Hi,

There’s already been quite a lively discussion on the principles behind this type of contract letter here:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/211974-what-do-when-debt-2.html true i was involved with that one, too many Lawyers i'm afraid - ....they are not part of the remedy

 

Ultimately as Vint says this is a self help forum and the decision on how to proceed is your own. Very true, don't believe what anyone says on here, do your own research, that's what i did.

 

I’m very open minded and any workable method of redressing the balance with the greedy banks and DCA’s would be welcomed by me. i hope you are and are not an undercover agent ...Undercover Elsa

Unfortunately, with all due respect I’ve not been able to find anything yet that proves this system to work..no successful threads, case law or authorative articles.

If anyone can provide any such evidence I’d be most interested to read it.

Follow the earlier links in this thread, then links & articles etc from there will show you the path you need to seek out

 

One of the few things I could find is that the contract letter in post 5 is a slight amendment of one of a package of alternative Debt Clearing Methods originating in the USA, and on sale on Ebay for a few pounds. In the same section you can get a seventh daughter of a seventh daughter witch to cast a spell to "magick" away your debts (Paypal and Credit Cards accepted) ( I kid you not! ) oh purleese , dont demean what you don't (yet) understand , this has nothing to do with anything you will find an auction site....

 

You might want to research the Bills of Exchange Act for example !

 

Interesting, exploratory, controversial discussion is healthy and I defend anyone’s right to state their views. Many boundaries have been pushed forward by CAG in this way.

However, if they are still in the realms of opinion, speculation or theory then I believe this should be made absolutely clear. It all is , even for those who have been successful in finding a solution

I do not feel that they should be stated as fact to people who come to CAG looking for help. is this because now CAG is mainstream?, the only place of

knowledge? is the giver of all truth & light? if it is not on CAG it's not correct? etc etc

To do so makes them little more than unwitting guinea pigs to the unsubstantiated beliefs of others, and can ultimately cost them dearly. you may have a point here, but hasn't CAG also been "guility" of this... my point is we are are all learning , all trying to get to the truth , to seek out remmedy for our situations.

 

As Vint outlines above, there are tried, tested and proven methods to dealing ( & Closing out?) with your debts, methods which are well documented, have the backup of case law and are recommended throughout CAG. ( how many have had ultimate closure, not many i think .. many alleged "debts" are now considered uneconomical to chase or have being sold on or are statute barred.. so the circle doesnt break, the alleged debt is still hanging out there, its true they cant enforce it, (funny though why do they keep trying?) because of the CCA route (yet) but is has not gone away) They don’t always work, for various reasons, every case and judge is different, but they’re the best options we have at the moment. i think not, if you challenge the validity of the contract i.e. & it is shown to be a fraud in factum , then it does GOES AWAY because it is fraud and that is covered under the Fraud Act of 2006

 

But that’s just MY opinion

 

Elsa x

& Those edits are just my opinion

Credit agreements are not simple contracts under English Civil Law. A credit agreement is regulated specifically under an act of parliament, hence there are specific ways of moving through the act and the process to acheive your aims.

 

In a contract under english civil law, there are no requirements for prescribed terms, no requirement for the possitioning of terms and no requirement for a signature to be in a prescribed place within a document...but there is a requirement for:

 

A copy of the contract signed by both parties and therefore binding both parties

Full disclosure of all the material facts

A Meeting of the minds

Consideration by both parties

Performance by both parties

 

Now how many so called credit card/Mortgage/loan agreement ( CONTRACT ) has any of the above??

 

 

 

However, each to their own and if you wish to try something new, then no one will stop you.

see above

i have used the CCA route for a year or so now because if they don't have a valid agreement as per the CCA then that is grounds for dispute so there is nothing wrong with using the CCA route in the first instance.

But that wont mean the alleged debt will go away, the Creditos will just keep passing it/selling to low life DCA's (of course as mentioned before, if they sell it that is good for you) so apart from them selling .. where is the closure?

The legality of the Contract gets closure because if it proved that a contract was fraud/ lack of proper disclosure etc then the whole thing is null & void - ie you get closure

please look back on the links , you will learn about "Conditional Acceptance" for example where a person can Conditionally accept anything upon proof of claim. This removes controversy ( controversy is the whole reason they have to take you to court)

No controversy = nothing a court can rule on

Remember Lawyers love controversy , my client says A, yea but my client says B etc etc , also remember games are played on Court!

The law of the Courts (without a jury) is Admiralty, and Admiralty law is

a)by consent ( this is important ‘cos you have to consent to it, or NOT as the case maybe)

b)& Honour & Dishonour

So if you end up consenting to their Court , remember to stay in honour, Conditionaly accepting anything they claim subject to proof of their claim is very honourable. And as we all know the creditos can’t provide the proof !!!!!!!!!!! now who is in dishonor ?

