Hello and sorry to gatecrash this thread, but I am interested in why the invalid DN and 'no CCA exists' (in my case confirmed by MBNA in SAR request) is worthless nowadays. I have read other threads in the past, for both MBNA and other creditors and DCA's (hence not familiar with most recent cases) and I am in a position where I too need to be able to negotiate with DCA re: former MBNA debt, in terms of a F&F settlement. I am on IB with no other income, and I was hoping that the invalid DN and no CCA would be sufficient grounds to negotiate a good settlement figure. Is there a case I need to look at to be more familiar with the way things have changed over the past 6 to 12 months? Thanks, Mistaken

Hi, Of their own disclosure list, the respondent excluded 3, and added another 10 (previously undisclosed) and I would like the original 3 added back into the bundle and to add an additional 2 which I accidently omited (and failed to disclose as they were filed away in envelopes and I forgot about them due to time pressure of preparing bundle). I hope this information helps. thanks

Hi, I do have another thread for my ET case but I have created this one to try to catch the eye of anyone with ET and court bundle experience who may be able to help. I am representing myself, and I feel confident enough to do so but need some advice. I didn’t want to have the expense and visits to a solicitor (I am disabled and house bound much of the time), however I know that I do need some advice on my witness statement etc so I am arranging to see one in the middle of the week, but in the meantime I wondered if anyone could help me with the bundle questions which I have? As background to these questions - I requested a postponement to the court (via a written formal request) to change the day for exchanging list of docs, document bundle and witness statements as it was physically impossible for me to meet with the deadlines (imposed by the court order) due to my disability. This request to the court was refused by the judge. I missed the date for exchange of documents, and received the ‘refusal to postpone’ response from the court 2 days prior to the order date for bundle creation. I spoke with a solicitor who advised that I should contact the respondent to request a short delay. The respondent refused (with threat of a strike out if I didn't meet with the ordered date) but ‘allowed’ me to present my list of docs and copies of on the actual day ordered for the bundle creation. I furnished them with the documents on the 'ordered' date for the bundle to be exchanged, since then: 1. They added new documents to their ‘list of documents’ on the date of ‘bundle creation’, after receiving my full document list and copies of docs. They sent me the actual copy of their documents the day after the 'bundle date', which included new docuemnts not previously declared. i.e. they listed them to me after the 'bundle date' which of course means that these were added only after viewing my documents to be enclosed into the bundle. 2. They also removed documents from their list, which I intended to rely upon for evidence. 3. They have included a ‘without prejudice letter’ (from my solicitor appointed at the time - there was a compromise agreement situation which failed) 4. I have also realised I missed out some critical evidence from the bundle. Questions: 1. In reference to the docs they have added docs without letting me know, would this put me in a good position to ask them to add documents to the bundle? My own and the copies they removed from their list? Really the question is - how do I get docs added to the bundle after the 'ordered bundle date'. I would like to have them added within the next few days, to ensure there is sufficient time to allow reference to them in the witness statements. 2. Can I insist the docs which are ‘without prejudiced’ are removed? 3. Should the respondent present me with a copy of the bundle, so that I am able to reference the relevant document numbers in my witness statement? Any help however small would be really appreciated thanks MisTaken

Anyone out there able to help with the above post?

Hi, Thanks for all of the help, I took the advice on board and requested a postponement of (1) the orders (date for doc list/exchange of docs/witness statement) and (2) the hearing, formally by letter on 22nd February. Yesterday March 7th I received the response, no comment on the orders and a refusal to change the date/time of the hearing. The respondent has requested a copy of all of my documents within the next few days (as per the order) and we are frantically trying to gather all of the evidence, list it and compile into a bundle to deliver to the respondent, who has offered to prepare the bundle. I have already missed the date of exchanging document lists. I am rather confused about some of the requirements and wondered if anyone can help. 1. In regards to documents between my solicitor and I, when the compromise agreement was ongoing (it was not signed, and to save money I am now representing myself) I know that these are not required to be presented as evidence but I wondered if I am able to reference them in my witness statement and if so should they be included in to the bundle even though they are privileged? 2. In reference to the documents included into the bundle, the respondent has referenced an ET case in their ET3, but has not specified the 'proceedings transcript' to be included as evidence. I thought that if I was to reference an ET case (and precedent EAT) cases in my witness statement then the 'proceedings transcripts' should be included in the evidence. Please can somebody advise if I am getting this completely wrong. Can or should I reference the other cases in my witness statements and should these cases be within the document bundle? thanks

