If you were to read my other post (just above yours) it is claimed "estoppal by acquiescence" and not simply "acquiescence". Hence the meaning has now changed as it is not simply "silence = acceptance". Will give that case law a good read. Thanks for the link.

Incidentally, in case anybody does not know what "acquiescence" means: acquiescence legal definition of acquiescence. acquiescence synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary. Conduct recognizing the existence of a transaction and intended to permit the transaction to be carried into effect; a tacit agreement; consent inferred from silence. For example, a new beer company is concerned that the proposed label for its beer might infringe on the trademark of its competitor. It submits the label to its competitor's general counsel, who does not object to its use. The new company files an application in the Patent and Trademark Office to register the label as its trademark and starts to use the label on the market. The competitor does not file any objection in the Patent Office. Several years later, the competitor sues the new company for infringing on its trademark and demands an accounting of the new company's profits for the years it has been using the label. A court will refuse the accounting, since by its acquiescence the competitor tacitly approved the use of the label. The competitor, however, might be entitled to an Injunction barring the new company from further use of its trademark if it is so similar to the competitor's label as to amount to an infringement.

To be honest I fail to see why so many members actually get "their knickers in a twist" with DCAs. (Not being funny here but.......... read the following). You had a debt with A. A sold (assigned) the debt to B. B is the DCA. B contacts you saying blah blah blah. Ok. Draft them a letter refering to the following: (Send the letter addressed to the C.E.O. so it is official) 1: Reference to their letter. 2: Reference to the fact that they have a license issued by the OFT to operate. 3: Reference to the fact that to obtain that license they promised the OFT to abide by its guidelines. 4: Reference to the OFT Guidelines that states that before a creditor can pass on a debt to a third party or to a debt collection agency, they have to obtain your consent. (You can search this on the OFT Guidelines). 5: You wish to see a copy of the letter the OC sent asking for your consent. 6: You wish to see a copy of the letter where you gave your consent. As usual write name and do not sign. (Or personally I prefer to sign using a different name and mark it "Signed on and on behalf of" which will make it fully legal). Do not offer to make any payments to the DCA because that can be interpreted as "giving your consent". (Although you can argue that you were harrassed/pushed/threatened or whatever into doing so if you have done any payments). Post the letter recorded and give them 14 working days to reply. IF they do not reply send them a letter stating: "You have failed to reply to my letter dated xx/xx/2010 and hence please note you are in default and I claim estoppal by acquiescence. Please do not contact me again". (Again send letter to the C.E.O.) and recorded mail. Template letters are good but (in my own personal opinion) should not be copied without at least being read and if need be modified. Otherwise you are simply acting the same as the DCA's and just sending template letters. Furthermore, as I have pointed out in a different thread, a member should search and do some research and not expect things to be "just done for him/her".

Some good points made. I will also try and add my comments: The first part of the letter I have already seen it on another forum. It was basically a letter regarding somebody who had entered into a mobile agreement. This is the transcript from the original letter:

LOL. What have I started!!!!!!! I claim "temporary insanity" Me Lurd.

That is what I use when I make homebrew wine. :D Oops.

Thanks but I have not been clamped (and neither have any interest of being clamped). Companies like Civil Enforcement I love them cos they are as thick as two short planks but clampers not really as they do hold you "by the short and curlies". Best to try and avoid. But it does seem I understood the judgement correctly.

Think you have just answered yourself. Or look at it like this: A man gets married to the most beautiful woman any man can find and then after eating loads of Doritos she puts on 10 stones. He wishes she is back to her original form. What does he wish? :D:D:D

Well personally I look at it as advertising for more business and basically saying "Forget doing your own. Come to us. We want your money". Parts marked with bold I have already referred to them in my previous post #111 and #120 on page 6

Thanks for the link. I have got that Balii but I can never seem to be able to get the grip how to use it properly. Any tips would be welcome.

