I had a credit card through Boots chemist run by Prudentials 'Egg'. back in 2001. In 2002 it was passed to Bryan Carter & Co solicitors who pursued it, Fredrickson Int'l DCA's came on the scene for a while and then it went back to Carters. In 2003 they sent it back to Egg.

I sent my Data Protection Act to Boots who I had originally got the card through on 8th May - so far they haven't banked the cheque or sent the info.

I am now wondering if I should have sent the DPA to Egg Direct but I don't want to have to start all over again. Should Boots supply all the DPA SAR - (Subject Access Request) Information?

Also, I phoned Carters to see how they closed the account and they are holding my details on their computer - they found my account when I gave them the ref no. Should they not remove the data once it is closed? I don't like the fact they won't give me any information and it sits on their system. Would I have to do a DPA on them too? - all these £10's get expensive.

I have had my business account charges covering 2 years refunded by Co-op - keep at it Ted. No legalities, just negotiated, paid in full using the info from this site. Don't go silent on everyone Ted - I think we are all worried about you.

I have a friend who was knocked down outside his school by a speeding driver whilst crossing a zebra crossing with his bike - he had a passion for flying and his whole life revolved around planes and his dream of joining the airforce.

He was/is a lovely lad but badly damaged by this speeding driver. He now walks around at 30 years of age using a mobile zimmer frame, cannot work as his memory lasts about 5 minutes, he walks shuffling his feet. He is the same age as my son and they grew up together for about 6 or 7 years. My son is a fit healthy active, happy and smashing lad, girlfirends, travels the world, and does all the the things a person of his age should do. His friend is a sad and frustrated young man dependant on his whole family for support 24/7. The contast is dramatic. Oh, and who was the speeding driver? ........... a police car chasing someone else!

I haven't run a thread on this for various reasons but have been working at the bank for a few weeks. Sent Prelim letter from Templates. Never got to LBA because I didn't want the account closed. Just talked and waited. Played the gently gently role and used all the material learned from reading through the threads. It shows you can negotiate if you try, although it doesn't seem to be going that way with personal and credit card DCA accounts. BUT....

hey presto IT WORKED ! Success, all charges over 2 years being refunded !!!

Thank you everyone BF Dave, Seminole, VAMP et al .. without this wonderful site it would never have been....... another donation on the way..

Now onto the Credit cards... !

I have a Ltd Company account with Co-op - all £800 charges over 2 yrs being returned. It can be done!

Thank you BF Dave et al - Donation en route.!

This is the letter I sent followed by their reply:

Mrs M Carpenter

Data Protection Officer

The Royal Bank of Scotland plc,

Credit Card Operations

Regulatory Risk

PO Box 6050

Southend on Sea. SS99 1WL xxxx 2006

Dear Mrs Carpenter

Re: Universa Credit Card: xxxxxxxxxxxx

I thank you for your letter of xx May regarding the DPA Subject Access Report xxxxxxxxxx

Upon examination of said report it appears that unlawful charges have been made against my account and I am writing to ask you to refund to me these charges plus the interest calculated at the rate you charged which you have levied over the period of the account. Your department may not be the one dealing with this now that my enquiry has progressed, but I trust you will forward it to the correct department without delay.

I now understand that this regime of fee charges which you had been applying to my account in relation to late payment and returned item fees are unlawful at Common Law, Statute and recent Consumer regulations. Penalty charges are unrecoverable at common law, the bank knows that, they are fully automated transactions and do not reflect any liquidated or actual loss to the bank. Therefore, I would like them repaid forthwith.

You may consider your charges fair reasonable and compliant but that flies in the face of factual common law and I consider that your representations that your charges are fair and reasonable are deceptive and that they have deceived me into agreeing to pay them.

If you say that they are lawful then will you please demonstrate this by letting me have a full breakdown of the costs to which you have been applying as a result of my breaches in order to reassure me that your penalties really do reflect your costs.

Additionally, it has now been confirmed that your particularly high level of penalties are considered to be unfair per se by the OFT who reported on the 5th April 2006 and are therefore presumed to be unlawful in the absence of specific proof to the contrary.

Your responsibilities

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law. You clearly haven’t done that.

Your concealment of the true nature of these charges has prevented me from asserting my right until now.

What I require

I calculate that you have taken £295 in penalty charges plus £189.82 which you have charged me in interest at the contractual rate of the credit card. This equates to the introductory period at 0.639% per month and thereafter at 1.873% per month until 4th July 2003 when the account was closed. Totalling £484.82. Should this claim arrive in Court I will be awarded 8% on the totals from the dates of the offences calculated to be £101.17p. This brings the total to £585.99p. This 8% is what I could have earned if I had had the funds at the time.

My targets to resolve this matter

I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and I am writing this letter to you on the assumption that you will prefer to do this than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets or proceed to court.

