No, you are confusing the two. Firstly, why are you only doing CI at 8%? If it were me, I would be claiming what they are charging you, for example, check your statements, say they are charging you 1.7% per month, multiply this by 12 and you have an annual percentage rate of 20.4%, this will seriously bump up your claim! Just to experiment, put that increased interest rate into your spreadsheet and see the difference! This claim for contractual interest is for your charges ONLY. What I would say is that should this come to Court, the Judge is only obliged to award you 8%, however, MBNA have long been settling on contractual and you and I both know that it is unlikely to reach the Courtroom. Consolidation is a separate issue, this is where you ask them to repay all the interest that has ever been applied to the account from the word go, as you can imagine, this is likely to be a very sizeable sum. Again, refer to statements, preferably before you got into difficulty, see what your minimum payment was and how much of that payment was made up of interest. If you were able to add up the interest costs over the term of the account, you can see that this could possibly be worth pursuing. I think we need to cross that bridge when we come to it. Let's do one thing at a time............ I hope this helps! Regards, Corn x:)

Consolidation (or restitution) is as yet untested territory (as far as I am aware, although I think there are a couple of cases in the pipeline), but it means reclaiming all interest you have paid whilst the account was running, the reasoning behind this is they had no right to profit from your payments whilst operating the account unlawfully (ie : without a true copy of the executed agreement). One step at a time, I think and you are doing this the right way round if you ask me..........pick away at it and you will get there...........! xxxxx

I personally think you are in rather a strong position with this. If your charges were nowhere near going to cover the debt, I would suggest seeing through the CCA route, but as you could reclaim the charges and virtually clear the balance, you may as well do this and not have all the additional hassle with repairing your credit file whilst you have a row with them over the lack of agreement! However, once the charges have been repaid and you have a tiny balance, you can then go down the route of using the lack of agreement as a tool for default removal, whilst this may be rather more drawn out, this seems to me to be the common sense approach given the size of your claim. I am doing this with another CC provider who shall remain nameless! On this basis, if you are going to keep the CCA issue to yourself for now, then I would continue your payment arrangement in the meantime - play nice for now and then hit them where it hurts later! Remember, you could then consider going for consolidation - after all they have admitted they can't provide the agreement, despite all the bluster they have tried to use to put you off! Without the debt hanging over your head, I think it would be worth a go, don't you?!

AC, I have had this too - I think they are trying to cover their backs in case you go down the Section 85 route - it seems that they are sending out mailers wholesale instead of true executed agreements, we know they haven't got your agreement, only a portion of the application form so my guess is that by mentioning Section 85, they can then say they have, with issue of a credit token, provided you with a copy of your agreement. You mentioned in the other thread that you haven't had a card issued in this respect, same for my husband, so it is a very poor, and thoroughly misguided, attempt at complying with S78! You are going to have to pick away at this one hun! xxxx

Standing, I would suggest that it is a risky move to reclaim charges once they have admitted that they do not have a true copy of your executed agreement. If they were to take you to Court, it would be a complete defence. My own view is that to reclaim charges could be seen as an admission of debt. I would be more inclined to put in there "for the avoidance of doubt, I do not acknowledge any debt to your company". Also, it is incorrect to put " a copy of my CCA", you should replace this with a "true copy of my executed agreement" only because it doesn't make sense to ask for a "copy of your Consumer Credit Act" if you see what I mean! I am sorry if I am repeating myself, but would reclaiming the charges wipe the debt? If so, you may feel more comfortable with seeing through the charges claim and then later on using the lack of agreement as a reason to remove any defaults or credit markers - on the basis that they do not have permission to process your personal data without said agreement. Regards, Corn x:)

Hi Senior, good to hear from you! I couldn't comment on them as I have no dealings with them at all. I suggest a general search may throw up some more "victims" who will be able to confirm one way or another. I am sorry I couldn't help! I am glad you are well and look forward to seeing you back over on the MBNA forum when you are able! Best wishes, Corn x:)

Hello stranger! Hope you are well! Right, the fact is that they haven't complied with your SAR. They have 40 days to comply, not 30, so double check your timeframe. Using the credit card spreadsheet, you need to find your monthly rate which is at the bottom of the statement ie : say it is 1.7%, you times this by 12 which would give you an apr of 20.4. This is the amount you put into the interest box at the top of the spreadsheet. All you need to do then is type in the description and the amount of the charge and your interest is worked out for you. I would do at you say above, tell them you are willing to accept the amount offered as partial settlement but remind them you will be pursuing them for the rest. Also, tell them that if they do not comply entirely with your SAR, you will be filing an N1 for non-compliance in order that the Court can enforce your request. They are doing this left right and centre and using it as a delaying tactic. Also, are you getting your SAR's and CCA's confused? Just for the avoidance of doubt, the creditor has 40 days to comply with an SAR. However, to provide you with a true copy of your executed agreement they have 12 days from delivery and then a further 30, after which they are in criminal default. I hope this clears things up. Email me if you are stuck! Good luck & keep us posted! Best wishes, Corn x:)

Blimey Senior! Where have you been hiding??!!! Good to see you!!