Marina Helen Vine -v- London Borough of Waltham Forest [2000] EWCA Civ 106; [2000] 1 WLR 2383 5 Apr 2000 CA Lord Justice Roch, Lord Justice Waller, And Lord Justice May Land, Torts - Other, Road Traffic Casemap 1 Cites 1 Citers The act of wheel clamping a car which was unlawfully parked is a trespass to goods. To avoid an action for damages, the clamper must show that the car parker consented to the clamping. He can do so by showing, in accordance with established principles, that the driver had had his attention brought to the fact that wheel clamping operated, through appropriate notices to that effect. Where, as here, the driver persuaded the court that she had not seen the notices, the clamping remained unlawful. No malice was intended, and no punitive damages could be awarded. "The act of clamping the wheel of another person's car, even when that car is trespassing, is an act of trespass to that other persons property unless it can be shown that the owner of the car has consented to, or willingly assumed, the risk of his car being clamped. To show that the car owner consented or willingly assumed the risk of his car being clamped, it has to be established that the car owner was aware of the consequences of his parking his car so that it trespassed on the land of another. That will be done by establishing that the car owner saw and understood the significance of a warning notice or notices that cars in that place without permission were liable to be clamped. Normally the presence of notices which are posted where they are bound to be seen, for example at the entrance to a private car park, which are of a type which the car driver would be bound to have read, will lead to a finding that the car driver had knowledge of and appreciated the warning." The Recorder had held, correctly, that the appellant by parking her car where she did was trespassing. Unhappily, he then jumped to the conclusion that the appellant had consented to, or willingly assumed, the risk of her car being clamped. In making that leap the Recorder fell into error. Anybody got access to this case law? I am interested in the explanation given as to why "In making that leap the Recorder fell into error". Might be some interested news against being clamped.

Ok then. You get the first beers in. I seem to have forgotten my wallet at home. :D

Bank Charges Reclaiming: Fight unfair charges, updated after OFT dropped case...

Yes it does reinforce your points but also, considering that the quotes I gave are from a House of Commons debate then surely, considering the Goverment know of what is going on, what can the "man in the street" do to make an institution possibly forfeit a license to trade or even......... get it a suspension?

Sorry have to disagree with that one. YES they do not like the idea of being reported (that black note on their book I guess) BUT the awards (actually if any at all) are punitive even if found that have done something wrong. It is ONLY in extreme cases that a fair award can be awarded. What you will be told is "You must not expect the solicitor to give an excellent service but at least a reasonable service". I will give you a complaint in short. A trust is made. 3 Trustees appointed 2 of which are solicitors and 1 is a layperson (but represented and advised by a solicitor). 2 to look after the interest of 50% of the trust (a property to be sold later on) 1 to look after her share of the property. High Court order (trust). High Court order for example one of the conditions was that the property had to be kept in market conditions so when it is sold it will fetch market value. Property in time sold for two thirds market value (all properties round the area were fetching say in the £90,000 this property was sold for £60,000). Claim was it was not kept to market value and obtained best price. 2 Arguments: (1) The two trustees protecting the 50% should not have agreed to sell until property repaired and brought up to market value. Fair comment I would say. (2) The two trustees should have checked the charges to ensure all were fair and good. Legal complaints awarded £2,000 damages of which £400 were wrongful charges applied and never found to be a mistake. So that makes it £1600 damages and £400 refund. Property was resold 3 months later for £97,500 (while complaint with Legal Services was still ongoing). Is that a fair compensation? Heck no. Not when the 50% of difference is £18,750 lost. Told that if want to contest have to apply for a High Court hearing which, most lay people cannot afford to do. Another complaint: Solicitor to do an oral examination and attachment to earnings gives an estimate of £500 to be paid in advance. Three months later comes up with an oral examination and a letter saying "Job done". Told "what about the attachment to earning? Job not done". A year letter complaint filed. Says need to do a new oral examination and then attachment to earnings. Wants another £250 (so 50% increase on estimate). Then advises to get an injunction to make a stop on proceeds as better. Authorised to make application. Judge throws it out of Court as wrong jurisdiction. Solicitor fired. Before he will release the file he wants............... wait for it........... £7500+. Complaint filed with Solicitors complaints. Did they make any offer for damages/neglect/professional negligence? No. The only thing that they agreed was that as he had never sent a rule 15 customer care letter I had the right to refuse to pay him the difference (as the only thing that was of value that really got was the oral examination and attachment to earnings). Did they even penalise him for having been stating the he "had never received any payments from the attachments" but later found to have been keeping the money for about a year instead of passing it on? Heck no. Just ordered to send the money to client. Solicitors regulation authority? That one I do not know how they operate.

Sorry but you are incorrect. That is why, for example, you may have to take the Oath but you will never see a solicitor taking an oath in a Court (unless as a witness and that might be bypassed as well).

