I have returned my part of the claim to the court stating that Ido not admit the claim and intend to contest it. This was done online within the stiipulated time and I also sent my CPR 31.14 request to Morgans by Recorded Delivery that they signed for on 25 November but they have failed to respond to my request to supply copies of both agreements referred to in their claim . This has obviously well exceeded the 7 day limit and they have not requested more time to supply. I now intend issuing an N244 to have the case struck out. What is your advice please?

Since my last post on 24 November I have sent the CPR 31.14 request to Morgans and they recieved this on 25th. They have not responded in the time period that I gave them nor have I heard anything further. I feel attack is probably the best form of defence so does anyone know whether I should now proceed with an application to have this claim struck out? If so wha\t is my next step? Any help will be appreciated.

You are absolutely right in what you say about CEOs. I am merely putting it to the test because I feel it is a sad fact of life that genuine customer service has gone out of the window and the big organisations don't give a toss any more. This reflects the world we live in don't you think but it hardly makes it right. But, as we have seen, the big boys don't always survive.

In my case it was Orange who was at fault. When they 'sold me' broadband they told me that my dial up account would automatically be cancelled only it wasn't and it took over a year to sort out. They don't seem at all organised on the customer service side either.

I don't know if this thread is still active but I too have had enormous problems with Orange who, when I transferred some time ago from dial up to Broadband continued to charge me for both. No number of letters or emails managed to resolve the problem and in the end I resorted to issuing a summons to get my money back in addition to charges I had added for my time, cost of letter writing etc. This promptly got the attention of their legal department who told me I could not charge them for my time. Like hell I couldn't. So I pressed on and after saying they would defend my court action they backed down. They then said their accounts dept would take 3-4 weeks to refund my money so I informed them that I would see them in court if their cheque including my charges didn't arrive within 7 days. My ploy worked and they coughed up. However, sinxce renewing my broadband subscription in August the problems have started again and they are trying to tell me that I am now on Pay As You Go for not paying my account. I was also told that I had cancelled a satellite TV system with them that I have never had. The company is a shambles. I have written twice to their CEO but I am still waiting for a personal reply. My next step is to take them to Trading Standards.

Thanks Andy I'd like to get it sorted tomorrow or Friday latest for peace of mind so your kind help is appreciated. Regards Heathrow

Oh dear me. Come on guys ... let's drop the handbags business we are all trying to be helping each other here and I certainly need help and I am grateful to those that are giving it. Right then ... to return to the business at hand, Andy you are telling me to add the line in RED that you have confirmed. Other than this do you feel this is ready to submit?

Yes, Andy I have read through this thread several times before.What is your point please? Are you saying I should not use the term 'embarrassed defence' and also to add the line you have inserted in red? Sorry to be a bit naive about this but I am getting on in years.

Sorry guys ...some gliches in the system here and the the last post told me to resend and has appeared twice.

Thanks Andy for your assistance. I realise I have got longer to file my defence at is 14 days from service fo the claim and NOT as i had thought 14 days from issue date. So a bit more time is good to get this right. The following shows the defence with the changes I have made following your advice. I should be receiving the County Court practice book today so this will also be useful to get my head round a few things. 4. a) The Particulars of Claim are vague and insufficient and do not disclose an adequate statement of facts relating to or proceeding the alleged cause of action. No particulars are offered in relation to the nature of the contracts referred to, the method the Claimant calculated any outstanding sums due, or any default notices issued or any other matters necessary to substantiate the Claimant's claim. b) A copy of one of the two purported 'assignments' that the Claimant cites in the Particulars of Claim, and which appears to form the basis upon which these proceedings have been brought, has not been served or provided for clarification. On the other account mentioned in the Particulars of Claim two different letters have been received on 12 November quoting different amounts and assignment dates for the same account which the Claimant claims to be ‘notices of assignment’. 5. The Claimant did not send a letter before action for one of the two claims applicable to this action as required under the Pre-Action Protocols. 6. Because the Claimant has so far failed to disclose and clarify appropriate information to support either of the two assignment mentioned in the Particulars of Claim, requested pursuant to CPR 31, this leaves the Defendant at a disadvantage and unable to plead effectively or at all. Even if the Defendant were able to plead they should be allowed to plead effectively to each account on its’ own merit. The Defendant is embarrassed in pleading to the Claim as it stands. 7. Because the Claimant has not provided any documents to support the particulars of claim, and as such have shown no provision within the terms and conditions of either account mentioned therein, which would allow interest to be applied after the termination of either account, therefore as the Claimant has not provided proof of the two debts or the sums claimed the Defendant denies the Claimants claim for interest pursuant to S.69 of the County Court Act 1984. Cheers

