The worst crud seem to be whistling at me now for they have sent a letter lecturing me about how the badly scanned copy of an agreement they previously sent me shows that it is signed ands dated etc. They also mention that they assume that the account is no longer in dispute as CAB got me to arrange a new are token deal with them. They also claim wrongly that I have not sent them the initial quid as I was told to by CAB when they first stated their tricks.

The CAB also mentioned that one has to be careful with final settlements as gangs like the crud can come back after say five years and say that one still owes something, which is a bit of a worry. I thought that their mentuon of settments of only 20% in some cases was better news and it gave me some hope.

It may not be an option as you say but CAB has urged me into contemplating it twice now. I know that one day I will most likely be able to settle up debts but I want to survive until then. It’s a bit like a cross channel swim – you know that the end is there but the doing of it all is a massive strain. ODC - I agree but thanks to the CAB its all set up now for the token payment.I was put in a fix at the time. I got what I was first after it seems at the cost of ignoring the CCA. This will not happen again if any other sharks get to biting at me though. Is there a page on here please for 'sample letters' to deal with all this type stuff ??

Meant to sat that I also now have received a letter stating the cruds complaints policy. It just one brief feeble letter. I may have a crack at that later on when I clear my head of all this.

Recently went to see CAB and I told them about the ist crud probs. CAB surprisingly ignored the fact that I had not received the CCA I had requested and rang the crud who instantly agreed to the token payments I had originally offered. This has been pretty mystifying to say the least. First the crud refuse my offer and now they seem happy to take it. I was a bit peeved about the way CAB ignored the CCA request I had hit them with too. Not sure that the assistant was familiar with this one but what could I do as I had gone to them for the needed advice? CAB said an IVA might be best for me when I do get some cash to settle up but I don’t know much about that. They claimed that some people had settled for as low as 20% of the debt but that 50% would be a safer figure to aim at. They also mentioned something about if 70% of you creditors accept a settlement offer then the rest has to follow suit. CAB even suggested bankruptcy to me but I am trying to avoid that path if possible. They also scared me by saying that a debtor could press for bankruptcy if my financial situation didn’t improve but I have little to be worth them making me bankrupt. I run a small business which is improving slightly and paying its way. I work from rented premises and have no assets so any creditor would really get next to nothing if they tried to take me down. CAB did however confirm that if they took me to court for a CCJ the judge would only tell them that they would get the quid offered. I am sick of it all but I will have to plod on for the moment. Thanks guys and good luck to others in these horrid positions.

I got another call of this westcot lot and they again stated that they had sent me letters which they have not. Then they asked if I lived at an address which was in fact correct. Very fishy - it's as if they are unsure about my location. I told them nowt. Partly I would love to send them the hassassment letter (anyone got a blank example please?) BUT PART OF ME SAYS IGNORE THEM AND LET THEM WRITE TO ME so that I can then shoot back with a CCA. And check this guys. I have just found out that this post on another site gives the Westcot number, that has been hassling me, as Nat West... "just received a message on the phone from this number.They say they are Nat West credit card centre." Caller ID: 01294475300 Caller: Nat West credit card centre 01294475300 - who calls me? Yep - that's the one.

The calls we have had off westcot are plain silly. They keep claiming they have sent us letters which is not true as we have had nothing off them. We have no idae who they are yet they keep phoning us.

Problem is they are now starting to call regularly saying they have sent letters to me which is not true but I have no idea where they are based. I will not answer questions over the phone from people who I do not know. I feel they do not even have my addrees and this is why they keep telling me they have sent me these letters. Very nasty tricks.

I have had other robotic calls too from other DEBT gangs I DONT KNOW OF so perhaps I am getteing due for a new fanancial statement to be produced. The callers who have left messages to call back are taped affairs and I have started to get several each day - I feel they are linked. I shall be visiting CAB soon so that they can aid me in advice re the new FS. I just hope they have the nouse that you guys have re this situation as I had never heard of a CCA request etc until I found this site. These abusive DCAs have made a real enemy with me now and I shall never ever forgive them.

Since I had all this aggro with 1st crud I have now mysteriously stated to get phone harrassment from a gang called Westcot Credit. I have never heard of them and yet they threatened to send someone around to see me. Anyone know if they are linked to the 1st crud?

Thanks guys - I shall see what happens next.

They sent me a badly scanned, single page copy of a ‘YOUR PERSONAL APPLICATION ‘its says ‘A96’ next to it. It has details about my name, work and income, birth date income and all that stuff. I presume this is what you mean by a CCA which I requested from them??? That’s all. And my signature is now different to the one on the scan, which is several years old. They say if I confirm the signature they will sent me a copy of the ‘relevant document.’ And they say they invite proposals for settling this “outstanding debt.” They than go on about if its not my signature that I should provide my sig fron an official doc such as a drivers licence. They then go on about my address being correct or not. They finally go on about if they believe that a fraud has been committed against me they will investrigate. They have failed to provide a complaints policy or answer aay of my questions. Nice and sweet they thank me now for my assistance. What a change of attitude buy WHY?? Am I missing something here? Confusing.

