowly for my liking) This will change as I am getting impatient!!

Again if you would like to meet (other than in court because you seem to know a lot about my case) the offer still stands

I also have not been parading victory simply stating facts that Sf charge fees that are not allowed in law and helping others that think they are victims of overcharging by whosoever

 

Oh, and postggj, I'm sure yoiu know where to find the regulations but if not please Google 'High Court Enforcement Officers Regulations 2004 Schedule 3 Regulation 13'

HCE I ask you many questions that you cannot or will not answer in relation to when and how a writ should be issued to a debtor and at what point a levy is valid and should be charged you are a clever person and clearly understand the issues involved

To date you do not answer any of these question and often only continue to snipe rather than guide us to the regulations

If you really want to improve your industry and in the long term have less problems clients and debtors why not help us by answerring the questions I pose or setting up a meeting so that together we can set the issues straight.

Onlyme and many others

hardworking-harddoneby you say you're easy targets?

 

I have been watching with interest as I am a landlord also.

 

You complain that your previous landlord obtained judgment against you for unpaid rent and now you're not paying the rent on this one.

SB You clearly havent read the circumstances or understood it

You need to take a long hard look at your financial responsibilties as far as I can see.

HW is doing this by stopping false claims against her goods

 

If you cant afford to rent you should contact the local authorities for help!!!

Typical of the bullying tactics of a bailiff if you ask me!!!

This is an advice forum to help people not to condem them

If you were to read this thread fully you would see that HW does take her responsibilities seriously and I for one would be happy to have her for a tenant based on this thread

I have many properties which means that I have responsibilities to the tenants as it is them that make us rich and pay our mortgages.

Onlyme and many many more

Sarah speak to the agents that you are letting from now and ask them why they want you out when you are upto date (I assume you are)

This is where you need to win them over as they can enforce a section 21 fairly easily because your agreement is on a monthly basis but no landlord wants an empty property

As an alternative route if you get nowhere with the agents you can speak directly to your landlord they dont want to have a void in tenancy and might be being led by the agents I certainly wouldnt throw you out it is an absolute nightmare having voids and no payments

You will need to find out why they want you out

If you call them on a mobile phone some phones can record conversations

start doing that with anyting that is important you never know when you might find a golden nugget

Onlyme

HI Sarah we can all tell from the ay your posts have changed that you are fighting back and not only that but winning too!!

I am a landlord and it si difficut to get tenants out I think that your previous landlord probably claimed for loss of rent in the tenancy agreement and you can fight this as they gave you notice to quit therfore you probably dont owe them mcuh if anything!!

in your current situaton have you got an AST and if so how long to run because they cant simply throw you out on 1/2/10

You have rights and are clever enough and strong enough to fight for them

onlyme

Hiya,

Thanks for reply, yeah we have a notice seeking possesion expiring 1/2/2010, section 21 (4) (a)

 

xxxxx

For section 21 to apply on the date they request you would have to be either in default with your rent or some other breeach or not have a tenancy agreement even then you dont have to move out they would have to apply to the courts for possesion but it is an accelarated route that they are using

Do you have a tenancy agreeement

How long have you got left to run on your agreement?

If you are with professional lettings company with the help of CAG we should be able to fight off the section 21 once you have got rid of the alledged hceo issues

I think they are just running scared due to the issues going on with your previuous landlord

onlyme

The interpretation of what happens is the key to all this. Some companies put all their charges down before the HCEO has even left the office to attend the Debtor. Management fees, Valuation fees etc all under this Misc heading, the same as when they attend they claim to have seized all your goods and chattels which now belong to the HCEO. All you see at the bottom of a sheet is the total you have to pay on the spot.

 

They work on the principle:

a - you don't know

b - you won't challenge

c - you'll pay up just to get rid

 

If you then decide "whoa that was a lot for a small initial sum" the first approach is for a breakdown of all the fees charged. Only then can you see you have been charged all these Misc fees and fees for work not done. Next step is to challenge and submit SAR as opposed to asking for statement. The SAR should include the Field Officers report - does it tally with what happened, more importantly you should also get an "activity report" which lists everything that happened since the file was opened - it includes times and dates of when charges were applied.

