I feel for you. You have a bit in your favour I suppose in that they cannot provide the documentation. All the bank are able to do in my case is provide a copy of the guarantee. They have not been able to provide copies of any other correspondence(I am 99.9% certain there wasnt any) nor time lines on when guarantee was submitted for signing and when it was returned. What happened to me was essentially duress regarding the signing and the events many years later which concluded with their calling in the guarantee was effectively neglicence on their part I never signed a waiver. The duress, no waiver or offer of one, and their negligence will be the basis of my defence as even though they have not not come up with promised info they have still let loose a DCA on me. If you look at the documentation listed on needabreak you will see a waiver. If you signed one of those you really do have a problem UNLESS the bankman was standing over you saying sign this or else when I think you have a chance. The timeline is important. If Bankman sees you, presents the paperwork for you to sign and says"if you dont sign now, we will be returning cheques" I reckon that is duress - but I am not a lawyer If at the same time they said you had to sign a waiver but did not give you time to consult someone who would be on your side, I am sure that would help a duress claim too. But the ruling on bank charges does not give much encouragement for us to rely on the law being "fair" that ruling being very clearly unfair I do wish you luck-I will be keeping the forum in touch with my results as and when they happen

Deb T - you are an angel, yopur trouble in replying is much appreciated. I am not confrontional by nature, my inclination is always to negotiate but am out of my comfort zone here as these people are clearly just after the money and their rake off, with the bank acting badlyfrom the start right through to now where they are not responding either to my requests nor letting me know what action is being taken. It was a Ltd Co, so although they negligently allowed the overdraft to go WELL over the £20,000 they got me to guarantee all those years ago, they can only claim that part of it. We will see- and I will certainly let you know what is happening Thank you again

Thank you, Deb. As stated in my previous post, while it ends up in India I send it to the correspondence address at Canry Wharf (HSBC H.O.London) I will ensure anything elsr goes recorded. But do I need to reply to the DCA - Apex. Should I pay them the £50 goodwill, even though I wont admit the debt as it was under duress, should I say I will not speak to them until HSBC says I should, and even if HSBC says so, can I just ignore them and write to HSBC instead Are Apex entitled to have from me a statement of affairs HSBC have not advised either that they have passed it to Apex for collection or that they have sold the debt on. Apex are suggesting dire consequences if I do not respond in 5 days (from two days ago) on the other hand the "Good Cop" there says if I provide the information they will be able to arrange a speedy settlement I reckon HSBC know they are on dodgy ground (see first post) and are trying the DCA route to frighten me. But never having been in a situation like this before I really am a lost sheep and know doing the wrong thing at this stage could have horrible consequences

Thank you all! Will try to get grips with the navigation. Did not send by recorded delivery, but first request was included in letter, part of which was actioned, but not that part. So they cannot deny receiving that request The verbal request was again a follow up to their reply and when subject raised, That is when I was told the paperwork requested would take 21 days My follow up was sent my normal post, but I did prepare it on my P.C. using word, so I do have a copy on the hard drive as well as a paper copy. Their correspondent is India based I believe, although the correspondence adress is Canary Wharf

I have posted my problem elsewhere - but can't find it! This is not the problem but related to it. HSBC have ignored correspondence and requests for information sent to them over 6 months ago (2 written, 1 verbal) Have had letter from Apex saying I have to deal with them and pay them money, give statement of affairs etc But HSBC have not told me they have passed the matter to Apex. Do I have to talk to Apex, ignore them, politely tell them I need to see their mandate from HSBC or request same from HSBC

In which County do you live - I get can get you names of recommended , and by that I mean the inside knowledge of good retailers with righ product from the manufacturers reps, they know the good from the ok and the bad.

Thanks to both of you. I did sign the guarantor form and they have produced a copy. What they have NOT done is provide a timeline. Essentially the bankman said sign here or no overdraft. As there were cheques waiting to be paid, I signed. The agreement advised to take professional advice, but I was urged to sign there and then "as a formality" My opinion is that as they did not offer a waiver - I doubt if they had them in those days - and I was not given time to take advice, I was under duress. To "prove " this, is why I have asked for any covering correspondence - I dont believe there is any Date the agreement was sent to me date I returned it I would like to think that if they cannot do either of these things my claim of duress will stand up Hopefully...... But am really nervous about sending APEX even 50p never mind £50 as I feel they would claim that is an admission of the debt. I would still pay the £2,000 I offered as full and final, without prejudice and all that, just to get it sorted - with my health as it is I have little enough time left, and while my wife had no direct involvement in it, and I have no share in the property while she is alive, should, as likely, I predecease her ( as well as health issues she is 10 years younger and from a long living family) I do not want her being pressurised by these people. Life will be tough enough for her without all that