Elche, Also thanks to you, I have taken your advice on board, and rewritten my letter. All sent of to ET. thanks

Thanks SarEl, Just another quick question..... On the order it states 'joint bundle' to be prepared by xx/xx/xx, and further down the order, a separate paragraph for 'any person wishing to give evidence.....shall prepare a written statement....' and states these should be exchanged between the parties 2 weeks after the bundle preparation. Is it possible the dates vary depending on the ET location? oo sorry, and another one (ish)....... There is a witness employed by the respondent, who the respondent will not call, (no I haven't asked but will the respondent call a witness employed by them in my favour?). I would like to gather some evidence and I am unsure of the best way to do this. I have read (i know damn books and wanna be lawyers!) that I should request the tribunal call this witness, and then I would be able to ask questions at the hearing. Is this the way to go, or could I request for copies of any notes/emails this person has made in regards to my telephone call with her? There must be notes as further action was taken by respondent after this telephone call with the 'witness'.

Hi HB, Thanks for your advice, and I have called the ET office who have explained a letter will suffice to explain why I am unable to meet the deadline. This letter is almost finished, and I am about to send (after my partner has checked it thoroughly for the umpteenth time!). I think I was reading too much into the formal procedures of 'vary' and 'set aside', I had started the letter, I just wondered if it needed to be formally headed etc. In regards to the bundle, I created another thread which has been merged with this one. This is a separate question in regards to what is 'the norm' in regards to who is responsible for the joint bundle, in light that communication between I and the respondent has broken down beyond repair! I know this isn't good in the ET's eyes, but I am unsure as what to do. I would prefer to prepare the bundle myself, to ensure it contains all that it should, however due to my illness it would be most beneficial if the employer were to prepare the bundle, and if they do, with having more time to review my evidence, more of a chance for settlement from them. (Have to think postively!! 8)) Thanks Mistaken

hi SarEl, Thanks for your response, the order states 'the parties shall no later than ......prepare a joint bundle of documents'. My concerns are that to liaise with the employer will be extremely stressful, taking away precious time I need to prepare my witness statement etc. They are most uncooperative at all times which is why I asked my question to see if somebody could explain the 'normal procedure', if there is one. Is the normal procedure that I send my docs to the respondent and they compile the bundle? If so, how can I be sure that all relevant documents are included? (I assume they are required to put all docs on the disclosure list into the bundle? Also, in regards to the various copies of bundles, for the ET (4 copies) can these be highlighted etc or should they be plain copies of documents? thansk Mistaken

Returning to my original post, can anyone advise me the difference between a 'vary' or a 'set aside', in the context of an order from the court which details that documents need to be listed to the respondent on xx date. I am unable to make xx date due to disability and need to request a postponement to this date. The order states, ‘if the order was made in the absence of the parties either may apply to the Tribunal to vary or set aside the order, but must do so before the period for compliance with the order has expired.’ I am concerned as I only have a couple of days in which to apply for this and I am hoping that somebody has a skeleton document somewhere which may help me. thanks