 

If you then challenge and possibly even allege you have been defrauded for work and fees that were never done you could end up in front of a Master in the High Court - some fees may be allowed or lowered and others thrown out. In extreme cases the whole lot may be thrown out or conversely it may go against you.

 

These fees no doubt were at some stage designed with a few things in mind and knowing the mindset of some of the Companies now they are exploiting every avenue to screw money out of the Debtor.

 

Someone has asked if I can provide proof of any of the above. Yes I can and have at present sight of at least 4 different cases where this has occurred using more than 1 company. I am however not prepared to name names as some of these still have outstanding issues with the Companies concerned and I would not wish to jeopardise their future chances.

 

This is another matter that needs to come under close scrutiny in any review of enforcement activities.

 

I am not a Bailiff, HCEO, Solicitor or anything connected to these professions. I did once work as a Bailiff for a very reputable company but that must have been nearly 20 years ago. My only interest is to see Justice served properly and to try and help those in need.

 

PT

WOW PT Your summary is absolutely spot on

and exactly what happened in my case

HCE has not yet answerred any of the questions about when and how do HCEOs apply charges that show on the first visit even before showing the debtor the writ

Comments from the other side please HCE and others

onlyme and many many more

HCE I have copied this from another post of mine so that I dont take that thread off track

can you help ??

Quote:

Originally Posted by High Court Enforcer

Nintendo Pu, under the order of a Writ of Fi Fa, the HCEO is comanded to seize in execution the goods, chattels and other property of the defendant and raise the judgment sums plus the HCEO's fees and charges.

Just like Happy C, you are misinforming the forum based on your limited legal knowledge.

HCE I can see maybe some positives in one or two of your posts and perhaps you can clarify a couple of things from your point of view and presumably from the legal position as seen by a hceo

When is a writ deemed to have been served on an individual does the individual have to have seen the writ or have been told about it to be cahrged fees by the hceo and at what point do fees start being incurred such as levy and valuation ?

regs say the max cost for the first visit is £50 (or mileage at 29 p) how can a first visit be justified at £150

I ask these questions of you in good faith as I want to learn how the law is interpretted from your side of the fence

onlyme

Its all to do with the Section C 'miscellaenous' reasonable costs clause in the HCEO regulations. HCEO's use this to add a list of fees with a sum of money attached to them, and its up to the debtor to dispute them.

Np I am trying to find the information from HCE not challenge it in other ways

The fees I am asking about are not in relation to miscellaneous fees but specific items on a statement of costs issued on a first visit ie levy valuation and first visit cost

miscellaneous fees are normally debtor services fees, admin fees etc and I do not want to know about these at this time

Time will show that I have a point to discuss if HCE can be kind enough to provide the information as seen from the other side of the fence

onlyme

removed by onlyme to get Op back on track

Looks as if this is going to be easier than I thought. PM if you are still interested and I will give you the details.

Ofcourse I am interested Let me know what you need and I will help you to get it.

Onlyme and many,many others

Getting back to the regulations for a minute, I have just noticed something else.

 

Part 4, Section 13(2) says:

 

"Where the execution of a writ of fieri facias is completed by sale, fees 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 (1) and 7 under Schedule 3 may be levied by deducting them from the proceeds of sale."

 

Am I missing something here, but this reads to me that fees can only be levied if goods are seized and sold.

 

In other words, the HCEO only gets his money if he actually gets his hands on saleable goods belonging to the debtor and then sells them.

 

Also, Schedule 3 which lists the fee structure refers to "Percentage of amount recovered".

 

How can an HCEO calculate any sort of percentage anyway if no goods have actually been sold? Or even valued for that matter? Yet these charges appear on my financial statement.

 

Maybe it's just me being thick but this is the way the regulations read.