In addition to Zubo's changes, I would also change "a copy of my CCA" to "a true copy of my executed agreement". This is only because CCA stands for Consumer Credit Act and as such you have put in a CCA request for your true executed agreement. Other than that Standing, you're good to go!!! Good luck, I have everything crossed for you and look forward to your next post!! Regards, Corn x:)

Miss Muppet! Hello stranger, hope you are well and how's Mr Muppet? Hope all OK, email me with your news will you???!!! Glad you agree, I just have no morals when it comes to this. Morals to me mean a completely different thing - the money lenders don't even enter the equation in my opinion and in any event, where are their morals???? Oh don't get me started or I might just end up being arrested! LOL!! Love, Corn x:)

Standing, I completely disagree with this, apart from the fact that you can actually walk away from the debt, you do not hold a moral obligation to the money lenders and I really don't care what anybody says about this. If you added up the amount of interest you have paid over the last 10 years, they have had their money in spades. I am sorry, but this holds no ground with me. Of course, if you wanted to keep things "nice" you could use it as a tool for full and final, forget the charges, offer 10% of the balance on the basis that they cannot enforce the debt. My own view is that you should have reclaimed the charges first and then pursued the CCA route. However, as things stand, you can walk away from this and I think you should! It makes me SO mad, they are happy to take your money and charge you an exhorbitant rate when the going is good, but when it is bad, you are stuffed! My husband has paid nigh on £50K to MBNA over the last 11 years, yet the debt hasn't moved. Sod that, it just isn't on!!! I would just add that I have been on the Pinot:o Therefore am rather more mouthy than usual! Anybody want a fight????!!!

Standing, this is rubbish and bluster, they haven't got it, they will have problems enforcing it. Remember that if they were to take you to Court they would have to produce the original agreement, which they haven't got! I would send them the default letter and remind them that you do not acknowledge any debt to their company. I think you have struck gold here hun!! I have to shoot out tonight but will check back for any updates later, I hope that others will come on and comment too! Regards, Corn x:)

Perish the thought ODC!!!:o:D

Right, so it jumped from 10.4 to 18.8, nice one MBNA. I am still surprised at the very low rate. Can we assume then that the 10.4 applied from when the account was opened in 2005? So what they have done is ramped it just when you least needed it?! Another US practice apparently! It did say 10% as a flat figure on the "agreement" didn't it? Whatever, it still doesn't cut the mustard in my opinion and they have still put in writing that they have sent you an application form. Idiots.

It should say near the bottom of the statement what the monthly rate is, if it was 10%, it should be around 0.83% (I doubt it somehow but could be wrong!), for example, if you were calculating contractual and your annual percentage rate was 20.4%, this would work out at 1.70% per month. I would be very surprised if you had a rate of 10% in 2006 but am willing to be corrected!!!!

Yaff, get a third party to have a look and see what they think, sometimes it's more obvious to somebody else and no you're not looking too hard, I wouldn't put anything past them as we discussed earlier!! If you want, scan me some examples and I'll have a look. Any news on the interest rate?

LOL! I love your posts R!! Good GOD do they come out with some crap!! I was going to say something rude about Mr Johnson and why he is so frustrated but I won't!!!

Ha ha, she hopes she has!!!! The other point I would make is that Mr Johnson has rather shot himself in the foot by putting in writing "please find enclosed a copy of your application form". In my experience, and believe me I have seen a few of these, this is a tear off section of the application form. I don't believe that this would stand up in Court and as I said earlier, I have seen several charging orders struck out on documents with rather more information. I have also said to Yaff that she must find her early statements that prove that her apr was never 10%. Another cut and shuffler methinks! When WILL they learn?

Scarlet, that is an excellent point and must be included.

Hi Birchave, sorry I didn't realise it was you I was speaking to on Addabet's thread! No, no more than the 400-odd that I mentioned on that thread, but I did today receive my pin number for my card:confused: I haven't asked for it and it is the same as the one I already have! I do hope this isn't the start of 400-odd pin numbers!!!! Tomorrow, Goldfish, as far as I am concerned have defaulted entirely on my CCA request as it will be the 12 + 30 + 2. Like you, what they have sent me, simply doesn't comply, whatever they say. Glad Zubo is helping, can you PM me when you've got the letter so I can steal it too. I have so many bloody letters to write, I am getting repetitive strain injury! Oh happy days! Regards, Corn x:)

Can you ring me, I have PM'd my number........don't panic! I have seen charging orders struck our on more that this!

Hi Standing! Well you know from my experience to be VERY careful when studying what you receive. Just in case they have another "Blue Peter" moment!

Hi, yes, I was told this load of rubbish too, however, I am reliably informed that as they have to (and I use that term loosely!) conform with the consumer credit act, they are bound by UK laws. They tried to tell me that their debt collection activities came under US laws ie : outstanding amounts have to be paid within 10 years - what a load of ****. Take no notice Yaff!

Livelylad is correct in what he is saying and you seem to be confusing your facts. I can also tell you that, without exception, every person I have made contact with on this site has found themselves in a financial hole due to either illness, unemployment or bereavement, to name but a few reasons. The banks continue to make a bad situation worse by ramping up the interest, applying charge upon charge upon charge and then charging interest on same, throwing you to the dogs otherwise called "debt collection agencies" and generally behaving in an unlawful and underhand manner. I nearly lost my husband to suicide because of such a situation, so please don't come on here and preach about "lighting the building". You only have to see the profits announcements from the banks to see that paying back the charges they unlawfully applied barely makes a dent! I am sorry for hijacking and my intention was not to fuel a fire, however, your post was unnecessary and I hope you have since informed Admin of your status. Regards, Corn

Hi this will be interesting, ours was from 96' and the tricks they have pulled.......study very carefully what you receive,if you receive anything at all. Best to wait until the 12 + 30 is up before you tackle it. Remind 1st Credit that you do not acknowledge any debt to them. May I suggest you read through the MBNA properly executed agreements thread started by me! There are lots of documents to refer to on there. Keep us posted with developments! Regards, Corn x:)