I have revised the defence as per below. Are there any other parts that you feel should be deleted? 1. I xxxxxxxxxxx, am the defendant in this action and make the following statement as a defence to the claim made by Cabot Financial (UK) Limited. 2. Except where otherwise mentioned in this defence, I neither admit nor deny any allegation made in the Claimant’s Particulars of Claim and put the Claimant to strict proof thereof. 3. The Defendant notes that the Claimant has combined two separate account sums in their particulars of claim in an attempt to conveniently wholly dispose of them in the same proceedings under CPR 7.3, however each sum involves separate accounts with their own original lender, account references, terms, conditions and legal status and cannot possibly be “conveniently” disposed of in a single claim, therefore CPR 7.3 cannot apply in this instance. 4. a) The Particulars of Claim are vague and insufficient and do not disclose an adequate statement of facts relating to or proceeding the alleged cause of action. No particulars are offered in relation to the nature of the contracts referred to, the method the Claimant calculated any outstanding sums due, or any default notices issued or any other matters necessary to substantiate the Claimant's claim. b) A copy of the purported 'assignment' that the Claimant cites in the Particulars of Claim, and which appears to form the basis upon which these proceedings have been brought, has not been served on the Defendant for clarification. 5. The Claimant did not send a letter relating to one of these two claims before action applicable to this action as required under the Pre-Action Protocols. 6. The Claimant has so far failed to disclose and clarify appropriate information to support the Particulars of Claim, requested pursuant to CPR 31, which leaves the Defendant at a disadvantage and unable to plead effectively or at all. Even if the Defendant were able to plead they should be allowed to plead effectively to each account on its’ own merit. The Defendant is embarrassed in pleading to the Claim as it stands. 7. Because the Claimant has not provided any documents to support the particulars of claim and as such have shown no provision within the terms and conditions of either account which would allow interest to be applied after the termination of either account, therefore as the Claimant has not provided proof of the debt or the sums claimed the Defendant denies the Claimants claim for interest pursuant to S.69 of the County Court Act 1984. 8. The Defendant has written to the Claimant for an extension of deadline for filing a defence pursuant to CPR 15.5, however the Claimant has not, thus far acknowledged or agreed to the request which in turn has also put the Defendant at a disadvantage for filing a defence, by not allowing enough time to file a suitably amended defence once requested points of clarification have been received. 9. The Defendant denies that they are indebted to the Claimant for the sum of £xxxxx, including costs and puts the Claimant to strict proof of this sum.

Yes this is a Northampton bulk centre document and follows the normal Cabot/Morgan pattern as other have described by giving only the basic information. PARTICULARS OF CLAIM The claimant is the assignee of Debt(s) from Capital One Credit card reference xxxxxxxx Barclaycard Credit card reference xxxxxx Notice of Assignment having been given to the Defendant in writing. Despite demand for payment £xxxxx remains due. The claimant claims £xxxxx and interest Under the s.69 County Courts Act and costs. I have written a letter to be posted tomorrow to Morgans requesting under CPR 31.14 copies of the agreements, demands for payment and the notices of assignment. The action relating to one of these credit cards has come out of the blue; the other they sent two different letters on Barclaycard letterheadings for the same account but with different amounts that Cabot claim to be notices of assignment. They look too contrived to me to be real. Does this help? Regards Heathrow

I think she has been like me; spent many hours reading through posts to try and reach the right conclusions about how to proceed with a defence. Do we know how she has got on? This whole debt collection business is a sham (rather like the banks). I tried to get changes before Parliament about a year ago but had no response from several letters to Jack Straw (well, why should I sound surprised?) and my local Tory took up the issue but got nowhere. It is time that selling debts was made illegal because it has given birth to all kinds of pariahs that are profiteeting from those of us that are less fortunate. But, isn't greed behind most of the problems in this country? Sorry; rant over.

