Follow NeiP, he has just won and got his charges refunded from 1998. He suggests we go for it if we have the information. Check out with him first.

Pity Metro didn't do a little more research on this site before making statements like that!

Hi

 

 

The question is, is it worth telling Abbey that apart from these excessive charges that everything else in the garden is rosie, and this is a totally seperate issue from the usual day to day banking issues?

 

 

Good point

Early stages over, DPA letter all statements received, charges worked out, interest calculated and prelim letter requesting repayment sent. Had dreadful photocopy letter reply from Marc Winder Head of Complaints " one of my team will get back to you". Full response arrived today 3 weeks after which is the standard response with minor variations:

It's the basic letter many have received but I'll post it here for the new comers:

Dear Mr xxx

Thank you for your letter of xx May 2006. Please accept my apologies for the delay in receiving my response.

I am sorry we have given you cause to complain in relation to charges incurred on your Abbey Current Account xxxxxxxxxx.

I have carefully considered the points you have raised, namely that you feel the charges are contrary to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Regulations 1999 and are unlawful at common law. The fact remains however that the charges in question were prompted by payment requests against insufficient available funds. As such, they are valid and in line with our Terms and Conditions. Furthermore, having reviewed the history of your account, I can see this is not the first time you have incurred charges.

I note you say you are unhappy with the charges you have incurred over the last six years. If you felt at any time the charges were unfair or incorrect, then the matter should have been raised at that time.

We do not feel that Abbey’s charges are unfair under these regulations. When you opened the account with Abbey, you were provided with Terms and Conditions that detailed the charges that become applicable should you breach the terms of the account. Abbey is up front and transparent about all its banking charges as set out in the tariff of charges.

Abbey’s Current Account is good value and our charges compare fairly with other Banks. For most people, banking is free and they do not incur charges.

If the complaint escalates into a claim in the County Court, we will review each case individually, and if we feel that our relationship with our customer has broken down completely, we may decide to give notice to close the account under the Terms and Conditions. I accept that you did not set out to incur charges. Ultimately however, it is your responsibility to monitor your account and ensure there are sufficient funds in your

account at all times.

As such and given that we refunded £30.00 on x September 2005 £20.00 on xx February 2006 as a gesture of goodwill, I do not feel that a waiver of charges is justified. The charges in question therefore stand.

The Office of Fair Trading announcement was in relation to Credit Card default charges and not overdraft default charges or to other products, such as Bank Accounts. This means our Tariff of Charges continues to apply.

This is my final resolution letter. However, if you would like to discuss the content of this letter or have any new points you believe should be taken into account, and which may make a difference to the outcome of the investigation, please contact me within 14 days of this letter on the above number. If I do not hear from you by then, and you have not asked us to extend that deadline for any reason, I will file my papers accordingly.

Should you be dissatisfied with the outcome of our investigation, I would like to remind you that you can refer your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service. I enclose a booklet explaining how to take your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service, and should you wish to do so, there is a time limit of six months from the date of this letter.

As it states that this is their final resolution letter it doesn't look as though there's much point in making use of the offer to discuss any new points, but I'll be happy to take suggestions on that. Otherwise I think it's an LBA...any thoughts and advice greatly appreciated. Daft thing is though you always feel you are speacial and an individual - ( I must be a totally misguided kind of fellow!!!)

Quote from rayo1973 above:

"I have carefully considered the points you have raised, namely that you feel the charges unlawful. The fact remains however that the charges in question were prompted by payment requests against insufficient available funds. As such, they are valid and in line with our terms and conditions. Furthermore, having reviewed the history of your account, I can see this is not the first time you have incurred charges."

Interesting, I have just received the same letter but it reads " I have carefully considered the points your raised, namely that you feel the charges are contrary to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Regulations 1999 and are unlawful at common law"

The rest is the same as yours, but out of the £2000 odd they owe they also remind me of the £30 they refunded me in 2005 and the £20 in Feb this year ... how kind!

However, they go on to say should I have points I'd like to discuss I should contct them - I'm just wondering if I should phone or just send in the LBA. I'll start my own Abbey thread on my claim.

Did they provide you with older statements or was it estimated Neil?

