just for your reference, I had exactly the same situation with a finacial instituation (an old storecard) in which they sold the debt to a DCA, both companies had placed a default on file, you are quite right, you should only have one reference to each agreement on your credit file. In my case the original financial institution removed the default as they had sold or "legally assigned" the debt to the DCA, in this instance the FI after a little persuasion removed the default (although this was needed more because they argued that they had long since stopped supplying data the the CRA's, as opposed to not wanting to do it - I think this highlights a valuable point that whoever now owns the balance or has the balance assigned to them is the only party that should be supplying data [if any!] to the CRA's) as they agreed that as the debt was assigned, the whole agreement was now with the DCA, although I am going after charges with the FI, they have offered to credit the account with the DCA. I have to be honest, I argued, that they should pay me, and I should pay the DCA if that is what i decided because the account is no longer with them, although, strictly speaking the fees they have applied to the account have not been paid as the account still has a balance owing and is therefore still in default. so I am still a little undecided on my next step here However, ss for removing the default with the DCA as well, to be honest if there is a balance outstanding I understand this to be near impossible, although some on here say that if the DCA (in this case) cannot supply the original agreement and/or default notice they should remove the default from the file As you have already been advised above, you really do need to study long and hard any relevant post on these topics, I know there is a great deal of info on here and it can take a lot of time to get through it, let alone to get an answer, although the truth maybe there is no hard and fast answers as every situation is different in its makeup and your desired outcome Good Luck with your situation !

Following the default removal / CCA request theme, it seems that a detailed flowchart type process could be quite useful, however before I publish an example for your approval I wanted to get your thoughts on this as a letter template, The scenario: Mr Data Subject has a default on his credit file (either satisfied or still outstanding) So the data subject has sent a letter by recorded post and applied for 1. a copy of original credit agreement, 2. a copy of the original default notice, 3. a copy of any notice or deed of assignment, 4. a statement of account the subject sent the letter enclosing the statutory £1 fee in accordance with the CC Act and advised the creditor of the 12 working day timeframe etc over 12 days later but before the 12+30 days is up, the subject has recieved NO reply, so what about sending this ?? (Your name Your Address) (The Date) Dear Sir/Madam, Default Notice on Credit Files You have failed to reply to my letter dated XXX which was delivered to you by royal mail’s recorded delivery service. You have now exceeded the statutory time limit to supply the information requested. Therefore you are now required remove any data relating to me (The Data Subject) that you have supplied to any credit reference agencies in its entirety as unsubstantiated. This request is made in accordance with the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77−79). In addition, I am also serving you with a statutory notice to cease and desist from disclosing personal subject data pursuant to Sections 10 and 12 of The Data Protection Act 1998. Furthermore, If you fail to action this request in the next 21 days I will have no further option but to consider legal action and refer this case to the Information Commissioners Office, The FSA, The Ombudsman and Trading Standards as appropriate. Yours Faithfully (Your Name) With This Enclosed (a mod of I think its Surely's template - with thanks !!) Statutory Notice pursuant to Sections 10 and 12 of The Data Protection Act 1998. Data Subject Notice To: Data Subject: Address: You have failed to supply me with any proof or copy of my authorisation or consent for you to disclose personal subject data to third parties. Therefore, take notice that I require that you cease from processing within twenty one days of the receipt by you of this Notice, or else that you do not begin to process any personal data of which I am the subject insofar as that processing involves the communication or passing of personal data of which I am the subject to any third party and insofar as the said data relates wholly or in part to the implementation by you of alleged defaults or contractual breaches or breaches contrary to The Common Law. This Notice is given on the grounds that the processing or continued processing by you of the said data will be likely to affect my credit rating and my reputation and cause substantial damage and/or substantial distress to me and my family members in addition to that which has been caused to date. And that as the processing of the said data in the way referred to in this Notice would violate both the Principles and Data Subject’s rights of The Data Protection Act 1998, to do so would be both unwarranted and unlawful. Signed: Dated: Your Thoughts please, as I would like to create a flowchart to help answer some of the many different scenarios that are being experienced by other members, and to possibly create a step by step guide for the subject of defaults etc as this would appear to be every bit as big a problem as unlawful charges - many thanks, and if you feel you can contribute/ help with the flowchart please pm me, I am by no means an expert, I am just trying to condense and streamline all of the info on here regarding this subject if you feel this maybe overcomplicating the matter please say so.

I have reposted this here: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-charges-print/47895-claim-damages-truro-crown.html

Just seen an article on local bbc tv news tonight, (SOuth West) a female bringing a damages claim against Abbey after recieving refund of charges, she was helped by a guy called Bob ? Case was thrown out by Judge according to TV, as he stated "he was aware of claims of this nature and that no case had been tried Etc etc" Anyone have any knowledge ??

