..

Thanks for that Andy. So when the hearing happens do I have to be there?

Hi Andy I am not sure I am following any of this at all - really sorry to be so dim. So if it is a hearing to decide the application to extend what happened to the draft order I submitted of the "unless by 4pm on the 16th ........." I am confused as to what it means amnd is it a good thing/bad thing/not good or bad at all that it is now to be heard at my local county court? Also what will happen next? Sorry for all the questions but I am very confused (may be something to do with the two weeks I have just had off!!)

Hi Brig So do you have any idea what the timescale is for them to take action

Thanks cymruambyth - all details taken out & rescanned & reposted.

##UPDATE## Hello Again all - its been a few quiet weeks and today I received some documents through from the NCCBC - A N271 Notice of transfer of proceedings form, A N24 General Directions order and a copy of my N244 form that I faxed to NCCBC on the 9th August The case has been transferred to my local County Court but it is the General Directions Order I am uncertain about. I have read the General Directions order a few times and I am not sure what to do next if anything. Can you lovely people give me some guidance at this stage please? Many thanks The images of all the pages are below.

Brig & Andy I know you are both right - I shouldnt get too angry about this but its not easy when my loved ones and I have had to deal with this C##P for the last few years. Well a couple of hours of lifting some heavy weights and my daily 1 mile swim this morning helped my frustration thats for sure:) Cheers for that Andy - I ask these questions now so that I can study up on what may be coming so that I can be as prepared as possible rather than panciking at the last mimnute. Huge thanks guys - keep me on the straight an narrow!!!! OK Protein & Salad time :)

Morning Andy Thanks for that OK to answer your questions - I submitted what you suggested word for word in post http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?276583-1st-Credit-amp-LCS-Battle-court-papers-received-help&p=3517152&viewfull=1#post3517152"]#432 Stuck out in short I agree about concentrating on the defence but I do want to understand the process of being able to counterclaim because of the way this has been handled from the start. I want to win of course but I also want this bunch to be accountable for the way they have handled this from the start - both they and Citi have acted shockingly not to mention unlawfully and have ignored OFT guidelines etc. I want to do what I can to ensure that they both stand to account for the way they have acted. The OFT and TS already have the report I prepared and I am going to report them to other bodies as suggested in previous posts in this thread. It takes a lot to get me angry ANdy but I am mad as hell at this bunch and they have started a fight by instigating court action so I intend to win it anyway I can

Hi Andy I wasnt trying to test you. Just passing on what I was told thats all! please dont shoot the messsenger!! just to clarify, what the lovely Lauren did say was that they wouldnt contact LCS or 1st Credit right now about the fact that I had submitted the N244, but that when the DJ has given his/her directions that would be the point that both the claimant and I would receive notification of their decision. I completely take your point that they are not mind readers. Well I reckon I have about a month now for the DJ to have a look at this and then a further 2 weeks to see what LCS/1st Crappy will do with all of this. I do have some questions in relation to the part in the N244 part 3 that states "Should the claimant fail to respond to the defendants draft directions that the claim shall stand struck out without further order and costs to be considered and summarily assessed" 1) - what does it actually mean in practical terms for the claim to be struck out without further order? 2) - Is there anything at that point that a defendant needs to do or is it all over?. 3)- Also in relation to the costs to be considered and summarily assessed bit - how are the costs worked out? 4)- how do I assess how much to counter claim for as well?

Hi Andy Just an addition to your comment. I faxed off the N244 & Draft order and then called the NCCBC in order to make the £45 payment (what a rip off) and spoke to another very helpful young lady called Lauren. I asked her to have a look at the form and the draft order to make sure Ihadnt missed anything off or filled anything in incorrectly. That was all fine so I asked her about what the procedure was from this point on and she confirmed exactly what Sharon said last time. I asked her about the need to write to the claimants or their solicitors and inform them that the N244 form had been submitted she said "There is no requirement for you to have to write to the claimant or their solicitors unless you really want to. I then asked her how long it would take for a District Judge to look at this and it could be 3 to 4 weeks. I then asked her again about the need to write to LCS (I made a joke about being reprimanded if I didnt let them know!) and she did her best to give me as extensive reassurance as she could that it really was not essential at all to have to write to them but if it made me feel better then go ahead and write to them I also asked her if the court would inform LCS that the N244 had been submitted to which she replied "oh no we dont call claimants or their solicitors; its up to them to call us if they want to find out what is happening"! So we now have 2 members of the court staff that have said the same thing which is actually good to know they are singing off the same hymn sheet. I will do what you suggested and send LCS a 2nd class letter next Friday which should reach them by the time the DJ has come to a decision:) In all seriousness though with what I have submitted is there any chance that the DJ will not grant the draft order for the CPR requests and also the extension of time under CPR 15:5?

