I written an initial letter to the outsourced body from the Law Society that deal with complaints about 'other people's solicitors' outlining how I have objected to their bullying tactics and about them offering me a WP settlement of 50% and telling me in the same letter that if I declined it, then they would tell the court that while they were being reasonable, I was not and my refusal of their letter proved that. Chances that anything will be done or that Cobbetts will be forced to change their ways? Pretty close to sod all, but hey, it makes me feel better and anything that inconveniences those people is ok by me

Ohhh, Cobbetts have got so far up my nose during my recently won case, that I think I might just have to do this myself. They offered me a 50% settlement "without prejudice" and then said that they would tell the court if I said no (which I did) as it showed that they were being "more than reasonable" I'll let you know how I get on

There are a few points that proved to be pivitol.... When you press send on the small claims court action. THat is when you know it is serious. The fact you have to pay really steels you to it. Then it is when the banks solicitors file a defence at the last possible second. It is really disheartening as with a day to go you start feeling like you are going to get a walkover. It is real downer when they file. Just after that when you get the court allocation questionaire. The fact that they ask such dumb questions to things they already have the answers to gives you a real boost, especially when you take the templates for your answers to their CPR Part 18 Request and then fire back your own. The tough one though is when they try to drag you into playing Deal Or No Deal. My total claim was for three and half grand, and I had to stay focused on that when the offer of £1750 came through the door. By this time you have been at it a few months and it is so tempting to take it. That is when you need to come back here to talk to people that will talk you out of accepting it. It seems a lot of money, especially when you thought you would never see that cash again, but be strong. Once you have said no, you start feeling really strong. It was at this point I told the bank that I wanted to call their Chairman as a witness. I did it to amuse myself, and I probably should have taken advice on it as a tactic and how it would be viewed by the courts, but it did the trick as 4 days later the check was in my grubby mits. But overall. be strong. You say you are doing this for your son, so it shows you care enough to fight for him. So just think of the banks as the playground bully stealing his lunch money. You wouldn't let them off and you wouldn't accept only part repayment, would you? You would do whatever you need to do to get the result. But, hey, don't just listen to my thoughts, talk to the likes of WillowB that have been at this longer than me. If you are ever unsure, just ask. Thanks and good luck

I WON, I WON, I HAVE BLOODY WON...... Just got a cheque for three and have grand. I am obviously going to wait for it to clear before I send the forms back in to the court. THANK YOU SO MUCH to everyone for their help and support. I did get wobbly at times but the likes of WillowB got me through it. Thanks and yes, once the cheque clears then I will of course be making a decent donation to the website. I think the final thing for them was that after they had kept ignoring my request for a breakdown of how they calculate the charges, so I told them I was applying to the court to call Sir Tom McKillop (Chairman of RBS) as a witness to explain in person to the court how the charges are calculated. Almost a shame really as I was looking forward to that. That and sending the baliffs into the bank would have been the perfect way to end, but a bog fat cheque will do... Now on to GE Money.

All changed and now in the post. Will keep you updated. Now onto my new fights.... Halifax for late payment fees M&S Money for misselling me an 'arrangement' Egg for adding 'payment protection' without my consent GE Money for £2000 in early redemption charges Thant should keep me occupied for a while - but now that I am pretty much straight financially, I will enjoy every second of it. As and when the money comes through from RBS, I will of course be making a donation to the cause. Is 5% an acceptable amount (that comes in at around £150)

You are a star... thanks Willow

Willow - thanks for that. The reason for the mentioning of my 'without p' was in response to them saying almost exactly the same thing about their offer. "Whilst this letter (from Cobbetts) is written without prejustice save as to costs, in the event that you decline this offer, we will draw this letter to the court's attention on the basis that we hold the firm view that this offer is entirely reasonable in the circumstances". So it was just me telling them that I had already tried to be reasonable, so don't try to threaten me. Do you see whereI was coming from? If I am missing the point, then let me know and I will ammend before sending. I must admit that it is only the Citizen Smith in me that stopped me saying 'yes'. After all, it was money that up until a few months ago, I thought I was lost forever. But I can't let the revolution down even if my wife looked at me like I was nuts when I told her I was going to tell them to sod off. Aussie - You were about the same place I was so, I should think you will have an offer in the next two or three days. Stay in touch and let me know how you get on.