Hi ncf355, and thanks for your reply, Sorry to sort of hijack post, I will start a new thread with my GE cases, as there are a few and they throw up some interesting questions which I think will help many other as GE info is a bit thin on the ground. . . just to reply to your comments, It is a tricky one, out of 5 accounts with GE, they have only supplied an agreement for 1 of them, all have balances o/s now with either AK or CL F, the charges + interest add up to near enough the balance o/s, but the big issue for me is the defaults on my credit files, so with that in mind I am thinking do I accept what is offered, then persue the issue of them having/cannot supply the original agreements to work towards getting the defaults removed with CRA's ??? How is the "original agreement" thing stacking up at the moment, I read on some posts that there could be a spanner in the works, in so much as they may not have to supply the "signed true copy of the original agreement" ??

Hi Sarah, Firstly, good luck with your claim !! I have read and I am watching with interest !! I also have a number of accounts with GE Money, and although I have been offered a full refund of charges they are refusing point blank to refund interest on charges, which I originally only claimed at 8% (silly me), so I am now wondering, do I go for it and claim the charges plus interest at 34.4% on charges (according to the original agreement for payment by any means other than DD) plus if it goes to a claim which I guess it will 8% stat int on the lot. Also interestingly there are of course only willing to refund the money to the accounts which are now either with Aktive Kapital or CL Finance of course !! What do I do, tke the offer and run or go for it, I am kind of in the opinion that I have nothing to loose, and they are in the wrong so go for it. BTW does anyone know the normal rate for ge storecards burtons etc is it 29.9 ?? because they have also failed as you would expect to supply original agreements !

Hope you feel I have posted in the right place, I guess I am posting a copy of this letter on here to discuss the legalities, but mods feel free to move to store cards (cant help but notice GE dont have their own sub sec) or DCA's if you feel its better suited there. Had 2 old store card agreements with our friends first national (now GE) both defaulted and passed to the lovely Aktiv Kapital, the mission - get hideous charges and interest on charges refunded and get dam defaults removed (incedently both GE and AK have placed defaults on fuile for same debt !!!) I have sent S.A.R - (Subject Access Request), to which GE replied with a half hearted effort, excel spreadsheet type list of credits and debits, for both account, and for one of the account stated the all to common "we cant go back any further" Meanwhile, sent CCA request to AK and GE AK so far have replied with an original agreement but no default notice, GE have offered to refund charges as goodwill, but only as credit to AK - not acceptable my reply is as follows, which I guess I am posting 1. to see how the gurus feel it stacks up and 2. feel free to cut and past if bits of it may help your claim! Sarah Wainwright Data Protection Administration GE Money PO Box 700 Leeds LS99 2BD xx/10/2006 Dear Sarah, ACCOUNT NUMBERS: xxx & xxx Thank you for your letter dated x November containing contact details for Aktiv Kapital. You state in your letter that, “whilst an amount remains outstanding with Aktiv Kapital we are not able to send a refund directly to you. If you wish for information regarding these accounts you will need to contact them directly” These statements have raised a few queries which I respectfully request you clarify. Firstly, I would like to assure you that I have already entered into correspondence with Aktiv Kapital, with regard to the validity of the amount they claim is currently due to them from the above accounts, under a notice of assignment I have received from them dated x/x/x.(not original date of alleged issue, instead date of letter replying to CCA request) My queries and requests therefore remain valid to First National as they relate to the period covered by the original agreements between myself and First National. Upon further investigation of the list of transactions you supplied to me with your covering letter dated x/x/x, I have discovered that I have also been charged interest on the unlawful charges which you applied to my account number xxx. I have now calculated the amount of interest charged on the unlawful fees to be £xxx.xx as of today, and I now request that you refund this interest. As per my original request to refund the unlawful charges, you have 14 days in which to reply to me accepting unconditionally my request in principle. In light of this discovery, I must assume that you have also charged interest on the unlawful charges applied to account number xxx, however In your reply dated x/x/x to my Subject Access Request dated x/x/x you state that you do not hold data prior to July 1999 for account xxx. In light of this I am currently unable to calculate the amount of interest unlawfully charged to this account, as the data you have supplied to me was incomplete insofar as there is no mention of any balance of the account, merely a list of debits and credits. I must therefore insist you comply fully and properly with the initial subject access request and supply copy statements for both accounts from the inception of the accounts. If you fail to comply with this request I will have no alternative but to refer the matter to the Information Commissioners Office. I would also remind you that you have 40 days from the date of my initial subject Access Request to comply. However as this matter has only now transpired, and considering the 40 day time limit has already passed I am prepared to extend you a further 7 days to comply with this request. This also leads me to believe that you have failed to comply properly with my subject access request insofar as you have not supplied any details or indeed a copy of a notice or deed of transfer or assignment of the above account, this is also reinforced by the fact you have returned my cheque for £2 and advised me to contact Aktiv Kapital. Because of your actions I can only assume that the agreement between First National and myself has in fact been terminated, if this is case however, then neither have I received any documentation from you either now, as part of my subject access request, or at any such time that the contracts were terminated, to advise me as such. I therefore seek your clarification of this issue. I reiterate my request for you to remove forthwith any data supplied to Credit Reference Agencies in relation to the above accounts, in particular the fact that First National has lodged a Default on my credit files. As you have so far been unable to provide me with a copy of the original default notice then I must insist that this information is removed forthwith as unsubstantiated. Furthermore, if the contracts have in fact been terminated between First National and myself, then I am contesting that First National’s continued processing of my data is an unwarranted act and I will forward a Statutory Notice to that effect, on the basis that my written permission allowing First National to continue processing, or disclosing, my personal subject data is revoked upon the termination of the original contracts. Furthermore, if the original agreements between myself and First National have in fact been terminated and if the debt has in fact been legally assigned to Aktiv Kapital then any arrangement to settle any legitimate amounts outstanding will now be a matter between myself and Aktiv Kapital. For this reason and because the amounts I am claiming from First National in respect of unlawful charges and interest were applied to the account whilst the contract was in force between First National and myself then I must insist the refund of unlawful charges and interest is paid directly to me. I would like to offer you my assurance that it is my intention seek clarification from Aktiv Kapital with regard to the amount that they now claim to be owed to them as the balance of the account has risen from £xxxx.xx according to the figures you provided to me on the x/x/x, to £xxxx.xx according to the correspondence received from Aktiv Kapital. I am therefore in the process of corresponding with Aktiv Kapital to clarify how they have arrived at this amount. I therefore reiterate my acceptance of your repayment offer of £xxx.xx as part payment of the total amount in respect of charges and interest on charges on the above accounts, on the basis that it is paid directly to me in the form of a cheque. I would also appreciate your confirmation of your intention to refund a further £xxx.xx in interest on the unlawful charges on account xxx whilst in the meantime I await your urgent compliance of item 2 above so that I may calculate the unlawful interest charged on charges on account xxx. Yours faithfully, Mr X

