Oh sorry about that dx, I didn't think

They've sent a proper dq, I just hadn't posted that as I can't see there's anything worth posting here I only posted the covering letter as I thought this was all standard practice My dad had this a few days before he even remembered to give it me and he's only had it around 2 and a bit weeks Let me know if you need all the pages uploaded 20231216_230528.PDF

Claim History Your acknowledgment of service was received on 06/11/2023 at 01:06:51 Your defence was submitted on 22/11/2023 at 11:12:28 Your defence was received on 22/11/2023 at 12:05:16 as for lowells...thats all it says, i saw the letter from them and although i didnt spend long reading it, they had def filled in questions about mediation and stuff I just re read that lowell letter they've not sent it to court yet. Apologies. I thought everything was done through the court so the system would show it immediately

Nothing showing on MCOL so when do we get to say yes or no to mediation if we don't get a questionnaire?

Don't think it does but I'm sure the other side said we'd be getting a questionnaire so I just assumed

The other side have had a questionnaire sent to them around 2 weeks ago but my Dad hasnt a questionnaire to fill in yet - how long should he wait as id have thought he would have had it by now? should i contact the court?

Will do HB

Defence submitted anyway thanks for everyones help

ok mate thanks, ill be sure to add hes a landlord but we ll just have to see what happens

Well the info BF posted said what energy companies need to do, and they didn't. I don't know what a judge will think but I look at it, as its just as much a gamble for lowell to chase that amount when only half of it can reasonably be considered due to him. He ll get his day in court like he wants, if he loses so be it

Just to confirm after speaking to him, he's def not admitting even the standing charges he says so I'll just put the defence in as above Thank you

I appreciate that, I'll ask him but I'd be surprised if he wants to

They knew it was empty, the previous tenant told them when they left and we told them too - we always send meter readings off so theres no dispute as to how much energy the prev tenant used. They had no reason to believe anyone was in there. When they wrote asking who was responsible in Aug 19 i believe Dad had spoken to them on the phone around that time so they knew from the horses mouth it was empty until May 30th 19. They had sent someone round to check the meters just after the new tenant came in in may 19 so they had their own copy of what the readings were They know exactly when it was tenanted and when it was empty

Yes youre right, he has owned it years. What im saying is - Npower billed him for £1000s to start with as the prev tenant left owing tons, they eventually reduced it THEN, in August 19 told him he had 30 days to tell them who was living at the property from Sept 18 to May 19 or they would then put him on a deemed contract from 6th Sept 19 which is months after the bill in question date it was probably empty for so long as hes old and doesnt get round to sorting stuff out quickly

The property was empty approx 7 months which i estimate to around £135 according to their bill and as stated, we have no way of knowing what the prev bill this bill is based on, is made up of i think if they had looked into who owned the house earlier ( they didn't until 7/8/19 and they then gave him 30 days before a deemed contract would be put in place) and then put Dad on that contract then he's responsible for any money owed after that. I personally think its worth arguing that they didn't follow the rules for such contracts but i await your advice. Ive told Dad to screw them and go to court and have his say

Thanks Andy. I understand what you're saying and I was going to add that to the defence but i thought it would go on the WS. Id have thought that the whole point of this is that they haven't followed correct procedures for a deemed contract. They've billed him and then told him they will put him on a deemed contract afterwards, many months after the bill, not to mention that they haven't followed procedures for such contracts which is surely worth a debate to a judge? which do you think is the best avenue to go down?

OK, noted and amended. Thank you 1. I the Defendant contend, that the particulars of claim are generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made. 2. The claimants claim is denied. I have never entered into an account with NPower. I never lived in nor used any energy at that property. Therefore the bill in question relates to a period I was not the occupier of the property. 3. The POC refers to a failure to maintain contractual payments required under the terms of the account agreement. The claimant has failed to provide any evidence that any such agreement was in place, again it is denied as I have never held an account with NPower.The claimant has failed to provide any evidence that any such agreement was in place. 4. The claimant appears to have bought an alleged debt from a utility supplier and despite my statutory request for information both from the claimant and also the supposed energy supplier, they have not provided me with personal data relating to any of the claim, the alleged agreement, the basis of the agreement or how the sum claimed has been calculated. 5. Additionally, although there is a statutory provision for interest on claims, 8% is not a statutory sum and it is in the discretion of the court and given the current low rate of interest, 8% is completely disproportionate – in the event that the court finds against the defendant. 6. There still remains an unresolved dispute with Lowells 7. Pursuant to the civil procedure rules Practice Direction 16 (7.3) Where a claim is based upon a written agreement. 1) a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be available at the hearing. With the court’s permission the Claimant is put to strict proof to: - a) show and disclose how the Defendant has entered into an agreement. c) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim. The Claimant has stated they may request the court accept a contract existed based on other evidence available, in the absence of any signed contract, but has failed to disclose to the debtor, any evidence that a contract was ever entered into. 8. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5 (4) it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed. 9. It is therefore denied that the defendant is indebted to the claimant as alleged or at all.

ok, ive looked at what Andy put there. Bankfodder wrote 1 and most of 2 that i have put above, so should i use that or Andys way of describing it?