I have noticed that I am still paying the agree quid a month to the OC who passed this debt off to 1 cred. Can I use this fact? Surely the fact that the OC was at first happy with this arrangment stands for something. I am also quite certain that no one told me that the debt was passed on to the nasties either.

Yes - it could be that they do not have the original aggrement. However I do not really want to get into mentioning the word 'court' at this stage. Funny too that they asked for my comments. How polite. They do ask me to confirm that it holds my signature so that they can, they say, send me a copy of the relevent doc.

I have had an edited copy of the signed agreement off them now which they want me to confirm and to give my comments about. Its a pretty bad scan but it is the agreement. The letter with it was rather nice. they want my proposals to settle the debt but all I can give is the stated quid. CAB say they will help me again with a latest Fanancial statement etc. .

You should hammer them for that one. Nice work nevertheless. As a matter of interest - what actually happens if you cannot afford to pay anything at all?

Good points Babybear39 - thanks. They should not be allowed to do such things as push up debts and the facts speak for themselves.

Many thanks If I am reading this right then I would have to pay more even though I have shown that with the CAB- approved FS that all I can aford is the quid. That seems highly unfair and unjust . Yes I have several times so why would a court penalise me for being honest about my situation?

Thanks Trevor I wonder why they are so pushy when other creditors seem more resonable and able to listen to what people have to say? No one likes being in debt but life changes and sometimes it just happens as it can to anyone. What goes around comes around and the ones who seem to enjoy making life so bad for others herein will get back the same one day. No one is secure these days.

Ah right yeah I see. That is really stupid of them isn't it. Why the blazes bother to be in such businesses if they cannot do that. So without it they are like a fly without wings? Still - if they 'CAN' hit me with a genuine CCA they will THEN possibly waste their own money taking me to court for cash I DONT HAVE. How much would that cost them? In light of this enlightening news perhaps I should be asked ALL my creditors for a CCA instead of just carrying on as before with token payments? Still, I dont want to upset any too much who may then go into the 1st crud bullying mode. I am getting rather interested in this CCA situation and would like to discover more about my legal rights under it. I have had a swift glance on the net but where can I find the right info please?

Thanks babybear39 but why is it - any idea? You would think that it would be a sinch to get one. What's an "OC"?

"Wait and see IF they can come up with a PROPERLY EXECUTED CCA agreement which contains ALL the prescribed terms and is legally enforcable through the courts. Without it they can do diddly squat" I can't see why they could not come up with such a doc. What possible reason would there be for them not being able to gain such an item? There again though, even if they do get one I cannot give them money I do not have, hence the CAB-approved F.S. which shows this so clearly. I shall never give in to such bullying but I can see how it would work on many poor vulnerable people. Earlier I asked about settlement figures. I am in no position to do so now but I wonder if anyone has hear of the following. I heard that if one say has a good percentage of creditors who will accept a lowish settlement figure and one or two are being awkward and not accepting then the few dissenters have to agree if the majority are happy to accept an offer. I think I heard that off CAB but am not ceratin . Maybe it only applies to folks who are only able to give token payments like me?? Is it true???

So guys I can expect either 1st cred to … 1) Send me a properly executed CCA then get nasty again with threats for final payment? 2) ???? I thought a letter may have arrived today in answer to my questions about them addressing all the points I have raised but it didn’t. They have NOT sent back the quid I gave them or acknowledged it even They have not acknowledged my CAB – approved Financial Statement. They have not in fact acknowledged anything. They just bypass my words like an aggressive school teacher and keep on about settling up in full with is immpossible for me to do. . The debt BTW is not massive and less than a thousand quid in fact so I really wonder if it's worth all the hassle to these PERSISTANT jerks in the end. I rent my house and they wont get much for the children if they try and sell them to medical science coz they bite at times. They are deaf and blind to anything but their own one-sided agenda. Yes – I think they are a very silly firm and will terminate like fats moths in a candle via their own sick efforts due to their own well-proven lack of common sense. Threats and abuse only have a certain self life and every bully meets his/her match as these foolish types surely will too. They must be exposed for what they really are ASAP! If I ever get mega rich I shall devote a huge wad to fighting to expose this disgusting outfit .

Oops sorry I get the 'BIF' bit now and I wasn't trying to be funny. Its just that thereare so many terms floating about that I dont know about I thought that a BIF was something else. BIF = bank infiltration federation or borrowers in fear etc.. lol - Just getting a bit lost with it all. Sorry. Maybe thickos like me could do with a quick glossary of all the CCA FOG or whatever initials are being used so that we can keep up to speed? What's the definition of a "properly executed CCA" anyway? How will I know the differance between one and a dodgy one? If they DO produce one will they then just ignore the CAB Fanancial Statement some more and send me to court? If so what would be the point ? Surely they are not that stupid are they? All very abstract still to me! :?

Thanks a lot. The fanancial statement figures show clearly that I only have ability to pay the quid per month and the DCA know this as they have the CAB form. It would seem that they would appear a bit silly to take me to court when nothing else is in the kitty. Are they so stupid to waste court time? I have several other creditors who are taking the quid without any probs. Another thing is that they have never sent back the quid that I sent when making them the token offer - they have ignored this and every other point I have put to them. What is a "BIF" please?