As part of my credit file tidy up, i have CCA requested to many companies for "copy of original agreement & copy of original default letter" One company that has replied has sent a copy of blank agreement form and blank example default letter. Am I right in thinking I am within my rights to reject this and also my right is for a copy of "the Orginals" ie, in the case of default letters, the ones that were sent (if they were) or for agreements, the ones actually signed by me ??

I have a default on CRA file from Next for home shopping account, In the process of waiting for reply to CCA request which was sent on the 18th so 12 days are up soon and still no reply, I will probably also sent a DPA SAR also as I guess there will probably be some charges on the account, although I have requested a "statement of account" as part of the CCA request, however my guess is it will be a "your balance is X" as opposed to full list of transactions including charges, that is if i get a reply

Hi, Following SB's fantastic posting about sorting the CRA's and DCA's I have decided to tidy up one's own credit file, Experian - not too bad, Equifax - Oh Dear, not good reading !! My query is this, I have a few store card debts, you can guess who with i am sure, now they have listed them as defaults on my file, but then our friends over at the DCA have also got the same account under another entry with the same account number and have also listed a default !! surely you cannot have 2 defaults on the your file for 1 debt ?? I am assuming that either option 1, - the creditor has sold the debt to DCA in which case my CCA has terminated and so therefore should the entry on my file from them, or option 2 - the DCA is collecting on their behalf, in which case I have no agreement with them whatsoever, so why have they taken it upon them selves to sumbmit this info to the CRA's ?? I am proposing to write the standard 12 day CCA request to the DCA's listed with a view to getting the defaults removed that way, but do I have grounds to get the CRA to remove duplicate entries anyway, or is it the old "we only publish what we are told" chesnut "you will have to contact the provider of the data" rountine Any thoughts / experiences