Not you!

This is a bloody interesting thread, everyone. Its certainly learnt me a thing or two about the 'contract' aspect. Its a side I hadnt considered before.

 

Scales tipped nuke-em.

jed

thanks, most people haven't!

Well, bears no relationship to any debt related letter that I know of.

In my humble opinion the Contract method is the only way forward for closure, the CCA route will buy time and may involve different DCA's going forward but the alleged debt doesn't go away, it just means they "shouldn't" be able to enforce it in a court. Of course that doesn't mean that DCA's wont try it on, the Stat demand route for example or their more mundane threats....which seem to keep appearing .. and catching out newbies

Challenging the validity of the alleged "contract" in the first place is the future, because if un-rebutted means that everything just goes up in smoke! ie you achieve closure

please research on the links earlier on this thread as there are people "left-field" who are successfully using this remedy. you wont find this yet on cag - it is not yet mainstream!

Imaging if you could turn their invalid claim into a valid judgment against them for example.. that way you become the creditor! now the boot would be truly on the other foot!

its all out there, hidden in plain view

peace & enlightenment !

n em

sounds like you need to send them the same Notice

read this

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/222148-debt-sold-dca-help.html

then send them the Notice in post 5

good point!

 

It's a euphemism that I think means "lay off the poor b*****ds for six months at least" kind of understanding. or untill the publicity dies down which ever is the sooner

 

I don't know how many are following the "guidance" of the Bank of England/FSA but the rules certainly exist.

They "exist" in plain view and are out there for the sheeple , but the lenders & banks know that in reality they dont "apply" to them!

somehow got googled to the tpuc forum a few weeks back - ddn't read rest of site., go back to it , it has some v good remedys you wont find on mainstreeam sites Anyhow am sending off the contract 'prove it' letter to these Credite Experto lot. Am now wondering rationale ehind MBNA selling some to Link and some to Credite Expertos... ?

I don't think so in the UK. Whilst its certainly true that mortgage backed securities would be subject to much closed scrutiny (and rightly so) primary security takers and holders of mortgaged properties will still be directly able to foreclose (God I hate Americanisms creeping into our language) reposess properties in default cases. Of course when it get's to be generally known amongst the sheeple that the Mortgage was a fraud in the first instance ie they provided you with nothing of value , just monitized a document you signed..... that should stop the repos.....

 

Its now the case that the government has issued strong instructions (i bet the banks are quaking in their boots!) about delaying proceedings to enable stricken borrowers more leeway, backed up by court powers, but the line of responsibility still exists.

 

Unlike the USA, when a company sells its borrowing book on to another finance company, the security goes with it, on a first party basis, so that a mortgage loan based on a security in favour of say RBS, which is sold to Abbey, becomes a security in favour of Abbey. Its rarely the case that a third party has access to the debt, as in the case of MERS.

 

The big problems started when our fine institutions became involved in things they didn't really understand, & still dont , like derivatives for example or had any experience of - eg Northern Rock, and the fact that a security held in one jurisdiction is legally unenforceable in another, especially in another country. This is why the big banks have foreign subsidiaries for their overseas mortgage business.

 

I am certain there are still more revelations to come about securitised lending, There are, loads watch this space! but I for one won't be holding my breath about UK written and secured mortgage lending being being unenforceable. And whilst the banks have to be more understanding about hardship cases, repossessions will continue.

What is Money?

Many people spend their lives trying to make money, but my experience shows that almost no one really understands what money is. For lack of a few concepts, most people place themselves at a tremendous disadvantage to the few who do understand money and how it works.

It seems almost inconceivable that something of universal importance could be universally misunderstood, at all levels, from child to economics professor. But there is a very convenient reason for all the confusion surrounding something as simple as money: profit motive. We'll pinpoint who benefits from widespread misunderstanding, later.

Before we move forward, ask yourself the question, "What is money?" Have you ever been asked?

"The study of money, above all other fields in economics, is one in which complexity is used to disguise truth or to evade truth, not to reveal it." - John Kenneth Galbraith

What is money?

Most people are inclined to point to a distressed note, tucked neatly inside their wallet. Everyone knows that these paper “Bank of England Notes”, "Federal Reserve Notes" “Euro Notes” etc are money, right? Wrong. A paper note is "currency." Currency is about the only thing in the world that is not a form of money.

Money is any tradable asset.

An asset is "tradable" when it carries some tangible value, that is, when it is something that people value. A house is money, because people desire homes. A car is money. A paperclip is money. A service is money, if it is desired and can be traded for other things.

So what is the paper note in your wallet? Isn't it money, too? Well, a Bank of England paper pound note does have some tangible value, I can write my grocery list on the back of it. For the most part, paper is worthless. A paper note is "currency." Currency is an accounting system for money. It is difficult to haul your vacation home to market for trade, so we carry currency instead. Currency in isolation, without backing assets, is worthless.