Thank you Robertxc I agree, the spy bitwas a bit tongue in cheek - no offence meant to anyone. Everyone has something to input and as you say Eduin has input some good posts indeed.

Hallo Eduin, Your posts are most welcomed and your knowledge invaluable and I am pleased to hear you came here to get your bank charges back. I too work in the credit industry, the peripherals I admit, but I know enough about the industry. DCA's are a mixed bag, there are the conciencious hard working type who are on a mission each day, commission driven, morally bereft, and legally inept. I have been on both sides of the coin I mixed with the industry on the inside and I suffered at their hands when things turned sour - it was a hell I wouldn't want to repeat because believe me, if you haven't been exposed to them in your own circles then visit some of the companies out there mentioned here and individuals on this site who have been torn apart by sharp speaking collection agents. I was told by someone at Wescot that if I didn't pay a particular credit card debt that day in full ( Saturday) he would have the bailiff at my door on Monday - this was after some very heated telephone conversations. You will know the errors of his way and I had him temporarily removed from office - what would the little old lady up the road have done? That was just one of the many incidents I experienced personnaly and I could go on all day. There are also by contrast the more professional individuals who expose the rigiours of professionalism you so describe but they are a minority.

To assume that most might be spendthrifts and irresponsible would not be living in reality and will rightly generate a torrent of abuse from forum subscribers. It is an industry attitude which believes irresponsibility causes debt - alot of truth in that maybe but the parasites move in on the fallen saldy many and DCA's are, apart from providing a service, amongst that catagory.

I don't mean this thread to be personal it's just that if you are a DCA you are tipping your toe into deep water if you think people won't pounce on you after all the writings herein! Hope you get your charges back anyway and keep inputting it always helps someone.

Ted, this might not be the best of times to say this but as I'm on your thread it appears to me you could use this. I run a small business and some years ago joined the Federation of Small Business (FSB) It costs £75 a year (+-) and worth every penny. Membership gives you 24/7 Legal Help line and support if Inland Rev & VAT decide to give you a hard time, and also 18 months free banking with the Co-op Bank. This might help you get back to some normality where there are no charges for transactions at all. You pay for Overdrafts etc in the normal way and they have charged penalty fees, but I'm negotiating to have them returned as we speak! They are not a bad bank and you might find with the help of the FSB you could get yourself back on a sound footing. ( I am not on any kind of commission for recruiting FSB members by the way and I am not advertising I just believe for the small businessman they are a very cheap and very usueful support line). Talk to the Co-op and the FSB http://www.fsb.co.uk

You will get all your fees back as advised above keep faith in it all and keep posting.Hope this helps and I wish you luck.

Anyone think Eduin is a spy? Lets try to keep this thread as a help to people with DCA difficulties and not a poster for DCA morals please Eduin.

As you are already paying them, getting the original agreement won't help very much.

 

You should do a Data Protection Act enquiry (using the template in the Library) and make it very clear in the letter that you require a full statement of the account for the past 6 years. Explicitly state that this includes the account history preior to the sale of the debt to Cabot.

I have a debt of £900 which Cabot are/were chasing. They added their interest charges taking it over £1000. The debt was with Citifinancial and was made up of alot of charges. I have the DPA documents back from Cabot which have excluded the original contract and any Citifinancial statements or information. I have sent a dpa to Citifinancial.

Are Cabot responsible for the charges Citi made or what? There are conflicting suggestions as to who should be asked. I haven't paid off much from Cabot since they bought it but I did pay some and I know I can reclaim the interest they charged, however, other suggestions say CitiFinancial have to pay the charges back and I have to do a deal with Cabot? Any thoughts?

I posted a copy of the letter received from cabot on the Cabot threadhttp://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=8074&highlight=cabot

It could well be an IVA - an voluntary arrangement with your creditors, they tend to use this as a selling point but it comes with all kinds of problems. I would suggest discussing your situation with the ccca ( consumer credit counselling service)http://www.cccs.co.uk its a charity and will give very good advice for free about how to deal with your debts. Debt management companies tend to be profit driven also and to be honest you can do much of what they tell you yourself without tieing yourself up for 5 years. They are tempting for the unwary as it seems like an answer to everything. Don't be frightened by your debt - there are many many ears out here waiting to help. You just need to get the fear out of you and start organising yourself. You have made a start by going to a debt management company, but if you haven't signed anything yet Don't until you have explored the alternatives. You may well be able to resolve these debts easily without going into a Voluntary Arrangement.

