[--------------------------------------------------------------------- Wow what a story. I was gripped!! Well done militantconsumer, I admire your committment to something you strongly believe in. I don't want to go back over old ground too much, but it appears to me that in the lead up to your Jack Nicholson 'you can't handle the truth' moment in court, you weren't given very clear advice as to what constitutes a good defence against the Liability Order being granted and you concentrated on the apparent unfairnes of the whole system which, as you correctly state, the Magistrates cannot do anything about. If you could have cast doubt on the documentation you were issued, i.e. being issued witha joint notice for a period of time when only you were liable for payment, this would have made the Magistrates think twice about granting the Order as they could have considerd the notice defective. It sounds like the Council just added your girlfriends name to your account when she moved in with you instead of ending your single account and setting you up with a brand new joint account which is what they should have done. You could have argued that you were happy to pay what you owed, but only when a correct notice was issued and this would mean withdrawing the summons. The Council has to prove that documentation was correctly issued and I think they got away lightly with having to prove this. On the flip-side, the £3 you were quoted would be what the Magistrates Court charges the Council for every complaint laid before the summons is issued (so the Court would have made an easy £6k) so this is not the amount it costs to produce the summons despite what the Council bod told you. When you actually received the summons, you have incurred x amount of costs, and then a further amount once the Liability Order was granted. The whole point of your post was how to get back at the Council. I don't think a FOI request is the correct way (by the way you could have done it for free at whatdotheyknow.co.uk) as the reply as to how the costs are justified will only annoy you. It will probably give you details of costs involved in IT staff having to produce the notices, office staff checking them, the machine packing them with x amount built in for pro-rata maintenance costs, time spend producing complaint lists and having them signed by the JP's prior to the hearing, issuing the summonses etc etc etc. The summons costs do supplement the Council Tax income for the Council and as it is treated as a separate income, it doesn't have to be spent on Council services unlike Council Tax itself so I personally would ask the Council how much cost income they have accrued and what they spent it on. Finally, with an attempt to be fair to all parties, the Council issue a bill at the start of the year with all of your instalments listed so if you refuse to go on DD, the onus is on you to remember to pay (which of course you know) and although you refuse to pay by DD, there is the DD guarantee scheme which is very good and every Council has to adhere to it so your mistrust of DD may be more deeply rooted. Also, most Councils issue at least 2 reminders (although the law says they only have issue 1) so it does appear to be a case of overzealousness on the part of your Council. Anyway, time to put my feet back up my desk, dunk another digestive into my Council-paid-for coffee, practice my most obnoxious beauracratic voice especially reserved for 'customers' , and dream of the day I collect my golden finaly salary pension.

Well done Steve. I'm glad for you. I don't agree that all Council's and their staff are slow moving and dim-witted, but your Council has shown gross incompetence and part of the reason for that is that Council staff do not need any legal qualifications or a legal background to prosecute in a Magistrates court, and if they had done their homework properly, they woud have relised that it was illegal to obtain the liabillity order against you. My only query is why, after years of sending your mail to the incorrect address, they had the presence of mind to send the bailiffs to the correct address?? If they had your correct address on file as you say, they only had to do a land registry search to establish ownership of the flat - after all, you can't be living in 2 places at once. BB

You can challenge the council on the address they were using, and they can check with their building control section to see what the correct address actually is. If it turns out that the mail was issued incorrectly and the council were culpable, they will have to withdraw the court summonses and if the debt is more than 6 years old, they cannot proceed through court again. You say that the L/L may have been holding back the mail. This is possible, but how would he have got it if it was issued to the Gnd floor flat (unless he lived there). The L/L would not need to provide proof when he initially registered your wife. Some council's ask for proof as a matter of good practice, but there is no legal requirement. As far as I am aware however, there is a legal requirement for a tenant/owner/agent to inform the council of occupation within 21 days of said person occupying. Personally I think the council will have all of the bases covered. If so, I would go through the council's complaints procedure and then go to the the ombudsman if not happy. The ombudsman will conduct a thorough investigation and any areas of bad practice from the council will be highlighted. In the meantime you may need to make an affordable arrangement to prevent further costs or bailiff visits. Good Luck.

Sorry for the late reply. The council do have to inform you. They will probably say that they did and now they've been to court, they don't have to prove that the issued the letters to you. Just a thought, but if you run a club for the benefit of the community (especialy kids) the Council have the power to grant you discretionary relief on your rates. The reduction you are already getting will be the mandatory relief which you are entitled to, but ask them for discretionary as well. You may end up paying noting (except arrears of course, but you caould ask for the releif to be backdated!!)

This reply may be too late to help, but it sounds like the letter is a cost letter. The council will no doubt say that by the time you made your payment, the summons had already been issued therefore incurring you costs. I would ring (you probably already have) and appeal to their sense of discretion to withdraw the costs.

Whilst the 'shed' is in the non-domestic rating list, you would be liable for busienss rates unless the VOA agree to remove it from the list as it is no longer capable of business use.

Gezza79. I can't believe the Council didn't accept your payment online. What usually happens is they accept your payment for the full balance (minus bailiff costs) and then advise the bailiffs that you have paid in full and that they can proceed for their own costs only, so whichever way you do it, it is unlikely that you will avoid the bailiff costs. My advice would be to pay in full to the Council (they can't stop you paying online or over the counter), and inform the bailiffs that you have do this. They will then check witht he Council. I would then tell the bailiff that you have a serious issue with the costs they have levied, and ask for the bailiff Managers name so you can write to him, and in the meantime, ask for all recovery action to be supressed. This, at least will buy you some time, and if you make enough of a fuss, they may reduce the costs. When all of this is done, set up a Direct Debit for the new year to avoid this mess again.

I agree with Martonman, but most Council's only pass cases to bailiffs as a last resort as they would rather have arrears paid directly to them in the year that the debt relates to and then their annual collection rate (which is published each year) looks better and their arrears figure is lower. By the time your case gets to the bailiff, you should have received at least 3 documents warning you of the consequences of not paying so my advice would be to go to the Council offices and ask to speak to someone in authority and provide them with your income and expenditure details and show willing by making a downpayment there and then. If your case goes to the baill, it is all too easy for the Council to say 'sorry it's not in our hands anymore' and dealing witht he bailiff can be a nightmare.