I will give you 14 days to reply to me accepting unconditionally my request for £585.99 repayment and letting me know a date by which I will receive this.

If you do not respond or you do not respond positively within this time period, I shall send you a letter before action before taking court procedures to claim these unlawful charges. I believe that these targets are more than sufficient for a large company such as yours with dedicated staff and departments.

After that there will be no further communication from me and I shall issue a claim at the expiry of the deadline.

I trust that will not be necessary and I look forward to hearing from you.

Yours sincerely,

Andrew1

The Reply:

Credit Card Operations

Customer Contact Centre

P0 Box 6050

Southend-on-Sea

Essex SS99 1WL

Telephone: 0870 9070 010

Facsime: 0870 1541 333

Website: http://www.rbs.co.uk

xxxx June 2006

Account Number: xxxxxxxxxxxx

Dear Andrew1

Thank you for your letter dated xx June 2006 addressed to Mrs M Carpenter, which has been passed to me to reply.

We believe that our charges are fair, reasonable and transparent. We consider that the amounts debited to your account have been applied strictly in accordance with your agreement with us and our published tariff, which we are satisfied, complies with all applicable laws and regulations. We are also committed to ensuring the transparency of the information that we give to our customers about the operation of our products.

Against that background, we must differ to the views expressed in your letter. Accordingly, the charges that have been applied to your account will stand.

Therefore, in light of the previous letters that you have exchanged with Mrs M Carpenter, I think that it is appropriate that I tell you that this is the bank’s final response to you on this matter. You may now wish to seek the opinion of the Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS) and the enclosed leaflet, which is produced by the FOS, tells you more about the scheme and how to contact them.

You can also visit the website wwwfinancial-ombudsman.orq.uk and if you do write to the FOS then you should provide them with a copy of this letter within six months of the time that you receive it. You should also send copies of any documentation that you feel supports your case.

Yours sincerely

James Lansdale

Contact Centre Manager

In veiw of the fact they say " this is the banks final response " I guess it's an LBA ?

so it's okay then?

I believe this is the template is it not? Does the fact that I have paid them some repayments make any difference to the fact that I do not acknowledge the debt to them - if I didn't why would I be paying them? Anyway take a look and let me know if you think it's okay..

Lindsey Thomas

Recoveries Manager

Cabot Financial

PO Box No.241

West Malling

Kent ME19 4NA

Dear Ms Thomas

Your reference:xxxxxxxxxxxxx

Firstly, I do not acknowledge ANY debt to your company. I require you to supply the following documentation before I will correspond further on this matter.

1. You must supply me with a true copy of the alleged agreement you refer to. This is my right under your obligation to supply a copy of the agreement under the legislation contained within s.78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 (s.77 (1) for fixed sum credit) - your obligation also extends to providing a statement of account. I enclose a £1 postal order in payment of the statutory fee, PO Serial Number xxxxx.

2. A signed true copy of the deed of assignment of the above referenced agreement that you allege exists.

3. You are notified that you are obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not under S189 of the CCA 1974.

Non-compliance with my request is a criminal offence under the above Act and will result in a report being submitted to the relevant statutory authorities.

As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.

Take note at this stage, that any legal action you may contemplate will be both vigorously defended and contested.

Yours sincerely

Andrew1

By the way, I didn't find this in the Templates thread I found it in the Debt Collection Agency thread. Maybe it could do with going in with the templates.

Seminole, I will leave to your better judgement the content of this extremely well constructed letter and the implications. However, one minor ommission in the third from last paragraph " This seems to ... be....at variance with ICO's role.."... 'be' missing? trivial I know but might as well get it right. Well done and good luck with this.

unlawful....illegal

 

both have same meanings

More importantly the banks understand exactly what they mean

Unlawful .... Common law

Illegal ...... Criminal law.

Bank charges .... Unlawful ! not Criminal ( although it is if you see what I mean !)

Your paperwork and letters should refer to Unlawful charges and penalties not illegal.

Thanks Tom - I've just LMAO at what it meant! This site never fails to amuse me - you learn something every day!

Okay, I'll do as you suggest, but I have already sent my DPA off to Citi - anyway I'll follow the Cabot route first and if you are right, which you probably are the whole thing will die! Thanks then I can LMAO all the more !

No it's not an official looking letter at all, just one on their headed paper and the 1-5 points in capitals.

As a matter of interest, I have now sent a DPA / SAR to the Credit Card Company CitiFinancial as there are unlawful charges on the card. I won't know how much until I receive the statements. The total debt is just over £900 and there will be at least half of that in charges I am sure.

There are two points which have conflicting thoughts throughout various threads. Cabot bought the debt from Citi so I was under the impression that Cabot bought warts and all and would be responsible for settling any unlawful charges applied even before CitiFinancial sold it to them. However, some say Cabot ( or the DCA ) are only responsible for any unlawful charges made AFTER they bought the debt and all previous Credit Card charges should be sought from the Credit card company itself.

