Hi Hellhasnofury. Looking again at their last letter it says : "I would be grateful if you would confirm acceptance of this offer in writing at your earliest convenience" "This communication whould be viewed as our final response in relation to this matter, however, you can go to the ombudsman etc.." Also they didnt mention the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) at all and I have received nothing, they said they are going to respond seperately regarding the first loan but again no mention of SAR. Should mention in my part settlement letter that I still require it ? Have checked my bank account and they haven't cashed the £10 cheque i sent. I guess they are presuming that I will accept the offer !! This is what i have written to send, is it ok ? Response to settlement offer. Thank you for your letter dated 31st March 2008 We respectfully decline your offer as Full and Final settlement and request, once again, that you return to us a full refund of the policy totaling £6979.65 and the statutory interest made on these payments, minus the £1219.72 rebate that was included in the settlement figure of the loan. If you agree we would consider he matter closed. We will accept the sum offered of £2500.43 only as part settlement and on the clear understanding that we will pursue recovery of the remainder, with a County Court claim if necessary. If you do not accept our conditions for acceptance, please provide the information as requested in our letter dated 25th March 2008 under the Data Protection Act 1998 so we can pursue our complaint with the Financial Ombudsman. For the avoidance of doubt, we wish to stress that we do not accept your offer under the terms stated in your letter. I trust this clarifies our position. If we have not heard from you within 14 days to say if you can offer this amount, we shall be taking our complaint to the Financial Ombudsman. Thanks again Sally

Hi Hellhasnofury. Sorry to be thick but i cant get my head around how to use these spreadsheets. Have looked at both the advanced bank charges and credit charges sheets and am unsure what i need to put in. Am I supposed to put in each monthly payment of just PPI i paid ? Also because we extended the term to 25 years from May 2006 and they didnt give us a new agreement I dont know what the monthly PPI figure was from then until we settled the loan so I have no idea what amount to put in to calculate the interest, in addition the interest rate was variable and changed 4 times in a year so i am even more confused how to go about it. Would it be ok if when i send my rejecting offer letter that i just say that i want a total refund of the policy of £6979.65 and interest made on the payments. and as we believe we have been deprived of our money we also expect 8% statutory interest, the amount a court would award. to be added to each payment made. Or should i try to work it precisely ? I am concerned because I dont understand how interest is calculated that I might ask for the wrong amount and mess the claim up. Also when i told you that we didnt get a revised agreement when we amended the term and that also the loan was secured on our house, did any of that make any difference to our situation ? Thanks Sally

Is it the credit card one I should use ?

Hi HellHasNoFury I cant click on the link for the excel spreadsheet it doesnt highlight, the works one does but we have excel. Where is it located so I can see if i can get it there. Thanks Sally

Also cant find any template letters about accepting money as part settlement, but requiring the rest plus interest and not sure how to word it, anybody got any ideas ? Thanks Sally

Does anyone have a spreadsheet that i can use to work out contractual interest ? I dont have a clue where to start. Thanks Sally

Hi Hellhasnofury, Gone back through the payments and the interest rate was definately variable. It started at 7.9% and stayed this way for one year from the start of the 2nd loan, then in Jan 07 increased to 8.4%, in March 07 to 8.7% and then finally increased again to 9.2% in May 07. Sally

Hi Hellhasnofury The loan of £28500 was for 120 months (10years) but the PPI policy of £6979.65 was only for 60 months (5years). The payments though were spread over the 10 years so we would have been paying it for the full term but only covered for 5 years. It doesnt show a monthly interest rate just 7.9% variable. Yes we did sign a letter confirming the increase of the term but not an agreement just a letter and the loan was secured against our property. Sally