Assets are money. Currency is a paper accounting system for money. Paper is worthless without money.

It follows then, that the total value of any accounting system for money, or all the currency in circulation, is always equal to the amount of money that backs it. There can be a billion Pounds of currency in circulation, there can be a trillion, there can be a quadrillion, or there can be a single Pound. The number of paper Pounds, or the number of zeros printed on those Pounds, does not matter. The sum total of all circulating currency always accounts for the total amount of money in existence, and nothing more.

This concept is critical to understanding what happened in 2008, and what is about to happen in 2009, and beyond.

So we know:

MONEY = any tradable asset

CURRENCY = a paper accounting system for MONEY

And so:

CURRENCY/MONEY = the amount paper per asset = PRICES

The amount of things an asset commands in trade = VALUE

VALUE almost never changes. The VALUE of a house is four walls and roof over your head, so it always commands a similar house in trade, regardless of their PRICES. PRICE can be anything, it is meaningless with respect to asset VALUE. PRICE, while initially arbitrary, should be stable. However, as we will uncover shortly, the people who do understand money will have none of that.

am lost already! Came across that site before and thought it was a BNP site!

which site?

But will it help the uk?

Good Point ,yes i think so... within the next 6-12 months timeframe, in the same way as the USA sub-prime mess affected us here , so this will as well ( only this time in a good way though)

send them this

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/222148-debt-sold-dca-help.html#post2458774

ignore it, they are trying to get you into contract ( to agree you owe them some amount)

Here are today's important phrases to look for in google

Mary Elizebeth croft of (edit)

winston shrout

nouicor

learn, learn & then learn some more

Go slowly make sure you fully understand before attempting to apply.

True, major learning curve ahead WTWT

also learn from

(edit)

Now you are cooking on gas.....

They use it but don't tell you, in so far as they want you to contract with them, i guess even their numpty employees dont understand it.

That's why they want to to agree to pay any amount per month 'cos then they got you.

wow! So does it apply also in writing even if you state you do not acknowledge this or that, account in dispute etc?

 

Does this contract issue also apply at the end of the road when an OC / DCA has not got enforceable cca then as there'd be letters etc?

You have to be careful, you could be saying you dont acknowledge 'this" but your silence on every other matter means you agree to everything else.

& remember silence = agreement

and agreement of the parties=contract

Always put anyone who claims anything from you to proof of that Claim , always answer/ask questions in writing or,

if anyone catches you unawares on the phone ( which you must always try and avoid)

Always respond with questions..

DCA: What is your name ?

You: what is your name?

DCA: What is your address ?

You: what is your address?

DCA: I need to confirm some security details

You: i need to confirm some security details myself

etc

A contract is entered into when you unwittingly give your name and address. When a DCA phones you, they first ask you for your name and then addresss which creates joinder. You have tacitly entered into agreement by giving both and so a contract is created between the two companies. Your name is actually a company. The basic premise is no name no contract, no contract, no ability to act upon you. It's the same for all areas of your life.

Correct Sir!

Very interesting....

Land Investment UK | News & Articles | Property Scandal

LANDMARK DECISION PROMISES MASSIVE RELIEF FOR HOMEOWNERS AND TROUBLE FOR BANKS

Remember earlier i told you about Ellen Hodgson Brown

well she is reporting a landmark case for reposessions/foreclosures in the USA

Web of Debt - LANDMARK DECISION PROMISES MASSIVE RELIEF FOR HOMEOWNERS AND TROUBLE FOR BANKS

the thing is that at least 2 big British banks are upto their neck with MERS as well , all to do with Slicing up mortgage for MBS ( Mortgage Backed Securities)

The funny money is starting to burn!

...

“When its a question of money, everybody is of the same religion.”

Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value -- zero

- VOLTAIRE

Excellent thread, certainly opened my eyes to a few things... also very entertaining at times seeing Nuke and Co. go at it.

just trying to EXPOSE the matrix

unfortunately many issues like this just get talked about there is no action how can MP's expenses scandal is no more... yet when I see daily that mrs bloggs put in jail for cheating benefit system... she was not offered to pay it back...... this country is run by cheats supporting bigger cheats.... yet we as a population can do nothing about it... to say a general election will sort it is misguided.... they are all the same they are wolves in different clothing.... when are we all going to realise and unite to put an end to this

ridiculous situation

I think the MP's expense scandal was the long game, set up to be exposed recently so we will all hate our "money grabbing MP's" and when the time comes for full EU Rule (dictatorship) we wont mind if the EU points out that we dont need our MP's anymore to make our rules & statutes !

my view, keep our MPs and treble their wages , keep our parliament then at least if we dont like them , we can vote them out......