I just wanted to explain that I think there has been some confusion as to the employment of solicitors by me..... I think there has been a bit of confusing re my solicitor, at no time has a solicitor 'walked away' from my case. Initially the solicitor was liasing with the employer in terms of a CA. The CA was suggested by my solicitor at the time. The employer ignored all of the case law and precedent cases my solicitor quoted. My solicitor tried to negotiate with them many times, with lots of letters and back forth, detailing the law (hence the huge solicitors bill). He even quoted to me that the employer has 'no idea of the law' but the employer continued to ignore his statements and refuse to budge from their initial offer, i.e. with no offer of negotiation. The employer thought (as they always have) that I will give in to their bullying. If I was wrong I would, but I do have a strong case, with evidence. I, several times on the advice of the solicitor, in order to resolve and conclude my employment as quickly as possible lowered the figures I would deem acceptable as part of the terms of the CA - which were much lower than the ET is for. The employer refused. The solicitor at the time had more pressing cases on his books than to reiterate the same facts to the employer in each letter was a complete waste of his time and my money. He is actually a well regarded and well known solicitor. So to save me money (and of course to save his own time-which I fully understand, as trying to negotiate with my employer is impossible!) suggested I negotiate with the employer on the terms of the CA directly and when the terms were agreed then he would sort out the CA. The employer did not agree to any terms, and as such dismissed me, concluding my employment. Even then, they made even more mistakes in my dismissal, contributing to a higher claim at the ET. When the employment was concluded I then took advice in regards to submitting an ET claim. I had the choice to pay by the hour, which would be expensive again due to the number of hours required, or to enter a no-win-no-fee agreement. As stated earlier, if I took the no-win-no-fee option and won the case I would need to pay the solicitor his cut immediately, and I have no doubt that even if I win the employer will appeal so as not to pay the money. This was a 2nd and different solicitor, who specialised in the area of employment law which is for the highest monetary value part of my ET claim. He has a high success rate and was confident to take the case on. The only reasons I do not have a solicitor at the moment is that I am low in funds, and I thought that I would be able to represent myself. It is my choice that I am not currently legally represented.

I have been ordered by the ET to prepare a 'joint bundle' of documents to be used as evidence in my ET but I have a major problem in that the communication between myself and the employer has broken down beyond repair, hence the need for me to take them to an employment tribunal. My employer has not been cooperative over the past couple of years, and each letter or communication I receive from the HR department causes me major stress and impairs my health so that I am prone to relapses in my illness. I am not being oversensitive in the slightest, I am of a strong character but I am in despair with their previous correspondence in that they ignore all that I ask or say and just undermine me in believing only their own statements are right even when they are clearly wrong (with evidence to support this too!). Is it possible for me to ask the ET if I can submit a separate bundle? I have read that the ET are keen to have all of the information in one bundle and frown upon lack of communication between the claimant and the respondent, but in my case it really has broken down to a point where I really do not wish to speak to HR. I have not approached the employer yet, as I really do not wish to share the responsibility of a joint bundle and wish to know my options before I really have to approach them. thanks THREAD MERGED AT THIS POINT

thanks, details below - I am having problems with quoting your responses so apologies for what looks a bit messy below, I have tried to respond to your comments. The problem I also have is that 2 weeks to respond to the documents when supplied by the employer is not enough time for me to prepare to present as evidence. I have requested 2 subject requests to them over the past few years (for something else) and they are terrible in that they refuse to provide documents which I know exist and which are fully covered under the DPA. I know that there will be a bit of back-and-forth in trying to retrieve documents from them. If the SAR's aren't connected, then they are not relevant. The tribunal will take into acount the faliure to provide relevant documents. Yes the request is for documents relevant for my evidence. Are you able to explain what the difference is between a 'vary' and a 'set asdie' of the order? OO - you had to ask? OK. "vary" generally means that they they are willing to consider reprentations to change it; "set aside" means they won't consider it - it doesn't exist. But you are asking in a vacuum - I don't know anything about the case, so I am doing a best guess. The question for the 'set aside' is relevant to the order as described in my original post. The order from the court which states document list to be exchanged on xx, the documents to be exchanged on xx, and the witness statements to be exchanged on xx. I have been away from my home address for a couple of weeks, leaving at short notice. The order from the court arrived at my home address on Monday 14th Feb, 5 days after it was dated. I am still away from home, and my post for last week was forwarded to me today (I am at a friend house). I have opened the letter/order to discover the document list needs to be with the respondent on Wednesday of this week which is not possible as I am away recovering from a relapse in my illness (which is a common event) and without my documents in my possession. I understand from the comments on the order, as quoted in post 1, that I need to apply for a 'vary' or a 'set aside' to the order. I do not know what this means so I thought I would ask for advice on the forum in case somebody had already been through this experience. I have also spent a few thousand pounds with a solicitor in trying to negotiate a compromise agreement with them, Hmmm - i saw that coming! which I was unable to sign as they refused to provide me a copy of my contract of employment.And if it was a CA - why would that even be relevant? I was unable to sign a CA which states the I confirm I have not breached any clause in my contract of employment, if I am not in possession of a up to date copy of my contract. Knowing the employer can not be trusted (historical reasons), I was not prepared to sign such an agreement. They were also trying to stitch me up completely as to the money aspect - hence the ET claim. My solicitor at the time realised the employer would not budge from their insulting offer and suggested, in order to save me money I negotiate with them myself - as they were just ignoring his requests for a compromise. My original solicitor realised they would not back down from their unreasonable offer within the CA, and so I was given no choice other than to walk away from the CA. I was unable to sign as I could not commit to the clauses. This means that I do not have the funds to pay for a solicitor to represent me. I did have one to assist the completion of the ET1 and he advised all claims were realistic, i.e. I do have a case. Sorry. I am jaundiced. Of course he did. You were paying. Where is he now?? I was not in a position to give him 35% of any monies won in the tribunal, due to the facts that if I won the case and I was required to pay him immediately. From past experience with my employer, I know my employer is stubborn just for the sake of it and would appeal if I were to win, and as such I would be in indebted to the solicitor without receiving any funds from the employer. He was more than willing to take the case on, I was unable to due to lack of funds. thanks