RBS (via Cobbetts) have offered me £1750 - some way short of the amount being claimed for.... so I am about to send them my response. Can I have any thoughts from all your experienced eyes as to whether this covers things. All comments gratefully recieved. ............ Dear Cobbetts, Thank you for the letter dated 3rd January regarding RBS’s offer to pay just £1,750 of my claim. Although I appreciate yours and your client’s offer to make a payment in an effort to avoid the necessity of court action, I must decline this unacceptable amount. I had previously made a without prejudice offer to your client of settling the claim for just the amount owed, rather than applying the interest and costs as well. This offer was made early in proceedings so that we could not only avoid wasting as much time as we already have, but also to negate the need for paying solicitors and court costs too. However this more than reasonable offer on my behalf was dismissed out of hand – something that I have already advised the courts of. I am also still awaiting your response to my last letter which including the answers to the questions you required. As your records will show, that correspondence also included my own Part 18 request (a copy of which was also forwarded to the courts) yet despite being given ample time and allowances for the Christmas break, I have not yet received a response. As solicitors, you are no doubt aware that such a request must be responded to with in the given time. I am therefore looking forward to receiving those answers in a full and detailed manner by return in order that we can resolve this matter. I have also informed the courts that I was always prepared to pay the actual costs incurred by your client with relation to returning the direct debits/cheques/standing orders in question, however without response to my request for a full breakdown of these costs, I am not actually able to work out that figure without going to court. Therefore if your client is genuine in their desire to resolve this matter without going to court, I would suggest that they provide me with the full and detailed breakdown of costs involved in their actions. If your client remains unwilling to provide this information then the only options available to them will be to pay in full the amount owed, along with the interest and the court costs that I have already incurred, or that they allow this case to be heard in court. I look forward to receiving your earliest response. Yours faithfully

Hi guys, have been a bit busy fighting other financial fights (and getting there). I will get back to going after this one very soon and will keep you posted. Thanks

After a long slog I am almost back on the financial track. With credit rating that had improved just enough to get a sensible rate high street mortgage I am able to ditch my GE Money secured loan. As you will all no doubt know, they want to charge me a an early redemption penalty of about £2k (exact amount is in the post apparantly with a breakdown.) As I am on the verge of victory against RBS (see me seperate thread - they just offered me a 75% settlement which I am about to decline) I am pretty well up on proceedure and will be sending the prelim letter in the next couple of days. The statement arrived separetely this morning and I see a couple of late fee charges. As they come to only £80, I thought I would simply call them to see if they would refund them as the amount was not too huge. I am then told by a 'senior manager' that "we are not a bank, we are a finance house, so the OFT ruling does not apply to us and we can charge you anything that we put in to the contract you signed when you took out the loan" (which incidently was nt with GE Money, but 1st National as there is no way I would have gone with a company so nortoriously unethical as GE if I could have avoided it) Now, I am 99% sure that that is b*ll*cks. But I do want to check. The fact that dozens of people on this forum are claiming and winning against GE Money seems to back this up. But does anyone have any thoughts and is there a seperate SAR letter template than the one you send to regular banks? They even confirmed to me that the fees were "Penalty Charges" (and therefore by definition, punative) NEXT ISSUE.... INTEREST..... please stay with me on this and if I have missed the point, not worked something out properly or am not making sense, then let me know. The loan amount was for £37,500 taken out 2 and half years ago (the first 5 months required no payment) over 15 years. I have paid the best part of £8k off the loan and yet the amount showing as a balance is £36,782 (this does not include the £2k early redemption penalty which is on top of that amount) Now I appreciate that the compound interest on the outstanding amount is significant, but what does not make sense is that they show a variable rate of interest which has obviously risen in the last couple of years. Yet, my agreement was for a fixed amount and a fixed number of payments to repay the loan. So am I missing the point that they can't vary the amount of interest that they are now trying to charge me? Plus the fact that whatever way I try to work it, the payments of £8k made should have reduced the amount owed by more than just £718. It would appear - and do please correct me if I am wrong - that they have worked out the amount repayable at the begining of the agreement - which in this case was £64800, which is a interest profit amount of £27,300 or £1,820 a year. Over 2 years that is £3,640 of interest. Meaning that they have double the amount, but what I assume is front loading the way that the interest is charged. Is that also legal, or can I claim for this too? It is just that I reclaimed a regular unsecured loan early a few years ago and the proportionate amount that I had paid off compare to this was vast. It worked out, if my memory serves me correctly, that the split in repayment and interest was about 50/50 so I had paid something like £2000 off the loan and the amount had reduced by about £1000. Make sense? So repaying £8k and only reducing by £700 seems wrong in every respect. So the questions are: 1) Is there a specific letter template I can use to reclaim the ERC? 2) Is there a claim to be made regarding the amount of interest paid vs the amount of capital repaid? ie have GE Money acted unlawfully? 3) Is there a way of working out what the amount should actually be? 4) Am I talking/writting nonsense? 5) Anyone else fought this one? Thanks for your help

