Just a quick update...DG Solicitors (HSBC in house) have now given in and are trying to source the documents I requested...I shall sit tight and see what develops.

Hi all, Still no cca from FD and have been receiving threatening stuff from Metropolitan. Just sent them the usual letters back. They have now passed it onto solicitors who "may" take legal action. Just wanted to check that my position is still the same legally as it is sometime since all this started and they are just posturing. Do I need to provide a signature to receive a true copy of my agreement?? Can I defend in court the fact that they haven't supplied me with an agreement due to me not providing a signature?? Should I still be refusing payment until they supply me with a true copy of the agreement?? What reply letter should I send to FDs in house solicitors?? Am quite happy to continue the fight, but like I said was checking the current legal position.

Quick update. Sent letter from this link: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?426-A-letter-when-the-account-has-been-passed-to-another-debt-collection-agency Received a surprising reply apologising for wasting my time and saying they were putting the account on hold, especially as I had an ongoing complaint with the Ombudsman. Hopefully this will encourage others to take up the fight.

As always thanks BB that is exactly what I am looking for. Now I'll leave you alone to enjoy your weekend, thanks again.

Hi BB, Yes I have sent all the CCA letters and placed the account in dispute with FD. This letter I received today is the first from a DCA so I thought I should reply along these lines.. Dear Sirs, Account No: XXXXXXXX I write with reference to the above numbered account. I would like to point out that this account is formally in dispute with **Original Creditor ** and has been since they failed to acknowledge my CCA Request (in line with s.88 CCA1974) which was sent on / xx / 2009. As you are no doubt aware, your continual harassment not only breaches the Consumer Credit Act (1974), but also the Data Protection Act (1998), the Consumer Protection From Unfair Trading Regulations (2008) and the Office Of Fair Trading's debt collection guidelines. Being that **Original Creditor ** are now in default of my CCA Request (and OFT Debt Collection Guidelines), I consider this account to be in serious dispute, especially due to the fact that whilst the CCA Request remains in default (outstanding), enforcement action is not permitted in line with s.127 (CCA1974). Consequently, any legal action you pursue will not only be fully and vigorously defended, it will also be averred as both unlawful and vexatious. As such I respectfully suggest that this account is returned to **Original Creditor ** for immediate resolution prior to my seeking legal advice; due to the fact you cannot lawfully pursue any enforcement activities as the account was already in dispute at the time you became involved. If you decide to ignore my dispute and attempt enforcement, I will initiate legal action and file reports with the appropriate authorities including, but not limited to, Trading Standards, Office of Fair Trading, Information Commissioners Office, Financial Ombudsman Service and possible court action. I hope that this will not be necessary and an acceptable solution can be accomplished. I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter and look forward to hearing from you in due course. Yours faithfully Maybe adding the lines of preventing a doorstep visit. This template letter is a couple of years old though and I know there have been various rulings which may or may not affect the content.

Right today have received letter from DCA requesting full payment. Can anyone point me in the direction of a current and up to date reply letter that tells them "Oi chaps you still haven't provided a CCA so please refer this back to the OC"

Ok appealed to Ombudsman. Received an e mail from First Direct the other day asking me to call them. Not likely I thought so I replied to e mail basically setting out my CCA request etc and that I will only deal with them in writing. Received a reply back saying they could not answer me as my e mail had not been received through official sources. Did make me laugh and next time they e mail me that will be my response. Received another Final Demand from FD this morning this time for full amount. Usual stuff, going to ignore.