With a careful bit of research alot of information about making arrangements with your creditors can be done by yourself and with the help of so many on this forum. The cccs is getting very good reviews from forum members who have got into a pickle and its free. Be wary of the Debt management companies. Ask, then ask again EXACTLY what it's going to cost you and for how long, how much they are going to get and when you know the answers ASK AGAIN! Come back here again and you'll be talked through the steps.

Actually, the more they pass it around the better your chances of doing a full and final deal if you can manage it. It just means the debt is getting old and the chances of collection are getting slimmer. Some DCA's can be quite nasty the older it gets because others have obviously got the run around before. Remember, if they have 'purchased' the debt from the original card supplier they pay between 7-12% of the debt value for the debt. You can make an offer to pay it off at a very reduced rate. You should be written to informing you that the debt has been purchased, but it might be worth calling them ask the question. Just make sure you leave an element of profit for them before giving them your story of inability to pay etc and that a friend is helping you clear debt blah blah.. or you can make an arrangement , even £1 per week/month for a period to clear it. As you have come to this site you probably have unlawful charges to recover, if that's the case then write to the collection agency stating that the debt is in dispute over chages, that way you will not be sued. Keep paying an arranged amount each month whilst following the forum FAQ's and steps to reclaim your charges from the original card holder. Search Debt collection agencies on the search button for more info.. good luck.

Edit Jan 07: Since posting this in June 06 I have learned a considerable amount more on dealing with the Robinson Way and Cabot and many other type of Debt Collection Agencies. A simple CCA request will solve most of your problems along with letters stopping them making phone calls under the Wireless & Telegraphy Act and Communications Act. Nobody has to put up with these companies non compliance anymore. For once in our lives the consumer now has the moral high ground, the law and the tools (thank you CAG) to put them where they belong. One day our actions putting them in their place might ( big might) make these companies act a little more professionally and within the law - we are getting there already but there's still a long way to go. Just like America - the cowboys have gone. Search the Cabot threads too, there's a lot going on there too and they are no different.

If this were me I'd go to another bank and do what Tinkerbell suggests, take your money out and pay it in to another. The Abbey are not noted for their business accumen on business accounts as it is and whilst I do not know how much is involved, if it were £100k you'd be hopping mad if you ran a business. Whether it's £100k or £100 three months is diabolical - get the hell out of there!

Unlawful, not illegal. It is not a criminal offence as such. This is not dangerous at all, it is putting something right which everyone has accepted as the cost for charges which the banks have imposed and got away with for years when they are not legally entitled to do it. - It's not allowed! First things first. Correct the unlawful act by getting the banks to abide by the laws of the land, then educate people to act responsibly thereafter, which comes back to your point. Of course people might get the wrong message, but then they have missed the point altogether. When you read through this forum you will realise that the banking world have brainwashed us all for so long when they have possies of lawyers advising them that to charge £32 to send you a letter for going O/D only costs them 50p. They are not allowed in law to make a profit from a penalty charge only from a service. Period! They can only charge for actual or liquidated loss so put the banks right and then do what we should all do and only use credit sensibly and in the knowledge that what we are being charged is legally being charged and not a profit machine for shareholders elsewhere. Nothing dangerous in that matey.

Actually this account closed in July 2003. Would it be prudent to charge the interest at the 1.873 per month for the period from the ' date of offence' to the date the account closed and then claim the 8% after that till now?

Received all statements for account having sent DPA SAR to Edinbrugh returned from Southend on Sea (old Universa office) "We consider charges are fair" blah blah

Charges £250 but calculated interest at the rate they charged me at the time which provides another £600. Will see what happens after the request for repayment arrives.

Seminole - you should be out in the sun!

What Cabot actually sent was as follows:

A letter confirming: the a\c was purchased from Citifinancial and the date. My personal details and a list of items.