I complained and they told me that they had a recording of me on the phone saying that I was fine with a record being made. My point is that the implications were never made clear to me. I could not complain if they had made me fully aware of the facts, but they didn't. All they said was that a record would be made - as I was hardly expecting them to just remember the information this didn't seem an issue. It just seems so daft that if they had explained it to me, I would have asked them for a regular loan and we would all have been fine. Years ago when I was little more than a teenager I got into a similar situation with First Direct, but they offered me a loan to sort it out - a loan which was paid normally and everyone was happy. I may be guilty of not taking due dilligence, but it has to be worth a shot - after all, I am not asking them for any compensation, simply that they help me rectify their ommission

Ah, one step ahead of you. I found that earlier and have already taken one of the templates (from the Nat West guy). I have started making the necessary changes to reflect my circustances and will post it in the morning. I'm on a roll now, I am starting to prepare cases elsewhere (fortunatley for much small amounts) and may give one of them a go via the Financial Ombudsman to see if they have any teeth. I checked it out and it seems that although Banks have to abide by their decission, I don't so if they do turn out to be useless, then I still have the court option. Any thoughts on the FO?

Well, that was interesting. Just spoken to the help desk for online claims and the very nice lady there sounded like she had been asked every concievable question about going after banks. When I asked if that was the case she chuckled and said that she does deal with 'quiet a few, actually, everyone seems to be doing it' so it looks like the consumer action group is doing its thing. Now, I called about a really random letter that Cobbetts (RBS's solicitor) telling me that I hadn't given enough information. Given that you only have a limited amount of space on the online claim form, this seems a little harsh. Cobbetts also claim that it is my duty to prove the law and consumer regulations. They tell me that the case will be struck as I did not include back up information with my claim (which I couldn't as there was no place to do that) and that I have 'embarassed' myself by 'failing to disclose reasonable grounds for bringing the claim'. Nice lady at the court has told me that none of this is down to the solictor and that only the local court can decide what constitutes evidence and sufficient information. The solictor also told me that unless I responded to them by the 18th then the case will be struck - this is also nonsesense as again, they can not have the case struck. Anyway, the lady at the help desk did advise me that there is a questionaire on its way to me and that I should contact my local court (in this case Ashford, Kent) and ask them what they would like to see. I can obviously supply them with printouts of statements and of the interest calculator. Does anyone have any other thoughts about what I need to give them? I assume that the solictor is just full of puff about all this, but I want to make it as easy for the court as possible. Do I need to be armed with any details of law, statutes or consumer regulations. I certainly don't want to come accross as a smart ass as the judge is still probably going have more knowledge than me. Any thoughts?

Aussie, let me know where you start your post and let us stay in touch about this. Our dates match up exactly, so I would be fascinated to see if they handle us differently. I am claiming the best part of £3k, what about you? I got a letter from RBS's solictors today with something about their defence in it - CPR part 18 request. When I get a minute this evening I will read it properly and then check back here for advice. If anyone out there has anything to tell me about part 18, then please let me know asap. Thanks again to everyone out there

About 2 years ago I was in the financial mire. An attempt at being self employed was floundering and along with some complicated personal issues, I ended up with a couple of out of control credit cards. I was able to tame most of them through a combination of some generous help, a slice of good fortune and plenty of hard work, but nearly £7k to M&S Money was simply not budging. I was finding it almost impossible to meet the minimum payments and end up missing a couple of payments. So like a good boy I followed the advice we are always given about keeping an open communication with the bank. So I called M&S and explained the situation. They seemed really helpful and we came to what they called 'an arrangement'. Now I thought that this was just that and the terminology was purely descriptive. Although they did mention - and I mean mention rather than explain - that our arrangement would be recorded, at no point did anyone explain the serverity/stupidity of what I was about to do. I didn't think much more about it until I was turned down when I tried to re-mortgage recently. I decided to check my credit file and it turns out that an arrangement is not just mentioned, it shouts all over it and appears to be only half a step aware from the dreaded CCJ. Huge red marks all over it and only just stopping short of a full page add in the Times saying to anyone interested that I am as good a bet as Robert Maxwell with a pension fund. I complained to M&S on the basis that if they had explained the situation then I would have looked at other options. When I took out the arrangement with them my credit score was not perfect, but it would have been good enough to get a reasonably priced loan. So I could have take that route - maybe even with M&S Money themselves. At the time I had it in my head that it really was a temporary thing (which it should be) and that I didn't want to get into more loans. When I wrote to M&S I was nice and friendly, said that I did not feel I had been fully made aware of what I was signing up for and that I would like them to a) restructure the debt into a standard loan and b) that they ammend my credit score. Do I have any sort of a case? Or is it all down to me? My credit file has been trashed by this and getting reasonably priced credit is going to be almost impossible for the next 6 years. I am not disputing the fact I owe the money, and I am not blaming M&S for having got into that position, but I am furious about the non-disclosure of the full facts. Your thoughts on the matter would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