Hi sarel, Thanks for your advice. The main reason for me not presenting the evidence is because I need to attain much of it from the respondent. Some of this will be through a DPA request, as well as a direct request. I haven't been able to request them yet to a relapse in my health. This is a problem in that it does take me a considerable amount of time to write letters with the help of carers. I am registered disabled, would this have any influence if if requested a few months delay in the collation of evidence? The problem I also have is that 2 weeks to respond to the documents when supplied by the employer is not enough time for me to prepare to present as evidence. I have requested 2 subject requests to them over the past few years (for something else) and they are terrible in that they refuse to provide documents which I know exist and which are fully covered under the DPA. I know that there will be a bit of back-and-forth in trying to retrieve documents from them. Are you able to explain what the difference is between a 'vary' and a 'set aside' of the order? I have also spent a few thousand pounds with a solicitor in trying to negotiate a compromise agreement with them, which I was unable to sign as they refused to provide me a copy of my contract of employment. I was unable to sign as I could not commit to the clauses. This means that I do not have the funds to pay for a solicitor to represent me. I did have one to assist the completion of the ET1 and he advised all claims were realistic, i.e. I do have a case. thanks

I am taking my employer to employment tribunal, I have submitted ET1 and they have responded with ET3. I have received an order from the court in regards to dates for document disclosure and exchange, and exchange of witness statements. I am disabled, and in need of more time than the ET has allocated for retrieving, documenting and presenting documents as part of my evidence bundle. (I have been in receipt of the ET3 for 3 weeks, and have been preparing my ‘request for specific documents’ but have has a relapse in health which has delayed this request to the ex-employer). I have previously tried to explain my limitations in a previous letter to the court, but I do not feel I fully explained my disability and how it prevents me from preparing my case in a reasonable time. In order to ask for a delay to the dates allocated for this case I’d like to ask for some advice. The order states, ‘if the order was made in the absence of the parties either may apply to the Tribunal to vary or set aside the order, but must do so before the period for compliance with the order has expired.’ I am concerned as I only have a couple of days in which to apply for this. I do have a copy of an excellent ET claims book, tactics and precedents but this doesn’t really explain what a ‘vary’ or a ‘set aside’ is. Can anybody explain the difference in these to me? Is it reasonable request by me to request a delay in listing/exchanging documents for a couple of months to ensure that I am able to compile a substantial defense bundle? How do I go about this? Is there an example document on the internet anywhere which I could use as a skeleton? Thanks Mistaken

Hi Planner, Thanks for your advice. Yes I see what you mean. We assumed that as an essential item it should be tested by the landlord (letting agent) to ensure it was in a working condition before letting the property. Thanks for the info. Mis-T