Hi. I sent the following cover letter to First Plus on the 25th March with an S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) : We refer to your letter dated 20th March 2008 responding to our letter dated 9th March 2008. Firstly this was only addressed to Mr ********, we wrote to you in joint names about the PPI on the above joint loans and should have been replied to in joint names. We still believe both of these policies were not sold fairly, reasonably and within our best interests. We therefore request that you comply to the attached request under the Data Protection Act 1998. The reasons below reiterate the main points of our complaint :- As stated before It was not made clear by the sales advisor that these were Single Premium Policies and although only lasting for five years, we would be paying for them and interest on them throughout the lifetime of the loans at the loan APR, and furthermore we would need to take out further insurance at the end of the five year term. At no time were we told that PPI could be purchased elsewhere to cover the loans, that there were PPI policies where one could pay monthly for substantially lower premiums and which would cover us for the whole term of the loan. It was not stated at any point during the setting up of the 2nd loan that the PPI from the 1st loan was added to that loan. We were never given a breakdown of what was loan amount and PPI separately when it was added, and therefore had no idea that any PPI was included or how much. There was never any mention of this in any conversations or paperwork. It was never made clear that the rebate you would receive if you cancelled early was not fairly proportionate. Also as these were sold to us as cash back policies that is how we believed they worked. We would never have taken the PPI on either loan if we thought we could lose such a large amount of money. Your reply did not address any of these issues and we now intend to forward our complaint to the Financial Ombudsman when we have full copies of our information per the attached request. We look forward to hearing from you in receipt of this letter and request in the first instance. Today we have received the following letter dated 31st March (quickest reply ever and no mention of S.A.R - (Subject Access Request)) "I have reviewed the details of your complaint and remain satisfied that the details of the PPI were explained to you correctly and information regarding the cover was sent to you for your consideration prior to proceeding with the arrangement. I am therefore satisfied that you were provided with enough information to make an informed decision as to the suitability of the policy. Nevertheless, having considered your complaint the senior managers of FirstPlus are willing to reach an agreement with you in an attempt to reach a mutually agreeable outcome. In order to resolve your complaint, we are willing tooffer an enhanced rebate of the insurance policy. The enhanced rebate that we are prepared to offer you is calculated on a pro-rata basis of 78% of the insurance premium (22% being held back for the provision of claims and admin costs ) Would therefore like to offer you an enhanced rebate of £2500.43 in addition to the £1219.72 that was included in the settlement of your loan." They have said at the end that the refund is made with no admission of liability by either the insurers or FirstPlus and is purely a gesture of goodwill. They also say that they are responding seperatley on the first loan. What is my next response ? This rebate was on the £6979.65 PPI on the 2nd loan and does not come near to what we lost and they havent added any interest. Cant work out how the £2500.43 is 78% either ? Sally

Hi. Thankyou so much for your reply it will help loads. In answer to your question the 2nd loan was originally taken out for a term of 10 years (120 months) from Dec 2005, we made 4 payments in Jan 06, feb 06, march 06 and April 06 for £424.27, but as we found the payments too high we extended the term to 25 years (296 months) from May 2006 and then made the payments shown above until the surrender of the loan in August 2007. When we extended we did not change any of the loan amounts just the term. So basically this was a 25 year term from the start date of Jan 06. The rebate I mention of £1219.72 was not in respect of the first loan but was for the 2nd loan that was settled in 2007. I have no idea if we received any rebate when the first loan was added into the second loan. There is no mention of anything in the paperwork we hold. I presume when I get the SAR it will record somewhere the rebate before they added the 1st loan to the 2nd ? I have written back to them saying still not happy and requested SAR. Where do i find the spreadsheet to enter my details to work out the contractual interest ? Thanks so much for your help, and i agree its very confusing. ?? Which is why i think they managed to get away with it as I didn't have a clue how any of the figures were worked out. Sally

Hi Thanks for your reply. Have completed S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) request and will send off tomorrow. Loan details as follows :- 1st loan taken out 1st April 2005 Loan Amount £15000 PPI £3673.50 Total Loan £18673.50 Monthly interest rate 0.639% Apr 7.9% number of monthly repayments 120 Monthly payment £223.30 Made 8 payments of this totalling £1786.40 up to Dec 2005 2nd loan to increase borrowing taken out Dec 2005 Loan Amount £28500 (This shows first loan included at £16761.62) PPI £6979.65 Total Loan £35479.65 Apr 7.9% number of monthly repayments 120 Monthly payment £340.80 for cash loan £ 83.47 for PPI Total £424.27 Paid 4 payments of £424.27 totalling £1697.08 then had to increase term to 25years as could not afford it so monthly payment changed to £261.23 at same Aor of 7.9%. Made 8 monthly payments at this amount totalling £2089.84. Then in Jan 07 interest rate changed to 8.4% making monthly payment £271.76, made 2 payments at this amount then rate went up again to 8.7% making monthly amount £278.07. Again made 2 payments at this amount then rate went up again to 9.2% changing it to £288.34. Made two payments at this amount and then paid off the loan in Aug 2007 by remortgaging, the settlement figure was £33758.26. This is shown as Total amount payable under agreement £85523.23 Less our rebate on early settlement £51914.97 Plus admin charge £150 Total amount to settle £33758.26 When I send off the SAR should I send another covering letter saying I am not happy with the response and am requesting the SAR to then go straight to the ombudsman or just leave it until I see all the paperwork ? Thanks for your help Sally PS. apparently they gave me a rebate of insurance of £1219.72 in the settlement figure of the 2nd loan for settling early !!!