Much appreciated. I have been so close to getting sorted financially and the proverbial light is almost within reach, but when the banks are in a position to help they offer out their hand and then whip it away at the last second. My next issue (for which I will start a new thread soon) is with M&S Money. In brief, I got into a mess about 2 years ago and I followed the advice that 'we' are always given - i.e. to contact the lender and talk to them about. I did and M&S Money 'very kindly' agreed to help. They told me that we could set up an arrangement so I could pay them a bit less while I got myself straight. At the time they told me that the arrangement would be recorded. What they failed to mention is that 'arrangement' is not a friendly term refering to them helping me out, but a technical term for "deadbeat borrower, steer well clear" and that 'recorded' actually means "we will put massive red splodges all over your credit record so even Eastend loan sharks wouldn't lend you money again. So if anyone has thoughts on how I structure a complaint to the Financial Obudsman, then let me know. Other than that, thanks to everyone for their encouragement - it means a lot

Knew it was too good to be true.... they filled a defence at the last possible minute thus wasting a bit more time. They already got a time wasting extension to turn 14 days into 28 days, now I have to sit and wait for the court date. I have done a pretty good job in the last few years of banishing anger and hate from my life, but the way the bank are behaving are making that really difficult now. So, what now. Any idea how long to wait before the court date is set? I have had no comunication from either RBS or their solicitors - no pitiful token gestures, no letters, nothing. Any thoughts? I am just getting nervous. Although I read a post elesewhere on the site last week about the fact that no one know of anyone that has lost a full case (a couple of partial loses, but nothing that went through the steps shown on this site), I still get a nasty feeling that I am going to get shafted. Everyone else seems to get communicated too in some way, but the bank are just ignoring me. Is this a new tactic or am I just panicing unnecessarily? Thanks

Knew it was too good to be true.... they filled a defence at the last possible minute thus wasting a bit more time. They already got a time wasting extension to turn 14 days into 28 days, now I have to sit and wait for the court date. I have done a pretty good job in the last few years of banishing anger and hate from my life, but the way the bank are behaving are making that really difficult now. So, what now. Any idea how long to wait before the court date is set? I have had no comunication from either RBS or their solicitors - no pitiful token gestures, no letters, nothing. Any thoughts? I am just getting nervous. Although I read a post elesewhere on the site last week about the fact that no one know of anyone that has lost a full case (a couple of partial loses, but nothing that went through the steps shown on this site), I still get a nasty feeling that I am going to get shafted. Everyone else seems to get communicated too in some way, but the bank are just ignoring me. Is this a new tactic or am I just panicing unnecessarily? Thanks

it's 7:45 am and in an one and a quarter hours I can apply to file a judgement by default for all £2871.27. One new question I have thought is that in time between filing the claim and today, those lovely people at RBS have taken another bunch of charges. Any ideas as to whether I will have to start a new claim for those charges; be able to add them to the existing claim or whether I cn tell RBS that with one court ruling against them on the matter, they may as well just give me the money or I will will complain to the financial authorities that they are a not a fit 'person' to hold a credit license? As always, experience and thoughts greatly appreciated

Thanks, but other than 'these charges are unlawful', what other defence/case is there? When I went through the worst period of these charges a couple of years ago I contacted them at the time to try to sort it out, but they just told me to stop exceeding my limit. They would then really annoy me by sending letters with their notices of bounced DDs that said that if I needed to discuss the case or re-arrange my spending limit then to contact them to discuss it - I would, they said no and then they would still send me the same letter again and again. I know that I have to sit tight, but in the mean time, is there anything that I can prepare? Thanks