Cheers Any comments yet on my post please as I have got to get this sent tomorrow? Regards, Heathrow

Hi Andy I have based my defence on that of Mysticpols' as per the following. do you think this is okay to file? 1. I, xxxxxxxxxx, am the defendant in this action and make the following statement as a defence to the claim made by xxxxxx 2. Except where otherwise mentioned in this defence, I neither admit nor deny any allegation made in the Claimant’s Particulars of Claim and put the Claimant to strict proof thereof. 3. The Defendant notes that the Claimant has combined two separate account sums in their particulars of claim in an attempt to conveniently wholly dispose of them in the same proceedings under CPR 7.3, however each sum involves separate accounts with their own original lender, account references, terms, conditions and legal status and cannot possibly be “conveniently” disposed of in a single claim, therefore CPR 7.3 cannot apply in this instance. 4. a)The Particulars of Claim are vague and insufficient and do not disclose an adequate statement of facts relating to or proceeding the alleged cause of action. No particulars are offered in relation to the nature of the contracts referred to, the method the Claimant calculated any outstanding sums due, or any default notices issued or any other matters necessary to substantiate the Claimant's claim. b) A copy of the purported 'assignment' that the Claimant cites in the Particulars of Claim, and which appears to form the basis upon which these proceedings have been brought, has not been served, attached to the claim form or provided for clarification. 5. The Claimant did not send a letter before action applicable to this action as required under the Pre-Action Protocols. 6. The Claimant has so far failed to disclose and clarify appropriate information to support the Particulars of Claim, requested pursuant to CPR 31, which leaves the Defendant at a disadvantage and unable to plead effectively or at all. Even if the Defendant were able to plead they should be allowed to plead effectively to each account on its’ own merit. The Defendant is embarrassed in pleading to the Claim as it stands. 7. The Claimant has not provided any documents to support the particulars of claim and as such have shown no provision within the terms and conditions of either account which would allow interest to be applied after the termination of either account, therefore as the Claimant has not provided proof of the debt or the sums claimed the Defendant denies the Claimants claim for interest pursuant to S.69 of the County Court Act 1984. 8. The Defendant has written to the Claimant for an extension of deadline for filing a defence pursuant to CPR 15.5, however the Claimant has not, thus far acknowledged or agreed to the request which in turn has also put the Defendant at a disadvantage for filing a defence, by not allowing enough time to file a suitably amended defence once requested points of clarification have been received. 9. The Defendant denies that they are indebted to the Claimant for the sum of £xxxx, including costs and puts the Claimant to strict proof of this sum. AND the Defendant; 10. Seeks an order that the Claimant’s action is struck out under CPR 3.4.2 (a), or otherwise dismissed because the claimant has breached CPR 7.3, has failed to support their Particulars of Claim with the relevant documentation and on the grounds that any claim cannot succeed and that the Claimant do pay the Defendant’s costs incurred in defending this action. To avoid any confusion in case it is suggested that the claim falls under the Consumer Credit Act 2006. It is drawn to the Court’s attention that Schedule 3, Section 11 of the Consumer Credit Act 2006 prevents Section 15 repealing Section 127 (3) of the 1974 Act for Agreements made before Section 15 came into effect. Since the Agreement would have commenced prior to the inception of the Consumer Credit Act 2006, Section 15 of the 2006 Act has no effect and the Consumer Credit Act 1974 is the relevant act in this case.