I did promise to find the thread that gives a very detailed defence in relation to when a dodgy default notice was issued and I have all of this ready to include in my defence statement - it can be found HERE Also if anyone else has any other threads that they would recommend I have a look at please post them all up so that I can have a look at them all. OK now its research research research!!!

Thanks Elsa Well at the moment there is not a lot to do except see what comes back from the DJ. In the meantime I can see a few weeks of in depth scouring of this forum for all the appropriate threads on default notices, non compliance with CPR requests, No original CCA's etc etc as I may just have to put a defence together. There is a huge amount of detail on here for all apsects realting to this issue and I know I am not treading a path that hasnt been trodden before and it is very reassuring to know there are others who have been there and back and can guide those of us that havent been down this road before.

I couldnt agree more Brig - huge thanks to you and everyone else Well lets see what the outcome of this is as it is out of my hands once this is at the court.

OK well the N244 is now all done printed off and ready to be faxed to them tomorrow - I am still smiling at sending a copy of this next Friday :)

Well I am like a classic lamborghini Uracco P250 - I dont run as well or as fast as I used to but I do get there eventually - albeit I keep going wrong and need to help of experts to get me there but I get there eventually :) I think I am getting the hang oif all of this now -

Oh I love that - send the letter the day after the deadline - very naughty but I like it and 2nd class too:)

Ahhhhhhhh uuurrrmmm well I have no idea what the heck she was on about then but I quoted her word for word. I wonder why she said there was no need to let the other side know that I was putting in the N244??????????? thats a bit worrying if thats the advice they are giving Ok your point is taken - so what do I do then just post them a copy of the completed N244 form RD???? And what would happen if I didnt copy them in on?????

Andy a couple more questions relating to the Draft Order - (in red)

Cheers Andy - phew we got there in the end! It was interesting when I spoke to the lady at the court about the N244 process that LCS will not be informed that I have put in the N244 and if they then go for summary judgement on the deadline it is then that they are told that there is a bar on judgement:) I would love to be a fly on the wall on the day they find out that they cannot force judgedment. As a reminder to what the lady said at the court when I called to ask about the N244 process from post #265 I have copied part of the post below. This is now going to be a waiting game and its then down to preparing my defence which I am sure I will ned fiurther help with (and no doubt Elsa & Andy will put on their gardenning gloves and get out the hedge trimmers, lawn mowers, strimmers, secateurs and chain saw to rip it to bits:)

Hi Andy Sorry to be a total thcko here but in box 10 do write out the exact wording of the draft order or just write "See attached draft order" just want to be 100% certain I have it right.