I started to read this thread and at first I thought my boyfriend had a secret account!! My boyfriend and I are in a similar situation, our inventory was severely wrong, and it has taken us 6 weeks of aggravation with the lettings agent to try to get things cleaned and fixed. All we have asked for is that the property is in a clean and habitable state (i.e. the appliances work). We have been polite and professional for the past 6 weeks - well until today when I did shout at the lettings manager as he refused to answer a direct question for the umpteenth time! - when he was here removing a faulty electrical item which an employee of the letting agency broke, but for which we have to but a replacement!!??!! We have asked for the landlords contact details which they have refused to provide, however we do have the address and are seriously considering contacting them directly as we do not believe out lettings agent have been honest with them. We think, as you correctly think also, a property should have been left in a clean state when the previous tenant moved out. It wasn't. I have never complained about the things that I can clean easily (cupboard fronts, washing floors etc), but other things for example the oven had not been cleaned since it was fitted 18 months ago - then I don't expect to clean the oven completely on day 1 of moving in! I do wish you luck, and I agree with steve_m to get as much written down as possible. Also be sure to take lots of pictures of the faults! We are preparing a collation for the landlord, just to confirm what the lettings agency has told them!

I have a small problem with the letting agency with whom I have recently signed a 6 month agreement. The property was uninhabitable when I picked up the keys, the inventory they gave was vastly different to the actual state of the property. For some of the immediate faults, I contacted them the same day, for the inventory issues I returned this detailing at least 20-30 inconsistencies with their original version within the 7 days as required. For the past 5.5 weeks I have needed to be at the property on 11 separate occasions to let the maintenance team into the property to either clean or repair items which were not fit for purpose from the first day of the tenancy. I have been extremely patient with them, however 2 weeks ago I raised a formal complaint with the lettings agency manager requesting the tenancy agreement be changed by 14 days, or a refund is made for the said 14 days I was unable to inhabit the property. So far they have refused to comment on the matter, and have arranged a meeting next week to let me know their decision. My main question for the forum is regarding smoke alarms in the property. Should the smoke alarms be in a working state when the tenancy starts? There are 2 mains alarms fitted, which were referenced in the inventory as ‘fitted but not tested’. I tested these 5 days after receiving the keys, and notified them on day 7 when returning the inventory. It was fixed 3 working days later (5 actual days). The tenancy agreement states I must check them every week, and change the batteries when required. They are mains, so there are no batteries and it clearly states they should not be opened (unless by a trained professional). Am I within my rights to say to the landlord that the property was unsafe and therefore uninhabitable during this period? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Mis~T

Hi Sidewinder, Many thanks for your prompt response. To clarify, the CA states : "as a contractual payment in lieu of x weeks notice the sum of xx less PAYE deductions", however I do not see anything in my contract which states this payment is 'contractual' and so I need to ensure if it is in my contract. I have a few more comments below:

Hi, Although a new 'user' to this site, I have been reviewing sickness and holiday issues as part of an ongoing issue I have with my employer. Although my situation is slightly different, there is a case called ' Pereda v Madrid Movilidad SA' which I think kind of covers your situation. Although this is an ECJ case there are implications into UK also, however each employer may take a different view on this. This is referenced on many 'HR' pages, one of which quotes 'If the worker is not able to take annual leave due to sickness absence, the worker must be permitted to carry it forward to the next holiday year.' It may be worth your while having a look around the internet for this case and related articles. Have a look at a few different pages as they do explain it differently depending on the website. It does mean that some employers are reviewing their holiday policies and your company might be one of them. I hope this helps.

I have been viewing this site for a while, and feel rather guilty for asking a question before being able to contribute but here goes anyway. I am about to enter into a compromise agreement with my employer, who is terminating my contract of employment after a period of sickness where I have not received any salary for a long period of time. As part of this compromise agreement my solicitor asked if they were to make a payment in regards to ‘payment in lieu of notice’. My employer has quoted a monetary figure, which covers my notice period. There are two areas I am unsure about: 1. I was originally asking the question - is that this payment made to me, which I have been told is subject to PAYE, should have pension contributions taken from it? i.e. under normal circumstances out of my ‘salary’ I make a contribution and if I make a contribution then so does the employer. 2. In regards to the ‘notice period’ regarding benefits - · Should my medical insurance continue for the period up to the end of the notice period? · And should the holiday payments accrue beyond the ‘termination date’, to the end of the notice period date? Any advice is greatly appreciated. thanks PS I can't ask my solicitor any question at the moment, which is why I am on here.