The defence needs to be filed soon, ive got this so far - can you let me know what you think please @Andyorch 1) I do not owe the claimant any money as they alleged or at all. I deny that I had an agreement in with the claimant. The claimant appears to have bought an alleged debt from a utility supplier and despite my statutory request for information both from the claimant and also the supposed energy supplier, they have not provided me with personal data relating to any of the claim, the alleged agreement, the basis of the agreement or how the sum claimed has been calculated. I personally turned the gas and electricity off whilst the house was empty for safety, so i cannot be responsible for any energy used. Additionally, although there is a statutory provision for interest on claims, 8% is not a statutory sum and it is in the discretion of the court and given the current low rate of interest, 8% is completely disproportionate – in the event that the court finds against the defendant. 2) The claimant claims that contractual payments were not met. The Claimant is put to strict proof of the agreement, its terms, and the basis upon which they now say that the alleged agreement has not been honoured by the claimant if such an agreement exists at all. 3) The bill is currently in dispute with Lowells due to it being estimated 4) It is an estimated bill. Energy readings were provided at both the end of one tenancy and we have copies of the readings at the start of the next, so no need for an estimated bill, an agent even visited the current tenant within 14 days of her becoming a tenant, so there must be accurate meter readings. 5) The steering group guidelines section 2.4 SLC 28(8) clearly state what the procedures are that should be followed regarding deemed contracts. Despite numerous requests, the claimant has failed to provide requested information: a) details of the principal terms of that deemed contract b) written notice that contracts on terms other than deemed contract terms may be available and as to how information can be obtained as to any such terms the claimant is put to strict proof that a) and b) were ever provided when the alleged assumed contract was started. 6) The claimants solicitors state that on 22/9/18 an account was entered into, yet a letter from Npower on 7/8/19 states that they are still requesting information as on who to bill, it goes on to say that if they dont hear back within 30 days they will put him on an assumed contract which clearly disputes the claimants solicitors letter. 7) Npower have confirmed they have NO record of any information regarding this customer nor this account. SAR has not been fulfilled to prove any account was ever created as stated by the claimant We have no way of knowing how this bill is made up as it is partly due from another bill which has not been provided. 9) Under Civil Procedure Rule 16.5 (4) Where the claim includes a MoneyClaim, a defendant shall be taken to require that any allegation relating to the amount of money claimed be proved unless he expressly admits the allegation. Therefore, it is expected that the Claimant be required to prove the allegation that the money is owed as claimed. 10) The Defendant respectfully requests the court orders the Claimants to provide the necessary documentation in order for the Defendant to fully plead his case else the Claim should stand struck out. We have found photos of the meter readings 3 days after the tenant actually moved in, and npower have overestimated by approx £70. The tenant cant possibly have used that much as she'd moved in those couple days, not living there yet. I have told lowell the bill is disputed but ive not gone into any detail other than its estimated. Npower sent someone round just after the tenant moved in, and took meter readings. This needs to be in by the 24th i believe. Do i need to add or edit anything?

Thank-you dx, I'd read some of that yesterday. What is the "ws" you refer to?

Acknowleged service today, sent CPR yesterday recorded my friend who has a fairly senior role at Eon, and works in commercial debt says that i should dispute the bill with Lowells, and add that to the defence when submitted as a court wont proceed with a disputed bill he says. Have you tried that before on here? He says Lowell are then likely to pass that back to Npower for clarification which might mean i get to complain to the ombudsman and get the bill re assessed?

thanks dx and BF - Reading that it sounds like theres no point going to court? the bill was sent within 12 months (22/9/18- 9/9/19). I realise you know way more about this than i do but i can only say that if they are going to put someone on a deemed contract, then they need to do it properly - they havent from what i can see. They never told him about his chance to go onto as different contract at different rates, or the terms etc Im not going to stand by and let them throw their weight around, they dont scare me, weve got nothing to lose if theyve already got that bill. They billed him first and then put him on a deemed contract, that cant be right. They claim he entered into a contract in 2018 and yet in 2019 they admit they have had to ask who was responsible for the bill. they ll be lucky to get a penny out of my Dad even if they win

thank you guys, always welcome your responses

Which Court have you received the claim from ? Civil national business centre Northhampton MCOL Northampton N1 ? Manual Claim CCMCC (Salford) ? New beta WWW.MONEYCLAIMS.SERVICE.GOV.UK - i can file a defence online i believe If possible please scan redact and upload a full page copy of page 1 of the claim form. (not the response page or AOS) already done Name of the Claimant ? Lowell portfolio How many defendant's joint or self ? 1 Date of issue – top right hand corner of the claim form – this in order to establish the time line you need to adhere to. 24th Oct 23 ^^^^^ NOTE : WHEN CALCULATING THE TIMELINE - PLEASE REMEMBER THAT THE DATE ON THE CLAIMFORM IS ONE IN THE COUNT [example: Issue date 01.03.2014 + 19 days (5 days for service + 14 days to acknowledge) = 19.03.2014 + 14 days to submit defence = 02.04.2014] = 33 days in total 25th Nov 23 Particulars of Claim What is the claim for – the reason they have issued the claim? Please type out their particulars of claim in full (verbatim) less any identifiable data and round the amounts up/down. state how many digits the account number has.. Particulars of Claim The claim is for the sum of £239 due by the Defendant under a power account with an account reference of xxxxxxxx The Defendant failed to maintain contractual payments required under the terms of the account agreement. The debt was legally assigned to the claimant on 04-06-21, notice of which has been given to the defendant. The claim includes statutorv interest under S.69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at a rate of 8% per annum from the date of assignment to the date of issue of these proceedings in the sum of £19 What is the total value of the claim? £260 Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ?yes Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? no Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? NA Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? energy debt rented property When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? no agreement entered but assumed (deemed contract) to have entered 2019 Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? see above Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? no Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. debt purchaser Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? yes Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? yes Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears” or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? i believe so Why did you cease payments?NA What was the date of your last payment?NA Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? no financial difficulties

thank you, that sounds just how a court would expect it to be