I wonder if one instance where the Fraud Act 2006 may apply to mortgages is where the mortgages are quickly transferred from one company to another. I wonder if this could be viewed as a pre-exisiting arrangement, which was not disclosed to us on signing the application or the deed with company A? From reading these threads there seem to be certain patterns in terms of who you sign the original agreement with, who it ultimatley ends up with and the timescale.

Dougal, I am curious... If mortgages are not "created" by the banks using our signatures, then how are mortgages "funded" in the UK? Where do the funds come from and what would be a typical flow of money in a mortgage? I am thinking sub-prime companies here rather than high street banks. This is a serious question, and potentially relevant to this thread because if mortgages are "created out of thin air" (as I rather suspect they are) and banks have not actually "lent" any of their money or their customers' money, then the whole concept of a mortgage is fraudulent from its inception. Any thoughts, anyone... Thanks. Goldy36

I wonder whether the whole issue of Fraud lies in how money is "created" in the first place and whether the banks "lent" us any of their money and have therefore "sustained a loss"? This is a very interesting site which explains this. Debt Free Sovereign Trust -- "Owe no one anything" (I have no personal interest in the company or theri services) I had a mortgage company tell me that they "create and trade mortgage assets" - interesting choice of words!

Communication has always been very poor. They have got much worse since being taken over the government.

Hi everyone I have npt really posted much in the past, however this thread has really caught my attention as it clarifies a lot of issues for me with both credit cards/3rd parties and also mortgages. I would like to offer some exampes as to where this Fraud Act may be applicable. The "Devil is in the detail" and powers of detailed observation are required. Example 1)- 3 rd party collection companies who claim they have bought a credit card debt. You receive a "Notice of Assignment" apparently from the original lender, which has in fact come from the office of the the 3rd party. On closer inspection, certain give-aways may become apparent such as a different address, different registered office, different font style and maybe other small details that distinguish it from a letter that has genuinely come from the lender. When challenged on the validity of this document, the standard excuse seems to be that they (3rd party) have permission from the orignal lender to send out letters on the lenders' letter -headed paper and that this is "in line with standard industry practise." Known practicitioners of this are 1st credit, Cabot and Lowell! Some of the creativley produced documents are much better than others! Example 2- in court situations, where 3rd parties produce so-called "Notice of Assignement" documents or pieces of paper to allegedly prove their title to the so-called debt. Some tricks of the trade include cobbling together documents from a couple of other documents. Watch for dates, misaligment of text, lack of signatures. Example 3- who exactly has issued these documents and do they actually exist? Check very carefully as you may find that the solicitors' office that is issusing court papers and "Statment of Truth" documents may be a covert operation that is not acknowledged anywhere on the Solicitors main website and the person writing these documents may not be listed anywhere on their webiste. Example 4- Mortgages and secured loans. A customer takes out a secured loan with mortgage company A and signs the mortgage deed with them. The Deed contains all the phrasing about transfer, assign etc (another story in itself). Mortgage completes and customer is advised aferwards that the mortgage was transferred to Mortgage company B on the same day. However Mortgage company B provided the funds in the first place! So Mortgage company A was in fact a broker and never provided any money to customer. Nothing disclosed to customer about this. Whilst 3rd party payments are not illegal and seem to be more common in some industries than others, they are very useful as a tax dodge. Example 5 - Transferred mortgage company seeking possession. Mortgage set up with company C, transferred to company D 2 months later, although source of original funds is questionable. Mortgage company D goes for posssession of property and there are some very interesting points on particulars of claim. 1) Date of start of arrangement between customer and mortgage company D is stated as same date as customer actually took aout mortgage with Mortgage Company C!!! 2) Mortgage company seeks HOUSE and MONEY, which is a way of avoiding a significant tax liability for the mortgage companies. Fraud is all around us in many of these transactions, and it is sanctioned from the highest levels, becuase it is very profitable! I agree with the previous posters in that this needs to be fought as a group action. There are several cases now, where Deutsche Bank have lost in foreclosure/reposssession cases in the USA through not being able to produce an original contract and not being able to prove "who is the holder in due course of the debt instrument", i.e who currenlty owns ther mortgage. Hope this helps. Happy to discuss.