I am curious about this. How do you expect to get the OFT or some other department to close down a bank and revoke its license when our "lovely" Goverment (dare I say that without getting booed ) went and gave them billions to help them out of the state they got themselves into? Heck! Even the goverment knows they are corrupt in the manner they operate. From: Debt Collection (Consumer Credit Act): 22 Apr 2009: House of Commons debates (TheyWorkForYou.com) (House of Commons debate) I quote: Bank of Scotland For instance, one lady described how the Bank of Scotland had constantly bombarded her and her terminally ill husband with insensitive automated phone calls. Another person, Marian Parks, described how the same bank's actions had impacted on her father, John Leather, and set out all the problems that arose as a result. To their credit, her family was so incensed that they entered into litigation before Mr. Recorder Grice at the Truro county court, where the matter was determined on 23, 24 and 25 February. It is interesting that Mr. Recorder Grice described the so-called Triad system, which involves constant automated telephone calls to alleged debtors, as "a juggernaut which cannot be stopped very easily". He went on to say that "the Bank of Scotland comes at you from all sides", and that the Bank of Scotland's explanation "would be farcical had it not been so stressful." He described how use of the Triad automated telephone system went on and on. He said that there were certainly grounds for "criticism" of the Bank of Scotland and its "inflexible system", adding: "what I find really disturbing is the complete absence of a personal safety net...I think the Bank of Scotland should be subject to significant criticism". Also in the bundle of documents presented to the court was the "advanced call skill read-ahead package" for staff who work in the bank's recovery system. It tells them to use the following threats: "keep your car...protect your credit rating...be able to get future credit...prevent legal action". It suggests "borrowing from...relatives" and asking: "Is your husband/wife employed?" and so on. All that, of course, is against the spirit of the OFT code and the banking code. MDNA The MBNA bank has been pressing people. Bank after bank, institution after institution have been overbearing in the way in which they have approached decent people. Lloyds TSB Last Sunday week, The Sunday Times carried a very forensic and skilful article by its "Insight" team, in which they described the conduct of the Lloyds Banking Group's debt collection department. Workers in the so-called "recovery" department were secretly tape recorded, and the tapes revealed that it was suggested that they should put "the frighteners" on and "f..." customers who owed the bank money. Bank staff were incentivised by bonuses and, contrary to the code of practice of the Office of Fair Trading, claimed to represent firms of solicitors. The bank's staff are poorly paid, and have every incentive to maximise the extraction of money from the people whom they telephone. Inevitably, that leads to breaking the OFT code and often to a menacing attitude. One lady, a nurse, told The Sunday Times that she had been called six times a day at work, something that again breaches the OFT guidelines. Moreover, it was reported that the people who train new staff and induct them into the recovery unit persuaded them to remind home owners about repossession, and to tell them that they could be credit blacklisted.

First of all no problem. I understand that there are people who walking into a court room is like going to the pub for them and there are others where it is like going to meet the inlaws of their girlfriend for the first time. (Just to put some humour into it ) Seems for you it is the latter. BUT remember, once you have been to the inlaws a few times it becomes like second nature (unless they bloody hate you like my first ex wifes parents did ) IF you have never been in a Court room why not go round to your local country court? Ask the usher if it is ok to go in a Court room as spectator. You can actually have some fun listening to the prosecutor and the defense AND even possibly trying to find where, for example, the defendant has made mistakes or witnesses have made mistakes (obviously you keep your mouth shut lol). Alternatively look at it like you have never dated for ages and is now going on a first date. You are nervous, you do not know what to do, you hope you do everything right BUT take it easy, plan things in advance and hopefully it will all fall in place.

Thank you. Exactly what I have been trying to explain all the time. Open your eyes to other avenues/routes/alternatives and not simply section 8 and Francis Bennion. e.g. Duty of Care by the bank. Misleading information by the bank. Negligence by the bank that had adverse consequences. Whatever may help and then ADD THEM TO section 8. And the last thing I will say on the subject (because for a start it seems to me that "constructive criticism and advise" seems to not be what you like to hear) is that IF I was a Judge and somebody in MY COURT was to start hammering at me about Francis Bennion the first thing that would go through my head is "Is this person trying to tell me that this Francis Bennion is better then a Judge at interpreting Law"????? And the second thing that will go through my head is "What shall I have for lunch today after all this prattle finishes"? Trying to tell a Judge (especially some High Court Judge) that Francis Bennion is better at interpreting law (even though he drafted the Act) then a Judge in my opinion is one of the worst things to do in a Court. Heck! IF I would not be surprised if that Judge would find the most minute of things just to rule against to teach a lesson.