Received a reply from the FO this morning regarding my appealing their decision. I had used the ICO information and the fact I was worried about there being the chance of a reconstituted agreement where none exists. Also remember I wrote to them (the OC) with a letter containing a different signature and they had replied. Now it appears the adjudicator that made the original decision, reviewed it herself and decided she was right. You couldn't make it up. She writes. "I should like to take this opportunity to explain that the FOS operates outside of the law and we consider complaints based on what is 'fair and reasonable'. Although we do pay due regard to legal principles, we are an alternative forum to the courts and do not make our decisions based on legal principles alone. While I appreciate you consider that there is no legal requirement for a consumer to provide a signature for a CCA request - this does not mean that the business is acting unreasonably by requesting you to provide one. As previously explained, this matter relates to the business' exercise of its commercial judgement which is outside our remit. The FOS does not have the requisite jurisdiction to request that the business alter its standard practice in this regard. You have indicated that you are not willing to provide a signature because it could be used to construct a credit agreement where none exists; however, I do not consider this is likely under the circumstances as the business is simply asking that your written request be signed by yourself in the normal letter writing convention. I believe that the business is acting in the best interests of its consumers by ensuring that no confidential information is sent out to anyone that it cannot formally identify. Because of this I have to tell you that I am unable to recommend that your complaint should be upheld." I have till March 9th to appeal to an actual ombudsman. The points I take out are as follows; 1) If it outside their remit then fair enough just say that but they should not be making a judgement in anyones favour. Just say it is outside our remit and they can't help me. 2) I have already proven that the need for a signature for security reasons is nonsense as I signed a letter altering my signature and they replied. So basically I could get a chimp to sign my CCA request and according to the FOS and FD that's fine. 3) If they are unsure of my identity and need a signature to prove my identity why are they still sending me letters and statements to my address without the need for a signature. The same address I want the CCA sent to?? 4) They are ignoring the ICOs guidelines. 5) Surely someone else should have reviewed this adjudicators decision not her reviewing her own. My instinct is to take it to appeal with an Ombudsman. Your thoughts please??

Thanks very much for all your help BB it is much appreciated:thumb:

Thanks for your replies. Yes I did mention the fact that they were sending statements etc to my address. I'm thinking of writing back and saying that nowhere in the Consumer Credit Act does it say that a signature is required for a CCA request so aren't the FOS going against the law which governs these agreements. BB what was the Information Commissioners finding and statement on signatures??

So according to the FOS you have to supply a signature?? Isn't this going against the Consumer Credit Act itself or whatever rules are in place??

Interesting development. Today I received a reply to my complaint to the FOS re FDs insistence on a signature.. It goes as follows (ignoring the inane drivel) Having reviewed matters, I consider that the business has not acted unreasonably by asking that your written request be confirmed with your signature. Signatures are required to prevent third parties from writing to the business with instructions that could potentially be detrimental to the relevant account holder. I therefore consider this matter relates to the business' exercise of its own discretion and this Service does not normally become involved in disputes concerning a business' commercial judgement, and i have seen nothing to do so on this occasion. I note that you have raised an issue with regard to you having 'tested' the business' procedures by writing with a deliberately altered signature to see what would happen. I would like to take this opportunity to explain that under the terms and conditions of the account, the business would or would not be in a position to provide information without your signature, depending on the nature of the information being sent. Because of this, I have to tell you that I am unable to recommend that your complaint should be upheld. I appreciate that this is likely to come as a disappointment to you. I know that this is not the outcome you were hoping for, but i hope that my explanation has been helpful in setting out clearly why I have taken this view. However if you disagree with how I have reached my conclusions, please write to me by 1 March 2011 - setting out your reasons and including any evidence you have not already provided and that you think is important to your case.

Thanks for your help I will let them be. Will get the complaints letters off tomorrow.

Is the letter I posted at 11:36 today the next step??

Yes sent them that and an account in dispute letter. All returned saying as there was no signature they could not reply.

Yes i stopped making the payments as you suggested. I have still received no CCA from them.

