Hi Mike, Andy HB and everyone. thanks to everyone at CAG - you guys are really fantastic. And yesterday when i came out of that miserable court room, the sun was ou, it wasn't cold and the world was lovely. So the next thing is getting the money. !! Again, we've been at the receiving end. We know he will now plead poverty and drag this on. whats the best, the most expedient and brutal (I mean that in the nicest possible way) way you know? Also, can you advise. he did threaten to me that if i sent bailiffs around to his house, he would come round and kick my head in (I am sure he meant that in the nicest possible way also, and again, at CAG we can all understand this.) But I am not an institution trying to take advantage, I am just some bloke off the street whose struggling like everyone else. look forward to your comments thanks very much Wrecked.

Hi Mike and everyone Thanks for all the advice and sticking with me. i am really glad to let you all know that i won the case. For the benefit of others - i want to advise that you cannot submit a second witness statement unless it was directed by a judge at a previous hearing or you made a request and its accepted. my supplementary witness statement was not accepted. Similarly this particular judge would not accept the W/S submitted by the other side. this was a mystery to me as he was directed by the judge at the previous hearing to submit a further witness statement. Thanks Stu007 and in particular, thanks very much Mike_Hawk and Andyorch for your advise. All the best/Wrecked.

Hi Mike thank you so much for your message. The Defendant was not late in filing his latest W/S to the court. only he did not send me the copy at the same time. He only sent me the copy of his latest W/S after he received my latest W/S. his latest statement which he submitted to the court, containing his schedule of repayments was dated 30/01/2013. His letter objecting to my submission of my W/S was dated 05/02/2013 and I received both documents in the same envelope on 14/02/2013. I will just write a letter to the court and bring this to their attention but i dont think anything will come of it. Finally - having admitted to the judge at the last hearing that he had no record of his repayments, the Defendant, in his latest witness statement claimed to have kept a record of his repayments and produced a schedule of repayments and signed a statement of truth. However, every date of his schedule of alleged repayments were dated one year earlier!!!!. So it would appear that he has committed perjury. I dont really know how the DJ will view this will let you know tmrw. all the best/Wrecked.

Hi Mike thanks for your fast reply. i am preparing stuff to ask the defendant as, well, basically everything he said had been lies. I will try and do it in such a way so its not confrontational but more for clarification. And regarding the intentional delayed service of statement, i will do exactly as u suggested but the hearing is Monday so i got to get in early and submit the letter - or should I just hand the letter over to the judge in court.?? (and copy the Defendant at the same time of course) thanks so much all the best/Wrecked.

Hey Mike Great to hear from you. Phone or not, glad you are still around. If you need help with yr PC/Laptop, let me know i can help as there are some basic things you should do unless its a hardware fault. Regarding my case things seemed to be going well but a couple of my witnesses have dropped out as they cannot attend due to their work commitments. I only found out tonight and theres not a lot I can do in that regard now. Whats SCT? Can i ask questions to the Defendant at the hearing? - he is not represented and neither am I. I just want to clarify regarding his very latest witness statement a. he did not send me a copy at the same time as he sent the court. he held back sending to me. b. i noticed that there was a stamp on the envelope but the envelope had been re-opened and a sellotape had been put on it to close it. c. it seems that originally, he inserted the a copy of his statement for Court dated 30Jan,in that envelope to send to me and put a stamp on the envelope but he did not post it to me. d. on receipt of my supplementary statement on 04feb, he then wrote his objections to the court and opened the envelope, inserted his letter dated 05 Feb to court, sellotaped the envelope shut and then hand delivered it to my house on 14 Feb. e. that can be the only explanation why there was no post mark on the stamp, and the letters dated 30Jan and 05 Feb were together in the same envelope. f. Again, I only received these docs on 14 feb which is significantly less than the 14 days required. Should I deal with this and bring it to the judge's attention? I feel I should. But whats the best way of putting it? had he sent it to me on 30Jan, I could have submitted my response to his second statement. He acted with specific intention - to prevent me from submitting a reply to his second statement. g. My last question is - he submitted a schedule of repayments without attaching any proof. Surely he must provide proof. I must be within my rights to ask for proof. All the best/Wrecked.

HI I did some research last night into the small hours and it would appear that i was correct. i can submit a second witness statement to a hearing providing i submit it in good time (which i think is normally 14 days from hearing date) I can even submit an amended statement.. but i have to title it "Supplemental Witness Statement" see CAG link http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?254386-Amending-a-Witness-Statement I titled mine "Supplementary Witness Statement" and i think thats ok as I had done it in the past and in any event both words are adjectives and mean the same. but i would welcome your comments Best/Wrecked.

