will do, thanks dotty.

SammieM, You should probably start another thread as this is relating to someone elses debt, but to quickly answer your question: 1) If they send anyone to your doorstep they wont be able to do anything other than ask if you can pay, thats it, if you dont want this to happen at all you can write to calder expressing that you do not give permission for them to visit the premesis. 2) If they have sent you this, and you know 100% you havent ever taken out a debt they would be chasing for, write to them expressing that you have no current debts and they may be mistaken, ask them to provide proof that you owe the debt before you go any further.

Slick is the guru to listen to! In any case, make sure you request the account be closed next time you speak with them, if possible you could send them a letter requesting it, so theres no doubt and whichever way this goes you wont have a repeat of the issue

Hi Dotty50, Informal arrangements are basically a pack that helps you deal with creditors yourselves, the problem is it you do it alone a lot of creditors flatly refuse to accept the offer as they have no way of knowing if you fabricated your outgoings / incomings. Which is why they prefer Payplan / CCCS to get involved. If the creditor sees that you have spoken either and the informal arrangement you send them has their name on it they will be more inclined to accept as they know you have spoken to them and this is the best course of action. Also, a lot of the time they want a reference number from either company to prove you actually spoke to them, otherwise they may still reject it. In short, they generally dont trust anyone's account of their own financial situation, and not to side with the creditors on this one but they are right to do so, it's shocking the amount of people who consider their weekly bridge tournament as the flatulent pig pub on a saturday night to be a priority cost, as well as cigarettes etc. But if your happy dealing with them yourself then go for it, my advice would be to send them a minimum of £1 by postal order or cheque, they can't refuse the payment and it shows your willing to continue paying the debt.

They generally throw a wobbler unless a third party gets involved. Give CCCS or Payplan a call, either of them can help, I know Payplan send you an informal arrangement pack which lends some weight to the offer and they have an advice team available if the creditor still refuses, I imagine CCCS will have the same resources.

Hiya, In which case I would ask them via letter to remove the markers, i'm sure there may be a way you can print your credit file from places like experian or equifax, you could send them a copy and highlight the marker so show proof that it has been added, and ask them to remove it before you make full payments. The problem is creditors are legally entitled to add a missed payment marker and theres not much you can do to stop them, in cases like this a lot of it hinges on how nice the agent your speaking to is

Hi Johninblackpool, When you made a payment to bring the account back into shape, personally I would have asked them to guarantee that the credit file marker be removed as they are able to do this, I would do the same with this second marker. Tell them if you are to pay and bring the account back into the green, you request they remove all credit file markers and ask them to confirm it in writing to you, if your able to and feel like it you could record the call as proof. It depends how sensetive you are about your credit file, generally these are basic marks on your file and soon get watered down by the amount of successful payment markers you have.

NEW UPDATE! Received a second batch of papers through the post today, it's a full account of the transactions made on the card and also all the interest charged throughout it's life, the letter made clear that they wearnt able to provide a list of charges on the account but said they would be plain to see on the statements, i'll have a look through them at the weekend and see what the interest / charges accumilates to. Does anyone know anywhere on the site that can give me a guide on how to calculate the charges / interest I want refunded?

Hi and welcome. 1). Whichever account she used to pay the original £50, go to that bank and get a copy of the statement proving the money was taken. 2) write to both Barclaycard and Mercers stating that £50 was paid to Barclaycard on xx date (give them a photocopy of the statement and highlight the payment on it, remember to tipex out anything you don't want them to see) and that when you spoke to them you asked the account be closed down. 3) State in the letter you consider the account closed and you will not be liable to pay something as a result of unprofessional staff members who cannot follow instructions. Come back to us if they argue the point. IMPORTANT NOTE: Mercers are unprofessional and EXTREMELY intimidating, whatever happens, stick to your guns with them, tell them you owe them NOTHING and if they threaten legal action tell them to do their worst, by the sounds of it this is an open and shut case as soon as you prove the £50 was paid. The other issue is, i'm gathering from your post that the lady requested that the account be closed when she spoke to Barclaycard, if she did theres a strong basis to have this resolved. If not then you may be in hot water, as account would have remained open and all banks charge a standard fee per month for the facility so that may have accumilated to the £50 they are trying to recover. The call with Barclaycard should have been recorded, if the lady asked for the account to be closed there will be evidence to show this in the call recording, they shouldn't be claiming you never asked to close the account if theres proof you did.