Fully 100% agree. Remember, a solicitor is primarily an Officer of the Court and his main obligation is towards the Court not the client. (Well supposed to be cos I have seen one stand up, look the Judge straight in the eye and lie bluntly). And when it comes to Duty of Care by a solicitor believe me........... their duty of care is primarily how much money they are going to get as a fee. Anything happens and expect the words "Well we gave it our best shot". Also, you should never look at it as "If we win". You should look at it as "I will win". Never go into a fight (literally speaking) with doubts in your head. Do the research, do the homework, ask, query, take notes and be ready. Think of what they might try to say/do and have the necessary reply ready. Read a few threads on here and see what people experiences were and what they did.

http://www.communitylegaladvice.org.uk/en/legalhelp/leaflet12_1.jsp Give them a ring or use the site to get an idea.

Hope that is not an intended "jibe" at me cos by posts # 1104, 1106, 1108, 1110 I think I have helped you and Andrew quite a bit. Read the Case Laws in them and see which apply to you. e.g. In Andrews case, he had another post in a different thread where, after trying to understand what he really meant I made them into a: b: and c: c: was to get rid of (b) and consolidate so "c" will have second charge. That falls under: Bank of Credit and Commerce International S A -v- Aboody [1992] 4 All ER 955; [1989] 2 WLR 759; [1990] 1 QB 923 1989 CA Slade LJ Banking, Undue Influence Casemap 1 Cites 1 Citers In a case where the defendant said that a mortgage had been signed from undue pressure the court may find actual undue influence as opposed to presumed undue influence. Slade LJ said: "Ever since the judgments of this court in Allcard v Skinner a clear distinction has been drawn between (1) those cases in which the court will uphold a plea of undue influence only if it is satisfied that such influence has been affirmatively proved on the evidence (commonly referred to as cases of 'actual undue influence'); (2) those cases (commonly referred to as cases of 'presumed undue influence) in which the relationship between the parties will lead the court to presume that undue influence has been exerted unless evidence is adduced proving the contrary, eg by showing that the complaining party has had independent advice." and also falls under: British Motor Trust Co Ltd -v- Hyams (1934) 50 TLR 230 1934 Branson J Contract, Banking Casemap 1 Citers Mr Lord acquired two motor coaches under two hire-purchase agreements from the claimants and persuaded his mother-in-law to guarantee his obligations by a contract indorsed on the agreements in the following terms:- "We . . . guarantee the due and punctual payment by the . . . hirer of all . . . moneys payable by him under the within written agreement . . . and we further agree that this guarantee shall not be avoided . . . by the owners and the hirer making any variation in the terms of the said agreement . . . provided that no variation shall make us liable for a greater maximum sum under this guarantee than that for which we are at present or may become liable under the present terms of the said agreement." Mr Lord fell into arrears and the claimant, instead of resuming possession, made a new single agreement with him by which the two earlier agreements were consolidated and the vehicles were regarded as being hired together so that Mr Lord could not acquire property in any one vehicle unless he paid all instalments due on both vehicles. Held: The Court described the clause permitting variation to be:- "so wide that it was almost impossible to put any limit to the power to vary." and added:- "It might be that the position of the debtor was so altered that he would be less able to repay the guarantor, but even such a change was not beyond the very wide power of variation contained in the guarantee." and falls under: Woods v Martins Bank Ltd [1958] 3 All ER 166; [1958] 1 WLR 1018; [1959] 1 QB 55 1958 Salmon J Banking, Negligence Casemap 1 Citers If a bank chooses to give advice to a customer, then the Bank’s obligation is to advise with ordinary skill and care. The liability is primarily on contract: “In my judgment, the limits of a banker’s business cannot be laid down as a matter of law. The nature of such a business must in each case be a matter of fact...” and “I find that it was and is within the scope of the Defendant Bank’s business to advise on all financial matters and that as they did advise him they owed a duty to the Plaintiff to advise him with reasonable care and skill.” Salmon J discussed the duties of legal advisers: "it cannot be too clearly understood that solicitors owe a duty to the court, as officers of the court, to go through the documents disclosed by their client to make sure, as far as possible, that no relevant documents have been omitted from their client's ." Hence, "b" got removed by "c" and "c" is not enforceable by the above case law. In respect of "a" I did not fully understand what he meant by "arrears". Hence effectively, I have shown him how "c" is non enforceable. AND the above might actually apply to your case as well.

I would have taken it that they will have their own "Inhouse" solicitors same as kind of like the Council. Then again IF they have the same type of solicitors as what the Council uses then no wonder they "fold" so fast. ;)

I read on a thread that apparanetly Robinson Way made something like £13 million profit last year. Hardly going bankrupt. http://www.crainsmanchesterbusiness.co.uk/article/20091023/FREE/910239993/1041/-/-/management-pay-73m-for-robinson-way

IF that is refering to any of the above case laws that I have posted, feel free to copy it to whichever thread you may want to.