Thanks Andy I have been reading through Gary's defence and also Mysticpols06 and I am grateful for your input. I am basically going to follow the defence that Mystic prepared. However I have a couple of questions you may be able to answer if you can? 1) I have written (will post this afternoon) to Morgans requesting the three items referred to in what no seems to be their standard POC. Can I request further items under CPR31 that were not mentioned on the POC (such as copies of statements, how interest has been added etc) or does this fall under some other rule? 2) If I file a defence online should I also send back the paperwork marked 'confirmation of online defence' or whatever? Thanks. Heathrow

This has been interestimg reading because I am trying to put my defence together in response to a Claim from Morgan/Cabot for two different credit card accounts (different issuers even) on the same claim but with no supporting evidence. Can they 'double up' and claim two for one? I have prepared my CPR31.14 letter and about to post Recorded to Morgans (Cabot's inhouse rotweillers) requesting copies of the original agreements, notices of assignment and purported demands for payment. I am not quite sure how to respond to the Claim other than to state that the Claimant has provided no supporting evidence and that I have requested information under CPR 31.14. Is there anything else I need to do as I need to get this done today as deadline for defence is Thursday even though I did not get the court document until 5 days after issue date. Please advise.

Thanks again Nicklea. This appears very helpful.

Thanks Nicklea. My reply to Morgan merely stated that I had no knowledge of their company or of Cabot and that if they thought they had a claim against me they needed tp provide proof that they were legally allowed to pursue me. This is when Cabot sent me two different letters for the same account. It's a difficult one isn't it? However, it is the usual claim stuff that I have read on other threads ... deliberately vague and just states two credit card debts and the amounts. At the end of the day they have to provide proof do they not?

No; I only received the County Court Claim yesterday. What do you need to know?

In this case Morgans had threatened legal action with the standard letter a few weeks ago and I challenged their right to do this because I had not received an NOA and I had not heard anything previously from Cabot. Then two arrived the same day (different dates and different amounts for the same account) on a Barclaycard letterhead posted by Cabot. This seems a bit suspicious. As far as I was aware another DCA had been assigned the account by Barclaycard. Can more than one DCA chase the same account? Seems doubtful to me.

Got you. Apologies.

Thanks folks. I didn't think they could lump two separate claims together either more especially as I have not had any communication at all from Morgans about the second. Sorry Galliver ... perhaps I am tired or just not with it tonight ... what is an NOA? Does anyone know how I should present my defence please?

I have posted on an existing thread without any response but feel it better to start a new one. Today, out of the blue, I received a Northampton Clearing Centre claim for over £17000 for two credit card accounts (on the same Claim) Cabot claim to own. Morgans wrote to me in September and I responded asking for proof of ownership of one of these accts.(Barclaycard) but the other one (Capital One) I have had no contact about at all. I intend to defend these claims because I do not know where their figures comes from; I have had no notice of assignment form the second c/card and no Default notices at all. I have written to Morgans to say I will applying to the court to have the matter set aside until Cabot can prove they have a right to pursue me. I have told them I also need to see the CCA's for these claims. As I am unemployed and have been for 6 months I am no longer able to claim Job Seekers Allowance and waiting to hear if I can claim other benefits becaasue I have ziltch income. Can anyone please provide me with urgent assistance as to what I should do next?

This is quite concerning as I have received a Northampton Clearing Centre claim for a substantial amount issued by Morgans for two different credit cards (on the same claim). I have received nothing prior from Cabot except 2 different letters to them from the same Barclaycard account (but with different amounts) stating that my alleged debt had been transferred to Cabot. This was in response to a letter I sent to Morgans after they had written to me to say they would instigate court action on the Barclaycard account. The other account on the claim was for Capital One - but this was the first I have heard about this. I have written to Morgans saying that I have had no previous correspondence relating to this action and I will be requesting copies of the CCA. I haven't logged by defence yet as this arrived today. Can anyone help please? I have also tried to start this as a new thread but can't find any information about how to start one. Help please..