Hi Everyone I really would be interested to hear your views on the case As far as i am aware, i am fully entitled to submit a second witness statement before a hearing - please correct me if i am wrong. I went through his alleged schedule of repayments and i noticed that he got the months and the year all wrong. The loan was made in Nov 2006 and in his first statement he claimed to have repaid it over the following year, with the final repayment on 03/09/2007. But, his witness statement and schedule of repayments showed that he was repaying through 2006 with the final repayment on 02/09/2006. This really shows the fictional side of his claims. However. would/could this be accepted by the Judge as an honest mistake on the year? furthermore, should he not provide proof of his repayments? look forward to yr comments/Wrecked

Hi Everyone I received the followings from the other side. a. He wrote to me dated 05 Feb., objecting to my submission of my additional witness statement clarifying my position and all the inaccuracies he listed in his statement he said that I did not seek leave from the Court - I do not believe I need to seek leave from the Court to submit a witness statement before a hearing. b. He wrote to the court requesting it to disregard my statement c. having told the Judge at the last hearing that he never kept a record of his alleged repayments to me, and that he thought that I did, he has now submitted a witness statement confirming that he kept a record of his repayments to me. He wrote the the Court on 30 Jan but did not send me a copy. d. I only received his letter to the court and his second witness statement today as attachments to his objection to my submission of my 2nd witness statement - which i did as per Mikes Suggestion. Its my understanding that he is to submit statements 14 days prior to the hearing date and he must copy the same to me. The copy statements he sent me were not signed nor dated. But more specifically, he never sent me a copy of his letter to court dated 30Jan - until i submitted my second witness statement,. I shall be grateful if you will kindly let me have your thoughts on this. many thanks/Wrecked.

Hi Mike and everyone, Sorry i hv been off line for a couple of months but there was really nothing new to report. The hearing date is set at 18Feb. (1) The Defendant did not submit any new witness statements or provide a schedule of repayments as the Judge had instructed him to do (2) I did not receive anything from him 2 weeks before the 18th. (3) so does it mean that anything he submits this week would be out of time. (4) Could he submit this schedule of payments to the court and not me? he was specifically advised by the Judge to submit his schedule of repayments and Copy me. (5) I had done as Mike had recommended. I went through his Witness statement and then prepared a fresh statement and submitted this on 04 Feb. (6) he made many comments in his statement some of which were irrelevant but never the less, were untrue and i listed these and proved the inaccuracies with supporting documents and statements. (7) as it turned out, virtually every comment he made in his statement was inaccurate. (8) The key aspect in his defense regarding his repayment was, he actually told the judge the following: a. Prior to the loan, I paid him weekly, a set amount by bank transfer and £ 50 cash in hand. b. During the period of his repayment, I continued to pay him this fixed amount by Bank transfer but kept the Cash in hand. he claimed that his repayment was that I kept the cash in hand part. c. when the Judge asked him during the hearing if he kept a record, he said No - and that he thought that i was keeping a record. d. in any event, i was able to prove that during the loan repayment period, i did not make any bank transfers as he claimed but paid him up front in cash as i was having to travel abroad extensively and frequently during that time and i was able to prove this with the immigration stamps on my passports and cash withdrawals. e. his counter claim was for specific work he said he carried out in 2010 and i was able to prove that he carried out this work in 2008 and that he had been paid. i believe i have been able to disprove his every comment - So i am now waiting for the 18th To date - i have not received any schedules from him. If i do receive anything now, will these be considered? regards Wrecked.

Hi Mike Thanks so much for your fast response.May be its my own paranoia. I'll do as you suggest and write a fresh witness statement taking events of the recent hearing into account. All the best/Wrecked.

Hi Mike No - only that the hearing will be for 3 hours and he recommended that the Defendant put together a schedule of repayment. thanks/Wrecked

Hi Mike Thanks for your fast reply. Yes i agree - it does depend on the content of the admission. here it is verbatum Judge to Defendant : did you keep a record of your repayments reply : No I did not. I thought he did. (He... being me) Thats pretty clear. So whats the issue?? (I thought) Thats why i was so perplexed as to why it had to be adjourned. I even pleaded that we continue, and to forget about the witnesses. But the Judge would not have it. He then told/advised the Defendant to put a schedule of repayment together. So... how can he put a schedule of repayment together if he has no record? I know you guys are busy helping other people and this is dragging on. i want to move on and be ready for the hearing. Can you suggest how I should tackle this? He admitted he did not keep a record. then he went on further to say that he thought I did. on my side - there was no repayment and i therefore certainly did not keep a record of the repayment. Did the Judge do this to cut to the chase so he can pick it up at the next hearing? i guess the judge had no alternative but to adjourn the case as he admitted that he had not read everything. what if a different Judge hears this case when it comes up next? i believe this is my chance and it all depends on how i use this admission - and thats why i am asking if you experts can phrase/summarise my position this for me. many thanks/Wrecked.