Amount claiming: £2573 First letter sent: 18st September Banks first denial: 4th October Notice of action letter: 6th October No response from bank by: 20th October 20th October: Called bank only to be told that as far as they were concerned it was case closed and they had no reason to refund my mone. Court action started: 3rd November (had to wait to be paid so I could afford the £120 court fee) Letter from court: recieved 18th November (dated 16th November) The court letter simply said that an Acknowledgement of Service had been filed by the defendant (Royal Bank of Scotland) and that they have 28 days from the date of service of the claim form to file a defence. Does this mean 28 days from the 16th November or 28 days from 3rd November? Or is it from the 8th November as the court forms say that the claim will be considered served 5 days after I submit it? Or is it the 10th to take into account the weekend? Thanks Alex

Thanks for the reply. I was more hoping, than expecting that they wouldn't put up a fight.... But I do have some questions: 1) How do I complain about the unnecessary 28 day extension? If I do, is it something the courts acknowledge or do I just have to accept that they have the right to waste time? 2) Assuming the worst and this does make it to court. What do I need to back my case. I have a print out of every charge made with the dates. I also have the print out of the interest calculator that details the different amounts of interest I am claiming against each individual charge. 3) Will I need to know the exact details of the law surrounding all this, or will the judge be well aware? I don't want to patronise the judge and come over as a bog fat know it all. I want the guy on my side. 4) Does such a thing as a 'standard* case study' exist that I can use to present my case. For example, is there set text that I can read out as to demonstrate to the court that what these xxxxxxx shysters are doing is unlawful and that they know it and should therefore be giving all my money back? 5) Is there a 'standard response' to when they say "charges set out in t&cs..... blah, blah, blah..... reflect our costs etc..... waffle waffle..... his responsibility to manage his account.... blah blah" * I know that in law there is not much that is standard, so please don't give me a cliched 'how long is a piece of string' response, I just want some guidance in building a case so I am as prepared as possible. What have other people done in this situation? Has anyone got to court and lost? I am well aware that it is always a possibility when going to court, but seriously, do we have any examples of people actually losing? Thanks

Just 2 days before their 14 day deadline was up to respond to the SCC case I am bringing against them, I get notification from the courts that RBS' solicitors (a practice called Cobbetts LLP in Manchester) are intending to contest all of the claim in court and they have requested a further 28 days to prepare their case. It is sizeable claim (just shy of £3k with interest going back over 5 years) but surely with all the precidents set, they are not actually going to show? Is this just a delaying tactic? Can I expect some sort of letter from either RBS or the solicitors telling me to back off? If it is a bluff and they don't show in 28 days, will the court take action or can I ask them to take action against RBS for deliberatly wasting time - after all there is more interest to add since I made the claim, plus they have just hit me for another £30. Do I need to prepare any sort of case? I have a print out of all the charges and the interest calculations (thank God for the interest calculator on this website as it would have taken hours otherwise). I am just getting a bit nervous. I have been working hard to get a second income going through a new business (please check out sleazy-rock-n-roll on ebay and buy some T-shirts) solely to help us get out of the financial mess and I could really do without becoming the legal system's guineapig. Bye for now :o

The Virgin One Account have just called me to basically say "go ahead, see you in court". They said they phoned as a courtesy to save me having to wait for the 14 days following my second letter to expire. I must say that I am a tad impressed by their balls. Not even a hint that they would like to avoid action or that they would consider reinvestigating. Please tell me they are just playing a great bluffing game.... I have just ordered the Lawpack Small Claims Kit from this site, so I suppose I am well on my way to, in the words of Kilroy "to save or to shaft". I could really do with getting this sorted by Christmas. Does anyone have an idea of how long these things take? Judging by their performance so far, I assume the bank will at the very least wait until the last possible moment to avoid court action, so I could do with knowing how long it is possible for them to string it out.

I am so grateful that you guys are here trying to help. I am claiming nearly £3k from Virgin One (aka The One Account, run by RBS). As expected they have told me that I can't have my money back, that they will not investigate this case any further and that if I am not happy then I can go to the Financial Ombudsman (for which they helpfully enclosed a leaflet) The Financial Ombudsman doesn't get much of a mention on the forum - any reason why? So, whilst I have now sent the 'Letter Before Action', I suppose I better steel myself and prepare for the possibilities of court. Now this is where I would like advice - when I was first introduced to this site the message was loud and clear that the banks will pay as they don't want to go to court. However, the more I read, the more references I find about having to go to court and where I can buy a small claims court pack. So, what is the standard course from here? Do I get the court stuff ready? Which court do I apply to? Any idea of time frames? Thanks and good luck to everyone