Looks like fraud to me see section 2 fraud act 2006:

Guys the position is very simple as far as sherforce go

They come along with a WPA that most of us dont sign they will present you with a statement or letter that shows that they have levied and valued something (or not as in my case and one or 2 others) at this pont they have tried to charge you fees in the region of £1000 with more to come from subsequent visits and if you are daft enough to pay it then they get away with it unless you then start the process of pursuing them

by

1/Ask for a Statement of costs

2/ request a Subject access report

3/go through it with a fine tooth comb to find all the anomolies such as visits that havent happened levies that havent taken place, valuations that havent happened etc etc etc.

4/ complain to the police about fraud if levies or WPA not done (happycontrails /Nintendo templates are great)

5/Wait for the police to tell you its a civil mater and then send 2nd letter to the police telling them its not and that the chief constable would be included in any action( this usualy gets them to look at it a bit more seriously)

6/ complain to sherforce that the fees are not as set out in regulation and send a letter before action

7/If as in my case you were daft enough to pay all the fees they asked for as you didnt know the law File a claim in the county court for the refund of the incorrect fees and............

8/wait for sherforce to run to the high court in an interpleader(fee assesment) hearing put in front of a master(judge) so that they can agree what should have been charged

They do not have control of the hearing and the master does have to comply with the law SF HAVE to provide evidence of costs and visits etc this is the key to winning;)

The fees that they try to get away with is miscellaneous fees under regulation 12 and this is where you need to be prepared to ask them for evidence of costs;)

Another little ruse that have used is that they apply to assess the original statement of costs and then get a clever cost clerk to make figures on another sheet addup to it and the master might fall for it to a certain degree

oh BTW he (cost clerk) quietly forgets the original money they asked for included valuations and visits that didnt happen so they dont show on sheet no 2 but the sums are still the same!!!!

Therefore the SAR is vital

If you need help in the high court I am more than willing to help you as a litigants friend

Sherforce are easy to beat in the high court and the more I get to know the the more confident I am knowing exactly what they are allowed to charge and the tactics they use to throw you off track.

They are very skilled at what they do and you need to be wary of those tactics

In my case they are hiding behind a no further action against the HCEO that the master ordered but this is not good enough to stop me from continuing to pile on the pressure

All of the above of course is assuming that you are the victim of an officer of the the crown(HCEo)overcharging you and we all know that he/she wouldnt do that to you dont we??

I dont know how to beat them by not paying other than sh..t..g yourself at every knock on the door, and waiting for them to get bored

I was lucky I had started a new job and had been paid so I got rid of the agro first and then started to turn on them

If you need help then post up and ask it is on here for you dont be afraid of them

The boot can be on the other foot !!!!

Ohitsonlyme and many many more

Great Idea NP

I will throw some cash in to create this website anyone know what the budget should be and someone to draw it up for us??

Onlyme

You can count me in !!!

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bailiffs-sheriff-officers/237675-sherforce-fraud-investigation-prosecution.html

Thanks for the advice. I had a shock today as I actually got a reply to my email to Sherforce asking for a breakdown of fees! They sent it as a Word document with an image file embedded. I am going to try and embed it in this post.

 

They seem to have gone to great lengths to justify the ludicrous charges by quoting from HCEO regulations. It should be noted that the majority of costs fall under the miscellaneous section of the regulations, which state that these costs have to be approved, plus £625 for taking my car, which I got back anyway. I signed NO Walking Possession which they have charged me for.

 

I am not sure which parts I can challenge and would be very grateful for any advice.

 

Thanks,

 

DebtWeary

On this alone you appear to be the victim of fraud, follow nintendo pu,s letters to the chief constable in your county, be prepared to be fobbed off and then send the second letter I have copies if you need them

You are added to my list

Onlyme

Just a thought if you can get the OC to give you a statement showing that you dont owe them anything and relating this to the CCJ/writ fifa this could get SF off your back

Try this but be careful in the way you ask for it,ie ask for a letter saying it has been paid in full and that you now owe them nothing, if you get a little clerk in the office you might get this through the back door without them realising that they will have to pay SF's fees!!

onlyme

Thanks Nintendo, I haven't paid any of their fees, only the original Judgement Debt.

