Hi guys - I'm back! Yesterday p*ssed me off immensely, I'm sure you felt the same. So I re-read my original & subsequent posts and reflected on them. My bad & I apologise to any offended. Perhaps when arriving at a quiet party the best approach is not to kick the door down, spray lager everywhere and turn the music up. It's difficult for me to restrain my passion on helping people get into work (and I don't mean job search). As for me FWIW, I'm a raving capitalist with a huge social heart (if that's possible). Profit has always been my king in any business I've run, but only so I could keep the bosses off my back whilst I used plenty of that profit uplift to make the work environment the best I could for the team. Inevitably, every boss got silly and punch drunk on what my units could deliver & I got shafted with targets. That meant significantly altering the standard of living/enjoyment of my people - I'd never put my name to that, so I always sought new horizons. My journey has brought me to working/training/motivating unemployed people back into employment. Your experience is of the work programme but the greatest tragedy is the raging inefficiencies in funded training. Which as Mr.P pointed out, are often worthless to the client. The training provider on the other hand will collect over £1,200 for some "training." (e.g. 3wks 16-18yrs). Put 15 people in a room and do your maths on the margins they make. That market is about qualifications, regardless of how/if it helps the client get a job. The WP is the right way to do it - payment on outcomes but the application & delivery has just been beyond awful, but I don't need to go into that as you all know. So @Dyfed, what's the magic trick? It is job creation. If you make training delivery financially efficient, target the training at specific jobs/industries so people can elect to train for a job they want and create enterprises that help people get work experience (paid or unpaid depending on the needs of the client). That is more than possible, and that is what I do. The lavishly funded colleges don't want to play that game though, after all, they'd want to protect their fat margins. So my goal is to disrupt their "offer" of training for qualifications and replace it with training for jobs. There's some great material here: theworkfoundation.com/Reports ( I do suggest the greatest urgency you can afford in securing employment though. I did a study in 2007 & the outcome pointed to a significant deterioration in economic activity in late summer/early autumn 2013. I dismissed it, disbelieving that govts would bet the farm on propping up financial institutions as they did. They are now up to their credit card limit and have to cut their cloth. I might be wrong, but looking with my eyes rather than reading the media - I don't think I'm going to be proved wrong albeit the timing may be slightly off. On the back of all my assumptions, I came here to try to help you do whatever it takes to remove the influence your WP provider has on your lives. And I don't have a political persuasion, every govt since the 70's has had a hand in the situation we now find ourselves in and none have solved the structural problem of unemployment. Don't know whether I've explained myself better there, whether it was needed or wanted. But there it is. Good luck all with whatever you do & help yourself, because those that are paid to help, invariably don't.

@antone: I don't offend easily, but people disappoint me sometimes. And whilst I'll go elsewhere - I still have a voice @raeuk: I'm not a WUM, apologies to anyone who felt so @dyfed: Right wing, left wing - I care not for any of it. I'm just interested in helping people get jobs. @Mr. P: Very much the voice of reason. Your comments are spot on, especially about the worthless training. May be I should have tried it that way first. (And the Govt excluded local schemes purely by the onerous contractual terms placed on being a contractor, therefore, only the multi-nationals could afford the upfront costs). And for any that dismissed my opinions in the manner that you so despise Ingeus doing it. I forgive you.

The polite thing to do if someone arrives with the best intentions but perhaps not in the manner afforded by experience, is to welcome them & guide them if they are sailing close to the wind. "Learn & understand." Has anyone afforded me that courtesy today - has anyone tried? You can keep your big sticks & subtle censorship - I'll take my time & efforts elsewhere. So much for waking up today & having the wild notion of trying to help/support others. This is why people are reluctant to do it.

If I see someone in the street & I think or perceive that they may be in need of assistance, I'm the one that walks over and offers that assistance. I don't walk by. I don't see the "specific intention of scolding its members," I do see having a different perspective, perhaps that may resonate with some & help. As much as advice dealing with Ingeus can be offered, can a discussion on how to help each other get a job be allowed? Or how best to approach dealing with Ingeus? You play a dangerous game of censorship when one of the site team appears to try & bully someone here with the clear intention of assistance (albeit from a differing perspective), off the thread.