Hi I am new to the consumer group as far as posting anything is concerned, have read lots of your info on this subject and FirstPlus in particular and to be honest i am completely lost at the moment and dont know which way to go further with this now. Situation is this. I sent a standard letter from Money Expert to Firstplus stating I beleived i was mis sold because i paid a single premium for my policy and repaid early the loan early and also that I was not given sufficient info to decide whether this PPI was what I needed. Got a bog standard reply back stating they had gone through the demands and needs and it highlighted I needed payment protection and also that we were told that we would not get a full refund and the amount would be significantly reduced if settled early and apparently we agreed to all this. I then sent a second letter detailing the situation as follows ( topped and tailed so not so long ) Dear ***** Further to your letter we do not feel a satisfactory explanation has been offered for the following. We took our a loan with you in April 2005 for £15000. A PPI policy for £3673.5 was added to this loan. We do not beleive this policy was sold to us with best advice. It was not made clear that we didn't need this policy and cover could be obtained from elsewhere. Also my husband was in employment and was covered by his employer. We did not receive a breakdown of our monthly payments showing the loan amount & PPI seperately. Then 8 months later we required further borrowings so approached you to to increase the existing loan to £28,500. It is only now that we are looking into this matter that we realise that the figure of £16767 shown on the breakdown of the revised borrowing was the original loan plus the PPI. We beleived at that time that the figure was the original loan plus interest because we were amending the loan before the end of its term. At no time did we receive any correspondence breaking this figure down to indicate this. Also because we had not used the PPI and it was sold as a cashback policy we assusmed it was refunded. We were then encouraged to take out another PPI against the revised loan of £28500 for £6979. As before not advised could be obtained elsewhere and never given option to keep first one running and just take out additional cover, obviously now realise this was because the first PPI was capitalised into the first loan.We would have never taken out the cover if we realised we would have lost our money if we paid the loan off early. We remorgaged in Aug2007 and when the repayment figure came back at £33500 we were in complete shock this was queried with you by phone and were told this is the figure we must pay back under the terms. As we were nearly completing our remortgage I didnt have time to query it and just asked our financial advisor to see if we could increase our borrowing. Yours ******************* I have today received a second decline from them as follows (although this time the letter is only addressed to my husband and the loans were in joint names and their first decline was sent to both of us. Dear ***** I have reviewed the initial sales call that took place with your wife in Feb 2005 where the PPI was discussed. In order to ascertain suitablility Demands and Needs questions were asked and a opy was sent to you. The answers your wife provided highlighted the need to protect the loan reparyments and the PPi policy was recommended to meet this need. The acccount manager confirmed that you both would receive life cover and your wife would be covered alone in the event of accident, sickness and if she involuntary ceased trading. The credit agreement shows the premium payable for the optional PPI and the premium is included in the total loan amount and interest is applicable on total loan amount. They also quote about the policy booklet and the terms and conditions and getting substantially less if you settle early. That the account manager explained that the PPI was optional. It also says that "You were under no obligation to take the policy being offered and wer free to obtain alternative cover from other providers if you had wished to do so" Yours *************** WHAT DO I DO NEXT ?????????? Do i request copies of everything ? is that what is called an S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) ? Sorry this is so long. Sally. Sorry also forgot to mention that I am a Self Employed Driving Instructor so I dont know if that makes any difference and also they say in their first refusal that we received a rebate of insurance of £1219.72 when we did the final settlement of the second loan which was included in the settlement figure. Which goes no where near the figure of £10642 which was the cost of both PPIs. Obviously I made some payments but am unsure of how to work out what I should be asking back so I asked for a full refund plus interest. Is that correct ?