 

Do you think I should respond to their letter and say that I might get the police involved?

It is well documented that SF charge for things they havent done, so you need to get your paperwork in place once youve got it all in order then you can attack them not the other way round, until this time they will continue to harrass you

Telling SF that the police are involved will not help you in any way they will simply ignore it and continue to chase you for the money.

You could try to get the OC to stop SF by telling them that they have recieved their money, unfortunately its not that easy as Sf will then try to get their fees from the OC ,so this wont happen and they come back to you.

You do need to send a SAR although this route is slower the police action will not stop anything and you are also likely to be fobbed off by them anyway.

You cannot complain to th police unless you have a valid proof of fraud and this again starts from the SAr.

In your case it is likely to show visits, levies and valuations that didnt take place,it is at this point you can get the police to investigate under the fraud act 2006 and follow nintendos letters.

Until you either get SF back to court with an interpleader or they pay for it over their fees (and I can help you with this) you will still be harrassed by them chasing their fees so you need to keep them out of the house and any cars you own away.

one saving grace is that they dont have your name on the paperwork, but am not sure how much this will help

Is your name and address varied greatly or just a spelling mistake

If you can prove fraud I will add you to the growing list of disputes to give to the police

Keep on posting

onlyme

subbing

Onlyme & Wonkeydonkey

 

My understanding of Interpleader Orders is that a HCEO may have seized goods/effects Or taken money to which there is some uncertainty over ownership. The HCEO should be asking the Claimant if they either agree or dispute this claim. If they agree then any action is the dropped and any goods/effects returned to the person claiming them. If the Claimant disputes the ownership then the Interpleader goes ahead and a Master makes the decision.

 

There should therefore be listed on any documentation:

The Claimant/Creditorlisted

The HCEO not listed

The Defendant/Debtor listed

The Interpleader Claimant llisted as the OC

 

 

It follows that any claim made by the Interpleader Claimant are served on all the other parties in the case + 1 copy for the Master. These are the people that should be attending any hearing. From what you both say it appears that neither of your Claimant/Creditors have any knowledge of these proceedings. They didnt know til I told them In WD's case it would seem he has costs awarded against the Claimant who if they deny any knowledge will possibly apply to have the Masters Order Set Aside thus denying him monies he has laid out to defend his good nameI am in the same position I therefore want the master to remove the protective clause and then I can continue my county court claim

 

PT

PT Both cases are similar my claimant /creditor was not aware of any proceedings nor in fact the effect of them.

The Bodger does have a draft order written in preparation to give to the master assuming that SF win the case but in my case they didnt win however theprotection clause is there and I wasnt aware of it as

A/ I wasnt given a copy of the draft before the master wrote on it to alter it and

B the order is then given back to the bodger to draw up/type which in my case also came quickly.

I had a very good relationship with my claimant before the recession, it is a large firm of solicitors and I am goiing to continue keeping them involved as I am sure they will eventually come on my side, But I first have to push them knowing that they are responsible.

They didnt knowI had won in the high court and were told that I hadnt by SF!!so they thought I was trying to bully them to get my SF costs back now that they know certain things they are beginnging to swing my way and they realise SF told them lies or not all the truth any way

In future cases we need to advise others to tell the OC to attend the hearing as it is them in the dock not SF!!

The next most important thing is that the hceo is made to provide evidence of costs not just a costs clerks interpretation of time spent which in my case was aload of old BS

the cost clerks workings had no relationship to the statment of costs that I paid in full in 10 days and this is another reason I am appealing I paid against a document that was defended with a made up document!! I blew holes in the statement of costs and should have had a much bigger award, again its not the money that is at stake here its the principle of how these hearings are run.