£131.11

I have found this letter on another thread. Dear Sir, I wrote to you in early December 2010 with a CCA request, enclosing the statutory payment as required. I note the letter was signed for by yourselves the following day. As I am sure you are aware under The Consumer Credit Act 1974 Section 78 (1) states: 78 Duty to give information to debtor under running-account credit agreement. (1)The creditor under a regulated agreement for running-account credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of £1, shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,— (a)the state of the account, and (b)the amount, if any currently payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor, and ©the amounts and due dates of any payments which, if the debtor does not draw further on the account, will later become payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor. The same section, subsection 6 states: (6)If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)— (a)he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement; To date I have received no reply whatsoever to my CCA request, and so I challenge the validity of your entitlement to place the account into default, as you did on 10 January 2011, as until such time as a copy of my agreement is received you are not lawfully entitled to take any further enforcement action on this account whatsoever. I would like you also to take note therefore that this letter serves as an additional formal request under the Consumer Protection From Unfair Trading Regulations (CPUTR), 2008 for written confirmation as to whether MBNA currently hold or have ever held a properly executed Consumer Credit Agreement in their possession pertaining to myself and if not, to kindly confirm so in writing. If you do hold such an agreement it should be sent to me, along with the other relevant documents mentioned, in response to this letter in order to comply with my original request made in early December. In your Default Notice served under Section 87(1) of the CCA 1974 dated 10 January 2011 you state I have to pay all the arrears by 31.1.11 to remedy this breach. Bearing in mind the situation as it currently stands and outlined in detail above, I would respectfully suggest that this comment already places you in clear breach of CPUTR 2008 Part Two Regulation 5(1) and 5(2), even if the default notice had been lawfully served. I trust therefore that no further action will be taken until such time as the issues raised in this letter are resolved. I look forward to your reply within 14 days of the date of this letter. Yours faithfully. Should I send an amended version of this??

It is from First Direct: It states: 8 February 2011 DEFAULT NOTICE SERVED UNDER SECTION 87(!) OF THE CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974 Dear Sir, IMPORTANT YOU SHOULD READ THIS CAREFULLY Under Account Number: And dated 27th March 1996 Customers full name(s) and address (es) Mr------------------ --------------------- --------------------- -----------. We refer to the above agreement, which you have entered into with us. you have breached the term and condition 7 of the agreement in that you have failed to make the minimum payments. Action required: To remedy the breach you must pay us a total of £---.-- before 26 February 2011. IF THE ACTION REQUIRED BY THIS NOTICE IS TAKEN BEFORE THE DATE SHOWN NO FURTHER ENFORCEMENT ACTION WILL BE TAKEN IN RESPECT OF THE BREACH. IF YOU DO NOT TAKE THE ACTION REQUIRED BY THIS NOTICE BEFORE THE DATE SHOWN THEN THE FURTHER ACTION SET OUT BELOW MAY BE TAKEN AGAINST YOU. FURTHER ACTION: If you do not take the action shown above we shall demand repayment of all sums owed under the agreement, including early repayment of all sums not yet due, and take whatever steps are reasonably necessary to recover these sums. These sums are: Total amount owed under the agreement, including interest and charges, as at the date shown £----.-- IF YOU HAVE DIFFICULTY IN PAYING ANY SUM OWING UNDER THE AGREEMENT OR TAKING ANY OTHER ACTION REQUIRED V=BY THIS NOTICE YOU CAN APPLY TO THE COURT WHICH MAY MAKE AN ORDER ALLOWING YOU OR ANY SURETY MORE TIME. IF YOU ARE NOT SURE WHAT TO DO, YOU SHOULD GET HELP AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. FOR EXAMPLE YOU SHOULD CONTACT A SOLICITOR, YOUR LOCAL TRADING STANDARDS DEPARTMENT OR YOUR NEAREST CITIZENS ADVICE BUREAU. This notice should include a copy of the current Office of Fair Trading Information Sheet on default. this contains important information about your rights and where to go for support and advice. if it not included you should contact us to get one.

General Update: Reported FD to Ombudsman received reply they are investigating. Stopped payments as suggested but today received a default letter saying I need to bring payments up to date by 26th Feb to avoid further action. Is there another letter I should send in reply to the default or just sit tight until they pass the debt on??

Quick update...reply from Consumer direct they are reporting FD to trading standards and advise me to report them to the FOS.

Ollie I firmly expect to get the same reply i.e we cannot answer the points you raise until you have signed the letter. That's why I wanted to report them to a higher authority. I'm waiting for a reply from Consumer Direct before I send the letter to FD. As for your calls I'm sure that is harassment and you should report them.

oops double post already

After weeks of trying to get advice I get it in less than an hour on here. Have e mailed a complaint to Consumer Direct re requesting signatures and will send letter as advised. I love this site already. Thank you very much BB

Thanks very much for that that is a great help. I still make regular monthly payments on the card...should I now stop these??