##Greetings one and all## Having not been in front of the screen very much over the weekend I seem to have lost the plot a bit. I want to get the N244 to the court today or tomorrow if that is at all possible and I have summarised the relevant threads that relate specifically to the wording of the main parts. Can you wonderful people please cast your eyes over this and make any changes, suggetions, amendments so that we can reach an agreement on what the final wording is going to be. I know Elsa had a good old hack at my first version and if there is further pruning to do I would really like to think this can be done todya or tomorrow so that it can all go off. Personally I thinlk that Elsa's suggestions are excellent but I am more than willing to take the advice of the experts here Again huge thanks in advance. N244 Box [3] of the N244 : An order seeking the Claimant's compliance with information and documents requested pursuant to CPR part 18 and CPR 31.14 and an extension of time pursuant to CPR 15:5. Should the claimant fail to respond to the defendants draft directions that the claim shall stand struck out without further order and costs to be considered and summarily assessed. The application is made because of the Claimant's refusal to comply with the Defendant's two CPR 18 requests and CPR 31:14 request, thereby making it impossible for the Defendant to prepare a proper Defence.' Box 4 : 'Yes' Box 5 : 'Without a hearing' Ignore Box 6 Box 7 : 'None' Box 8e: 'District Judge' In Box 9 write: 'Claimant' In Box 10 tick the box marked 'the evidence set out in the box below' and beneath it write: 1.Firstly the Defendant takes issue with the Claimants pleadings. The particulars of claim made no mention of an agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit act 1974, upon which the claim is based, nor a Default Notice which is required under s87 before enforcement of such an agreement can take place. This has necessitated seeking confirmation from the Claimant via part 18 requests on 04/07/2011 and 21/07/2011, and a CPR 31.14 request on the 29-07-2011. 2. In response to the request for a copy of a signed agreement relating to the claim, the Claimant stated: "You have been provided with the agreement upon which we intend to rely. You acknowledged receiving it in your letter dated March 2010" The defendant would clarify here that the agreement to which the Claimant refers was not a copy of a signed original agreement. What were supplied were two different reconstituted versions in response to a s77-79 request. Both inaccurate yet purporting to be an agreement which the defendant had signed. No indication has been given which of these two agreements the Claimant intends to rely on in Court. Furthermore the defendant does not believe that supplying conflicting reconstituted agreements more than a year ago is sufficient to satisfy the current 31.14 request for a copy of a signed agreement pertaining to this claim, and necessary for enforcement under s. 127(3) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. 3.In response to the request for a copy of the Default Notice (and/or a copy of the communications log recording issuance plus proof of posting), the claimant simply stated: "You were advised that you were sent a default notice in May 2007" and "we further take the view that you are able to file and serve a defence in the absence of a default notice" The defendant has never received a default notice, and no documentary evidence of issuance has been supplied by the claimant. The defendant respectfully points out that agreements regulated by the consumer Credit Act 1974 cannot be enforced until a compliant Default Notice has been issued. The defendant therefore believes that evidence of the Default Notice is crucial to this case. 4. In response to a request for a current statement of account to show how the amount claimed is calculated, the claimant responded . "the statement of account was included in a letter to you dated 21 April 2010" 5. In response to a request for further time in order to prepare a defence following production of these documents, the claimant responded: "we refer to your fourteenth paragraph and the last paragraph of our 19 July 2011 letter, thus your defence is to be filed by 18 August 2011. If you fail to file your defence by 18 August 2011 we will apply for judgment and if unpaid then we will enforce the judgment" [Reference: The defendant's "fourteenth paragraph" was the request for additional time. The claimant's "last paragraph" stated "As to your defence, we are instructed to consent to an extension of time. As the original limit was to expire on 21 July 2011, we will agree to an extension to 4pm on 18th August 2011. If you require further time you will be required to make an application."] The defendant feels that this response is intimidating and unreasonable in the light of the Claimant's refusal to comply with disclosure. 　 The Defendant appreciates that his inexperience as a Litigant in Person led him to include far more in the CPR requests than, with hindsight, should have been included. However the core elements were valid requests and were specifically refused. Copies of the correspondence are enclosed, with the relevant points highlighted for ease of reference. If the court is in agreement, the defendant respectfully requests that special directions may be given as per the attached draft order. The defendant proposes these directions in mind of the Overriding Objectives, and in particular the duty of the parties to help the court further them. The issues outlined above are the crux upon which this claim rests, and the proposed directions identify these issues and will allow them to be assessed in advance of the hearing so that this claim may proceed justly and expeditiously; Without production of the requested documents, the defendant is at a disadvantage and unable to serve a particularised defence. Failure of the claimant to supply the requested documentation will make the case much harder for the court to deal with as without production of the requested documentation will inhibit the courts ability to deal with the case. The Defendant is concerned that the refusal of the Claimant to respond to his two CPR18 requests and his subsequent CPR 31:14 request puts him at risk of a default judgement without having the opportunity to defend himself within the deadline agreed by LCS of 16:00hrs on the 18 August 2011. The Defendant therefore requests under CPR15:5 that a further extension of time is granted to allow the Claimant to comply with all of this order and to allow the Defendant sufficient time to prepare a defence should the Claimant provide the information detailed in this order ------------------------------------------------------------------------- DRAFT ORDER FOR DIRECTIONS DRAFT ORDER Between ************* - Claimant and xxxxxxxxxx - Defendant Draft Order Unless by 4pm on (date) the claimant complies with requests made by the defendant on 04-07-2011- and 21-07-2011 pursuant to CPR 18 and on 29-07-2011 pursuant to CPR 31:14 to clarify information pertaining to the defendants request and provide copies of the following documentation:- 1.Copies of the Agreement and any documents/terms and conditions referred to within, which the claimant seeks to rely upon. 2. A copy of the Default Notice and Proof of Postage 3. A current full statement of account showing how the balance claimed is calculated 4. The Termination Notice 5. The Notice of Assignment, with proof of service of the same compliant with s196 of the Law of Property Act 1925. 6. Copies of any statement or other document relied upon The claim shall stand struck out and the defendant shall be at liberty to enter judgement against the claimant without further order of the court and [ii] the Claimant shall pay the Defendant his/her costs of this case to be assessed on the standard basis and pursuant to the provisions of The Litigants in Person (Costs and Expenses) Act 1975.] In the event that the Claimant shall comply with this order 1.The Defendant shall within 14 days thereafter file his defence 2.The Claimant shall pay the Defendant the costs of this application [assessed in the sum of £xxx

I have tpo go out now guys but will be back later - will take lap top with me as we are visiting mother in law later so Iwill sign back in then

..

..

Thanks Elsa very happy to be guided by Andy - and you have done a sterling job too!!