Does the actual Order from the proceedings on the day state that the HCEO is protected from further action? Do you remember this being said and did you agree to it? If no then who produced the Order - the Master or some other person sitting in, it may be to prove this that you may have to ask for a transcript of the proceedings. If subsequently it can be proved that this was never discussed or agreed to then surely anything else that happened that day should also be in question and if someone is making this up as they go along then again their reputation is at stake particularly if they have been in a similar position in other cases.

 

PT

The bodger drew up a draft order in the first hearing and this was included in it it so I didnt know about it till afterwards

Then in the second hearing I raised an objection which the master stated didnt stop criminal action but it doesnt stop them from showing to peeps that dont know any better ( but should) like the county court or the police

Shame it wasnt made up tho isnt it !!!!

I am on their case like S on a blanket

You can use this as a base for your reasons for recovering a card transaction by way of chargeback, but if you intend to claim interest, costs and any other monetary losses, then litigation is the only way to go with this.

I am going to ask for all of the money back that they were paid!!! and then pay the OC direct

Will need to find out clearly if OC has been paid tho I dont think they have.especially of you follow wonkey donkeys story

 

 

Then you will have a crime number. File your litigation on a Form N1 and remember to include the crime number in your particulars, you can name both the creditor and the HCEO as joint defendants. The court will most likely decide the HCEO will be laible for paying you the money they owe.

I had already put in a claim thro the county court before the interpleader however SF requested a stay and got it by quoting the masters orders!!!

 

 

 

Go for a set-aside but I dont have much experience of this, or know of any legislation that eneables a Master to revoke criminal liability after a criminal has committed the offence. By giving this "protection" could be interpreted as the court acknowledging the HCEO has indeed committed the crime.

 

I really dont know what authority or legislation a Master is relying on when he "protects" an HCEO against criminal prosecution.They were not protected from criminal prosecution I specifically rasied this with the master only further civil action But SF use the masters order as a shield to show any body that tries to take things further so the set a side and further action thro the high court is my option at the moment, so if the police listen to the masters orders like the county court judge did then they get away with it again!! but a setaside will stop this from happening.I also want to challenge the fees that the master awarded as there was no evidence of costs from SF!!! In any event, I doubt this power protects an HCEO against a criminal investigation.

The OC is getting lots of letters from me and has a deadline of 7th jan for me to get my money back and I will file against them!! they were the named claimant in the interpleader and so it is against them that I have a judgment or is it??

onlyme

Was no Order made requiring them to pay within a certain time frame? In the meantime I think I would be at the Court door on Monday asking for this to be enforced - just think if it is for over £600 you could always use a HCEO firm - just a thought.

 

PT

I am owed over £700 but the masters order prevents further action on the HCEO so who do I pursue? OC or HCEO no time frame was set out by the master I think she thought I hadnt paid!!

onlyme

If doesnt matter how the verification is done. If a merchant makes a false representation to obtain the transaction, the consumer can apply a chargeback and the bailiff will have 40 days to appeal. Its in the standard terms of merchant service.

 

Only takes a phone call and a simple form to complete and in some cases be done online.

Pu I paid all the fees in my case to Sherfarce by debit card and won in the high court but havent yet been paid by SF after over 1 month since the interpleader hearing, I intend to pursue the Original creditor but ask

can I do a charge back on a debit card payment??

what is the best way of attacking the OC I already have a police investigation on the way with SF for fraud

And I Am going for a set aside of the masters protective ruling for the HCEO watch this space, I am not going to give them any way to turn with the police

onlyme

Subbing with interest

My investigation is on going and as such no answer from police yet

onlyme

Why is this illegal?

 

It is not unreasonable for the HCEO to seek company assets at a residential address. Many directors/employees have company vehicles and/or home office equipments at their home.

HoHo Ho and a merry xmas to you HCE why do you have to be the bearer of bad tidings or the prophet of doom

Can you not just help someone at this time of year

merry xmas from your adoring fan club

onlyme and 15 others