following my prelim request for refund to lloyds for a number of personal and business accounts, I have today (on the 14th day !!) recieved a second responce in relation to the business account. Basically it is what I am guessing is another standard defacto letter saying "I understand you feel are charges are unfair [the prelim letter states unlawful]" I am not going to uphold your complaint because . . . blah blah blah when you make a payment that takes you account in excess of your facility it creates extra work etc etc [no mention of the costs involved of course!] we believe the oft ruling does not apply to banks etc etc and all the rest of the nonsense [will scan and upload if you want as it does appear lloyds are tailoring replies within the 14 days going by my reply and other postings] so I am sending LBA anyway because it is the 14th day and I need to put them on notice that I intend to proceed, especially as they have not yltimately refunded the charges and I do not accept there responce, my query is weather it is right to modify the LBA with something like considering we ask for personal dialogue in letter 1 (prelim) and they have sort of personalised the reply ??? I also wondered if it ever came to court one would have to show that one did not accept the initial responce in some form of dialouge ?? any thoughts appriciated. my LBA idea is below... ----------------------------------- Customer Service Recovery Centre – Andover Lloyds TSB Charlton Place Andover SP10 1RE Your Ref: Our Ref: LETTER BEFORE ACTION Dear Sir/Madam, SORT CODE **-**-**ACCOUNT NUMBER *** Thank you for your letter dated 11th October 2006. In my original letter dated 27/9/06 I stated that “I now understand that the regime of fees which you have been applying to my account in relation to direct debit refusals, exceeding overdraft limits and so forth are unlawful at Common Law, Statute and recent consumer regulations”. I also requested that, “If you say that they are not, then will you please demonstrate this by letting me have a full breakdown of the costs to which you have been put by as a result of my breaches, in order to reassure me that your penalties really do reflect your costs.” Whilst I appreciate your reply, I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law. I am frankly shocked that you have operated the account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as my fiduciary. I calculate that you have taken £****.**, and I require repayment of this money. If you do not return it to me in full within 14 days, I shall begin a claim against you for the full amount plus interest, plus my costs, without further notice. Yours faithfully, Mr XXX

Hi Sarah, Firstly well done to you and everyone else who are going to fight GE, I have just sent off a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) to GE listing multiple account numbers which I have had over the years, and although some are now settled, some are with Cohens, Lewis and whoever the hell else they sell/pass these debts to. I have also in the past had letters from Aktiv Kapital relating to these, It would appear GE sell the debt,(maybe after first using one or two collection comapnies of there own) to one company who then use another (or its still them, but just a different trading name) to collect, and possibly it goes to further companies even after that !! I have found Lewis to be most persistent I always find the "all correspondance must be in writing" stops the calls quite well. So, to this end I am going to go after GE first for charges, then and if I find any other third party have added fees, i will go for them also. Out of interest, and in order to clarify which collection company is which, all credit and collection companies MUST be registered with and have a consumer credit liciense, on the licience apllication, they have to list every name they intend to trade under, unfortunately it doesnt look like this info is online YET, and you would have to do it by phone or letter, have a look at the OFT consumer credit licience website below: Consumer credit licensing online

Hi Everyone, just joined up after reading about the principle on Martins site (moneysavingexpert) Wow !!!, I have managed to find most of my statements (being self emplyed helps with this i guess !!) and have calculated 4859.00 and 212.50 from 2 accounts with lloyds already - still got my sole trader accounts and accounts with barclays to work out yet !! A couple of questions though . . . I spent all last night reading the forums as reccomended, but still couldn't really work out the answer to compounded interest ? At the moment, I have just listed all of the charges on the spreadsgeet and have not worried about interest for the time, i thought best to play safe and just send initial claim letter with just charges and then go for the what seems to be standard 8% on everything if i have to file claim - does this sound like the best way to proceed ??? also, the good old over 5K question, I am imaging it is likely my total claim with lloyds will be nearer 10k, should i claim each account individually to keep under 5k mark or go for it all with each bank in one claim ?? Any advice appriciated - and thanks for all the great advice and info on this site will keep you posted !!

Hi Everyone, just joined up after reading about the principle on Martins site (moneysavingexpert) Wow !!!, I have managed to find most of my statements (being self emplyed helps with this i guess !!) and have calculated 4859.00 and 212.50 from 2 accounts with lloyds already - still got my sole trader accounts and accounts with barclays to work out yet !! A couple of questions though . . . I spent all last night reading the forums as reccomended, but still couldn't really work out the answer to compounded interest ? At the moment, I have just listed all of the charges on the spreadsgeet and have not worried about interest for the time, i thought best to play safe and just send initial claim letter with just charges and then go for the what seems to be standard 8% on everything if i have to file claim - does this sound like the best way to proceed ??? also, the good old over 5K question, I am imaging it is likely my tatl claim with lloyds will be nearer 10k, should i claim each account individually to keep under 5k mark or go for it all with each bank in one claim ?? Any advice appriciated - and thanks for all the great advice and info on this site will keep you posted !!