Have you any consoliodated thoughts yourself or are you aware of any consensus of opinion?

Would you suggest I told Cabot that the account is in dispute with Citi and then deal with Citi over the charges? I think by doing this it will freeze Cabot's involvement until the dispute is resolved if I am correct.

Sorry, but what is LMAO?

Thanks for the reply Stonelaughter and my apologies for the delay in reply ( I've been in Germany watching the footy - had tickets to England / Sweden ! Now back to the real action!

Am writing to Cabot again requesting as you suggest.

Interestingly I have just received a letter from them stating that " failure to resolve this outstanding debt would result in commencement of one of the following actions being taken: ( I have a choice? !!)

1) Instruction to an external agent to call on me

2) A warrant of execution

3 A charging Order

4) An attachment of earnings order

5)Order to obtain information.

FAILURE TO RESPOND NOW ENSURES THE COMMENCEMENT OF ONE OF THE ABOVE

Which one should I choose? !!

idjuts!

One down - how many more to go? !!!!

Quote from Credit Today mag:

"Advance Information Group, a relative newcomer to the world of credit information and collections, closed for business this week. The company, with offices in London, Edinburgh and the Midlands (Derby), collapsed without any warning. The DCA was not a member of the Credit Services Association.

Calls to the offices were going unanswered as we ( Credit Today Magazine ) went to press, but we managed to make contact with Chris Orchard, the company's sales director. He was refusing to take calls but left a voicemail message, blaming the collapse of the company on physical threats to staff at the company's offices. Orchard continued: "The physical threats to us at our offices are out of order. "

Must have said something not to some peoples liking perhaps?

Re:Cabot get these answers before you start.

1)If Cabot owns the debt who are responsible to supply the DPA info for the period Citi held the account?

2) Who is responsible for paying ALL the charges back now that Cabot own it?

3) Do you need to also do a DPA request to Citi?

4) Are Cabot charging you interest on any late payments?

Then let battle commence!

There's a thread on cabot. Not a lot happened recently on it but I think people are waiting responses from them. Cabot buy the debt for about 12% of it's value. Offering anything above that is profit for them. Start low and build on it making sure they know you are borrowing from everyone you know and its a full and final offer. What you have to practice is some negotiating skills. Cabot are notorious for not having the correct documentation so you are going to have to start reading the debt collection agency threads and on some of the posters such as EDUIN who seems to have some first hand knowledge of these. Seminole gets into a froth every time anyone mentions cabot so keep an eye out for his postings too.

Also Alan, You mentioned ' useless card protection insurance' you're not claiming for those as well are you? This gets more interesting by the day (delete) minute!

I don't want to feck up this thread, but all this just goes to show the power of this site. SYNERGY ! It's bloody wonderful! Thank you Mods et al.

Is there any particular reason Ted why you need these people? Forgive me for being personal but I'm wondering how they differ from what this site has?

Whislteblower, If you haven't already done so search the threads on debt collection agencies. There are a number of different situations you could be in with the same debt ie: does the DCA own the debt now - did you get a letter from the original finance organisation that the debt has been sold to them? or are they merely acting as an agent? Which debt collection agency is it? There are threads for just about every one of them here and people's expereinces are very interesting to watch as they give you a guide to what you can do. £120 sounds an awful lot to pay out if you are trying to get by and there are laws ( someone has threaded them somewhere) which states that you have to have enough to live on - what's left should be equally distributed to creditors. Not knowing your overall position financially it is difficult to say what to do. Many people have had a lot of experiences with these companies and there are many ways to deal with them, but you must keep in control of their pressures and resist them and this site tells you how to take control again, what your rights are and most importantly, by scanning for a few days the threads on peoples experiences you aquire the terminology with which to talk your way to a stronger position by knowing the game they are playing. This site is an education and the only way to a better education - read!

Keep posting your thoughts and your responses and someone will come back and talk you through it all. If debt is a problem the charity http://www.cccs.co.uk are very very good at sorting things out with creditors without all the stigma that goes with debt. These people will talk you through most things but this site is an encyclopiedia of information on how to deal with things. Keep posting and don't worry.

Which debt agency is it?

How about compiling the stories of Neil and Whizz and selling them on the site for those who are claiming - that way you'll raise loads for the running?

Well done Whizz - you're a star

That's precisely my point. If it only relates to the time when you discovered the defence ie: now, does it mean that the WHOLE offence should be taken into account, not just the six years we are all restricting our claims on?

So that means if one claims within 6 years of the last charge or from when we found out about the unlawfulness of their action then we can claim back for as far back as we like? So the 6 years statute of limitation actually relates to the period from when the offence by the bank was found out not the period for which we are generally limiting our claims to?

It's a pity which? seem to always get the credit. what about us?