Hi Mike thanks for yr message. The defendant made an admission in court - and it must be recorded somewhere - i phoned the court and they said i can apply for a transcript (but I have to pay for it). I agree with you and of course thats clear - but surely as he made this admission, it must be pretty clear now. am I wrong? Regards Wrecked

hi Uncle B - thanks i guess thats the case here. Hi Mike - no i have not made any approaches to the Defendant. I looked up the Tomlin order which you pointed out. I dont think he would be agreeable to any kind of settlement and I certainly would not enter into any agreement with him as i know he will not honour anything. The only way i can get any repayment from him is if i get judgement. Now that he had personally and directly told the Judge he did not keep a record and thought that i did......... when the hearing is heard - surely this admission will be taken into account - Or am i totally incorrect? All the best Wrecked

Hi Andy, Hi Mike The hearing took place but was adjourned as only one of my witnesses could attend. (BTW there were genuine reasons why the others could not attend) and a new date will be given to me. But i am now even MORE UNCLEAR as to how to proceed because the following happened: a. the Judge admitted that he had not read all the witness statements fully as there were a lot of documents. b. he asked a few questions to the Defendant on who did his PAYE and NI etc. and after a bunch of questions from the Judge the Defendant finally admitted that he was/is self employed and i paid him for work he carried out c. Judge asked Defendant if he kept a record of his repayments to me and the Defendant said "no " - he then went on to say that he thought that i had kept the records. d. Judge then asked him to put a repayment schedule together. Its quite incredible that with the admissions the Defendant made as outlined above, the Judge should have thrown out the defense as clearly the Defendant cannot prove that he repaid the loan. (it does not really matter about the witnesses) This is why I say that the Defendant is extremely lucky. He's now going to come back with some made up repayment schedule which he cannot substantiate. He has already admitted to the Judge that - he did not keep a record..... and he said he "thought" I did. The other issue is, in his statement, he's put in so much waffle and i can prove that they are all waffle as he got dates and other facts wrong. But there was no evidence what so ever on the repayment. just a statement that he had repaid it. I asked the Judge to continue with the hearing and finish it but he said as he had not read everything he will adjourn the case. I said that there really was no need to adjourn as the Defendant had already admitted that he did not keep a record ...etc. but i could not swing it. I am really interested to hear your comments on this please. many thanks Wrecked.

HI Andy many thanks for yr fast reply. i hv written to court and Defendant. i will phone court on Monday. i dont want to apply to get permission to change the value of this claim. So I think it better to issue a separate claim. Then its nice and clean. I will keep u up to speed. thanks again /Wrecked.

Hi Andy yes thanks very much. He's put in stuff which are untrue. I want to show/highlight these lies and the only way is with a couple of new witness statements i will write to the court and to him and say that i like to add a couple of witness statements.I guess he would refuse, and i dont think i will hear from the Court in time. I think it likely that i would not hear from the other side or the court so i could try my hand and submit them 7 days before the hearing date. There is one more issue Andy - i think you can help me with this. In checking my files and bank statements i realised that he owes me some more money which he borrowed on a different date. its more recent and i cannot believe my own stupidity. My question is can i serve him a second writ for this ... as a separate case? If I can do this, should i do it now, or wait for the outcome of this? thanks Andy Wrecked.

HI Andy i forgot to ask - can i produce any additional W/S at the time of the hearing? thanks/Wrecked

HI Andy thanks for yr reply. So basically, 1. i dont submit any further documentation, not even a a reply to his Witness statement,. 2. wait till the hearing and put my points across. 3. do I do this in the form of another statement or, 4. just hv my points/reply prepared and then hand over to the judge and the other side? 5. or will it be a situation where i have to speak, cross examine etc.? ... 6. or just listen to the Judge who would decide based on these statements already submitted. thanks/Wrecked.

Hi Andy, Mike, The deadline for swapping docs. passed on 25 Oct. But in his statement he made some claims which are untrue. I will need to submit additional witness statements to substantiate these claims. Is it possible to submit these before 7 days from the date of the hearing as they are in response to his witness statement? These are relevant as it will show very well that he has been lying about most things in his defense. All the best/Wrecked.

Hi I am currently trying to go through the statement from the other side. I will get back to you All the documents were mixed up as they were not bound properly. its been really difficult to correlate the exhibits with the title sheets. Should he not have taken care to ensure they were all in order? Theres a whole bunch of detail which are not really related to whether there has been deductions in the repayment of the loan....as was the main clause in his defense will be back in touch tmrw all the best/Wrecked.

HI Mike thank you - there are no documentation to substantiate any agreement. regards/Wrecked.

HI Andy Thanks for your message. Yes good point - i did not think of that. Its my paranoia. I am really concerned that the other side is reading this thread. I see that its had over 2400 reads. I am preparing the WS - its not completed yet, but should be by tonight or tmrw morning. I can now prove beyond any doubt that no repayment has been made to my loan nor did i deduct any amount or withheld any amount from any money due. But where do i stand with the counter claim? as there is nothing on my side. When there was no work - there was no reason to hire his services so there would be no payment. he worked, i paid..... thats basically is it. all the best/Wrecked.

Hi Mike I am pretty much ready now and if you dont mind i will send a short PM later today and you can see what you think thanks wrecked

Hi Mike i dont think he is going to send me anything. My statements are taking time to come but i shall have nearly all of them by Friday. Thanks Mike All the best/wrecked