Thank you PGH The request as you put it not sent. I requested - copies of any correspondence, the date the guarantor form was submitted to me, and the daye it was received back Essentialy, they will be unable to supply it as it was brought over andtaken back by hand in the space of 15 minutes In considering this, will sending a forma Subject Access Request help? Thank you again

Just found this! Hope you are resolved. I have a VERY similar problem - except my wasnt in the little chef, but leaning against the photocopier and probably took 15 minutes as we had a cup of tee. Have posted a new thread as at todays date. If see this and are able to trouble to read it, should you have a info. that may help me I would love to hear from you

Sorry for a second post. But it is important to know that my wife was not a director of the Company and had not been asked my me to talk to the bank as my agent - indeed, it was not until a few months ago that I knew she had done so

Hi everyone - am new to here and so happy to be so as everyone appears to be helpful I am desperate. The sob story first. 69 years old. Unable to work after heart surgery, wife also who has advanced athritis and has a series of operations ahead of her. Income , joint around £14,000 - so little left to pay the sharks. The problem. When had heart attack 2 years ago had bank overdraft facility for £20,000. I had signed a guarantee some 6 years previously in dubious circumstances The bank was just over the road, manager came over said you are overdrawn so need to sign a formal guarantee to let the overdraft continue. Guarantee said advice should be taken - bank manager said dont worry about that, just sign it, sure it will be ok . Did so and didnt think another thing about it. No Waiver form form was offered or signed. Didint think any more about it. Sometimes bank owed me money, sometimes overdraft facility used. When I had heart attcak, my wife had to take over running of business (£1.2milliont/o) but as I I was engineman, stoker and guard, it soon began falling apart. She told manager of situation and had meeting with him. The facility continued and indeed they let it go over!. Another meeting was arranged but the manager did not turn up. When I was well enough to know about the circumstances it was clear the biz.could not carry on and we appointed a receiver to arrange voluntary liquidation, which was done very quickly. Bank did not attend creditors meeting. (No one attented creditors meeting) 10 months later bank wrote asking for money. I said couldnt pay a further 4 months recovery dept wrote. I filled in all forms (incidentally I have no meaningful assetts, the house belongs to my wife who boughtit, pays rates and utilities on it - we married after the properties purchase - I havnt owned a property for 16 years) giving income aand expenditure. I offered without prejudice a full and final payment of £2.000 and at same time requested documentation and time trail on the guarantees signing. A month later, they rejected the offer but did not provide paperwork I phoned, repeated offer, rejected again, and verbally requested the paperwork. Said it would be with me in 21 days Nothing, so 42 days later sent a letter that as I had not heard from them considered the matter closed Now, ist November, MONTHS later had letter from Apex debt collectors demanding money Have verbally related facts to them stressing I had not admitted the debt as it was signed for under duress with no time give for outside advice and without a waiver being signed. Also that once the bank had been advised of my circumstances they should have stopped the facility - especially as at one stage the account was in credit! Apex have said, if I pay the £50 that shows my goodwill and would be advantageous as to my intentions Still no paperwork If I pay the £50, am I then admitting the debt even though I say without prjudice Apex claim I have admitted the debt by making an offer to pay" £2000 in full and final settlement without prejudice to my contesting the validity of the claim" Frankly, if the take me to court, there is no blood to come out of the stone, bankruptcy would be an inconvenience but not a disaster as it would then clear off some credit card debts (which seperate to the guarntor claim are not a particular problem) and I dont need to borrow money. Should I pay the £50 Should I make another offer (I withdrew the last when it was not accepted Should I call their bluff and let them take it as far as they want Any advice would be gratefully received

Only joined today on some other matter Have retired after 40 years in the kitchen industry suplying and installing kitchens If you go to the multiples you will get a flatpack Not much wrong with them, but by and large they have a reasonable starting price, but at that price are basic. Nothing wrong with that either - I have seen many a MFI kitchen 20 years old still o.k. if looked after. But the problem is with people like Homebase/wickes etc The product is not particularly cheap and you can go to independants who will usually, especially in bad times like now, do lower spec. ranges Youw will then get proper planning, attention of someone who if not the owner will be really interested in the kitchen and not the Saturday Boy. He/Her will use a regular fitter rather one from a list and will take interest in the fit. They will get things often overnight instead of weeks later, and will certainly have planned it asfter seeing your property rather than from a sketch They will usually access value appliances. The multiple if having their own , rather than a nominated fitting service basically mug you. For example Wickes , before starting with the fitting costs stick on £400 profit for themselves! It is to cover admin they say, but really it is for commissions to the salesmen and their own profit So if you buy from them, get your own fitter Now this is a bit late since you wrote in Sepotember, and to tell you how to select the correct product and get the right price will take me an hour of writing. So if you want more info send a message and I will give you the lowdown! I must now deal with my own nasty problem