At least we are starting to get some ideas through about what should be done. There might be more than a few business owners who might want a vigorous debate about that suggestion RP. Anyway, this thread seems initially to be about individual issues with WP (Ingeus) providers. Anyone got any ideas as to how they can get into sustained employment? Tackling the "what the Govt should do" might take a little longer than all of us have. What can "we" do to help each other?

Well, the responses so far have regrettably been completely expected. Bar Ismael (hat tip to you for coming up with some ideas). I figured that I'd be tagged as some Ingeus/Govt supporter & then someone else would deconstruct one of my posts referencing aspects that have nothing to do with what I'm saying. As for the WP providers withdrawing, there's more than enough information in the public domain for you to easily gather which ones. Back to Ismael, unfortunately you are right. The "proper" apprenticeships you mentioned are in the manufacturing sector - and we all know how that has been decimated over the last 20-30 years and is receiving a final nail in the coffin now. Money isn't being thrown at WP providers as you'd think, firstly it is principally an outcome based model, i.e. you get job, they get paid, and even then, it's over period of time they get sustainment payments. The Govt is throwing money at apprenticeships. Employers get a £1500 apprentice grant after 13 weeks which isn't too bad considering the apprentice wage. There is also a Young Persons Wage incentive - best part of £2500 for an employer. Overall, I think you are heading in the right direction with the idea. Rather than throwing money at unhelpful training courses (most, not all!) & legions of funded organisations set up to advise people how to get jobs or encourage them into self-employment, there's a lot to be said for allocating greater amounts to employers creating employment.

If you are not priviledged enough to have a computer, you'd be happy to use an out-of-date one. I'll say it again, Govt schemes tend be be inefficient, and I'll add to that, my opinion is that they aren't effective. "Some" job seekers have a better chance of gaining employment without intervention, not everyone. "Some" depend on whatever support they can get. Not everyone is as eloquent or gifted in an IT sense as most posters on here. As for "profit-driven." I'm not aware of any WP provider having it away with profits. Quite the contrary, many are seeking to withdraw from the scheme because they are making losses.

Defensive???? I've pointed out it's inefficient & made it clear I don't have much time for either the Govt or Ingeus. I totally accept the "success" rates you have quoted. As I said in my original post, no-one seems to be coming up with any answers. If you can identify that the quality of service is poor, you must surely have some ideas as to what good looks like? The celebrated strategies on here only serve to defeat your own aims. I'm asking the question, can we come up with any ideas that might help everyone and you can influence your experience on the work programme for the better. So any suggestions anyone?

This thread strikes me as very odd. There's a group of people sharing strategies to thwart the main aim of a company that has the same goal as them - namely, to assist you into employment. Given that being on the work programme means you have suffered unemployment for an extended period, it would seem obvious that you should take any help going. But instead, you seem to be wanting to make life as difficult as possible. Now, don't get me wrong, Govt schemes of any measure tend to be inefficient & the rationale of some processes seem rather obtuse. But frankly, it's their scheme and you are only on it because you are accepting benefits from them. Therefore, I'd say that they have a right to decide how it goes, who runs it & how. Let's just say you were in a different position & a family member was in your current position. You lend them some money to get them by until they find work - would you accept that it's good manners to let them know what you are doing to find work in order to pay them back? How would you feel if, after accepting your money, they started telling you what jobs they would accept and whether they would share information with you? Or when they will come round and update you? The extreme side of this is the individual who has added to their CV, "I do not give authority to share information with the DWP etc...." to their CV & cover letter. No employer in their right mind would interview you. That strategy is beyond self-defeating. You will get good Ingeus advisors and bad advisors but I'd argue that your experience is worse because of the approach you take with them. The taxpayer is ultimately paying them to be there, their offices, their IT equipment etc... They offer training courses - some good, some bad. What should they do? Offer nothing? But everyone here seems to have a clear opinion on what they shouldn't be doing, given that, I'd guess you have a clear idea of what they SHOULD be doing to help you. No-one has mentioned what that is (although I haven't read all the thread). I'm happy to engage in this thread & offer ideas for you but I'd like to be pleasantly surprised that people are prepared to understand a different point of view. I'm not in love with the Govt or Ingeus and have never worked for either. I've seen first hand some of the damage that the disability benefit changes have caused. So, is anyone prepared to discuss how this thread can help them? Share ideas & strategies for helping each other into work?