It states " As part of the SAR we are required to supply the following information all of which has been enclosed.

a) Copies of all correspondence filed

b) Copies of any system letters that have been generated and sent to you ( me )

c) Copies of all comments noted on on our computer system

d) Details of payments received and the interest applied

e) Details of your personal details as held within our computer system

The data held on our computer system in relation to your account has been used only for the purpose of collections and reporting to the credit reference beaureux Experien, Equifax and Call Credit. Your address was sent to UK Changes for telematching service.

We have also enclosed a list of Cabot Financial Europe Ltd's approved abbreviations and explanatory notes but should there be terms for which you require further clarification please contact us. Ys...

In a) there is only a copy of my LBA

In b) Headed Specific and Unspecific Generic System Letters - this is just a copy of a computerised letter with all its' merge brackets addressed to no-one and with nothing pertaining to my case whatsoever, ie: it's not a copy of a letter sent. But each one, and there's quite a few someone has written " This is a representation of the original sent 1/8/04 " and a reference attached to each one.

In c) there is a printout showing all the apparent times they have contacted me and their comments on same and also a running calculation prompt which I assume is the system updating aging and interest. Periodically it states " Apply penalty interest"

In d) is a breakdown of the account dated by posting. the Tran Ref as they call it on that schedule periodically produces an insert called PENIN ( Penalty Interest) but there is no reference to Interest rate applied.

The sheet of approved abbreviations is far from complete or comprehensive.

I recieved no copy of the original credit agreement nor have I in the past.

They did send me a letter stating that they purchased the debt originally.

I will serve a DPA on Citifinancial. It was remiss of me because I have been reading the site for so long I should have known better but some say the collection agency should have ALL details as they now own the debt and others say claim back from the bank and pay off the collection agency with the return. It's the bank who have hit the charges and Cabot who have added interest, but it's difficult to see from these statements if they have added any charges other than interest.

Now gone through my statements. Cabot have only given details of their charges and receipts. Interestingly they state on their printouts at various times throughout the year " Apply Penalty Interest " they don't say at what rate the interest is charged either . They have not included any information regarding the account prior to purchase ie: from the credit card company. I was under the impression they were to supply this under a SAR if they bought the debt. Do I have to go back to Cabot and get this information or do I now have to go to the credit card company? CAn I demand to know what the interest charge rate is too? I think it's 12% from memory when I asked on the phone but it is not recorded on my file. They are way over the 40 days already.

There'll be 20000 eyes on this thread soon - well done you're an inspiration to us all !

Notty, Keep an eye on the threads re Cabot. There are a number of claims going to them and you should search the site for debt collection agencies. You seem to be getting in a pickle and theres plenty of other experiences posted that would have helped you on this from the beginning. Good luck

Hi, well I recieved my (SDA) data this morning but you'd better have some cash handy as it came recorded but no postage was paid so I had to go off to the post office and pay £2.56 to get it. They'll be paying for that! There's a whole load of analysis going to have to be undertaken this afternoon as it doesn't look as if they have outlined any of the charges at all but in part of the narative it states " apply penalty interest " that makes the saliva start !! Will post back later once I've sorted this lot out. Be interesting to hear whether anyone else has to pay their postage as they used the same trick on me with the £10 as they did with Anna Marie.

Having just gone through the experience of claiming for an accident my wife had after being knocked off her bike while a driver was on his mobile, I'd almost be inclined to deal directly with the insurance company. The Solicitors we used were totally useless and I had to do all the pushing and negotiating - after which he said I ought to have been a solicitor! I thought these guys were trained! He wanted us to settle for £4k - it was 12.5k by the time I'd finished and his fees ran at some 82% of the claim which means we could have settled directly with the insurance company for about 17.5k and they still would have got it cheaper. I'd certainly never go to a no win no fee crowd again and I'd try to deal with the insurance company direct ( so long as it wasn't too complex a case as ours wasn't ).

Lillboy, just in case you haven't sent it yet you have left out a word in the paragraph under the bold type. " you will leave me with" not " you will me with"... no option etc. just a minor thing but looks better if it's all there!

Thanks Neil - I'll take a look.