Thanks! In regards to the link in the signature, assuming I applied online for the card surely they must need to provide evidence that the signature box was ticked, my SAR doesn't show this and neither did the CCA request last year, and as far as I can see theres no default notice included, i'll have another look soon. I genuinely can't remember whether I got the card online or in branch....... In either case, theres no proof of the debt owing in these documents, I just wish I could send them a template letter stating they have no grounds to ask for this to be paid, I wouldn't even be bothered about my credit rating or claiming any charges / interest back as they'll just knock it off the total debt amount owed anyways. I don't know why i'm getting so wound up about this, i guess i'm just sick and tired of them still hassling me after a year. What really irks me are the DCA's, no matter which DCA calls me for the debt they always start with the same: "Hello, i'm from ScamYouPleaseBendOver Debt Collections, i'm calling on behalf of Barclaycard for an outstanding debt. I am calling for this balance to be paid in full by credit, or debit card today, which method will you be paying with?" They don't even discuss the matter with you, they jump straight to the "pay now or face the consequences" approach, and sadly this works on many people, especially the elderly and other vulnerable people who think they have no choice but to pay. Personally, if I could infiltrate their business and expose every dirty, underhanded and exploitable procedure they have to the national press I would gladly do it free of charge. /EndNerdRage

Bump, still need help on this

BUMP + UPDATE! Received the SAR today, absolutely NO signature! Now I may have considered this irrelevant at the time but in case it's important: During one of my heated discussions with them they told me that they were unable to provide the signature as a "digital signature" would have been provided for the initiation of the credit agreement, i thought this was utter crap as I'm sure they need to supply the terms of the agreement for a signature to be sent back before they issue the card, i'm sure it works that way for all credit agreements. Were they right or just blowing hot air at me? as my SAR doesn't contain any signature i'm exited I may be able to say "do your worst" and force them to wipe the debt as no signature is in place but i'm wanting to make sure this digital signature (if there was ever one) is indeed proof. Even if it were, theres no paperwork showing a digital signature at all in the SAR so either way it makes little difference. As for claiming interest + charges back, the SAR is quite confusing and doesn't seem to give me a rundown of interest and charges applied in single amounts (like it would be in a bank statement), I think the attached letter told me it would be shown as an accumilative amount at the end of the document which I have yet to see. What's my next step in this, any advice? DPK

Hiya Johnny If your like me and your wanting to probe for signatures as proof of owing, I would send them a subject access request instead, this means they MUST include your signature and all related info on the debt. gotta send them a postal order for £10 too but it's probably worth it, if you can't wipe the debt you can probably get the charges refunded on the account fairly easily.

UPDATE: Just got another phonecall from my dad, Barclaycard have now used right to offset on me. Took £98 out of my current account and sent me an extremely snotty letter boasting about how it's their legal right to do so. Firstly, this will not go unpunished Secondly, iv'e had to pay my next wage packet into a different account to dodge the issue. Thirdly, if it's true that they have indeed "sold the debt on" as they have told me several times in the past, then barclaycard are now technically stealing money from me, if the debt does not belong to them anymore then they have no right to take money in payment for it. My other issue is the subject access request, sent it off middle of last week and still no reply, i'm guessing they need about 14 days to respond? In the meantime, I may send a rather demanding letter to BC telling them to refund the money they took for a debt they claim has been sold to a different company, or all manner of legal nasties will be unleashed upon them. I thought it was strange I seemed to have less money in my account the other day, I just thought a bill had come out late....

You have no idea! made my early shift worthwhile! lol

UPDATE! Just been contacted at work by "CM Finance?", the guy was blatantly reading a script and said he was calling for full immediate payment of the balance, told him he's having a laugh and theres no way i'm paying for a debt where there's no proof of owing, he said i'm sueable for the debt and it's now to pre-court stage and they can get baliffs involved. Told him he's talking crap as it's an unsecured debt and they would need a court order to involve baliffs, he folded and stuttered. Asked me where I got my information from, told him I work for Payplan and not to spin me any of his threats, he quickly moved onto an early settlement figure, I again told him i'm not paying a debt I feel I do not owe, he said he wont be able to hold the account unless I make a token payment of £30. Told him the law states it can be £1, he disagreed, I told him to check the textbook he's reading from, he got angry Anyways, I said i'm not moving on this until my SAR comes through, he said BC wont respond to it as it isn't theirs anymore, I told him a SAR can be relevant for any information held on me with them at any stage, regardless of who the debt has been passed to, he's sending a letter to my home address I can reply to when I get my SAR through. I think I ****ed him off a bit. Anyways, any thoughts on this? more smoke and mirrors or am I supposed to be SAR'ing CM Finance instead of BC. Still havent received the SAR yet but i'll either be disputing the debt further or claiming back a mountain of charges and wiping the debt off anyways. Fight the power. EDIT: Could have been CSL finance (who have been mentioned in other threads), they were calling me at 8:45AM whilst at work so I couldn't really be bothered to listen to their crap. DPK

seems like your in a good position then, my suggestion would be to continue sending them the same "the account is in dispute" letter until they change their tone or give up alltogether

Aye! I just wanted to make sure the OP didn't feel like those companies were the way to go, we get no end of customers who have been with fee chargers for 5+ years and their debt has actually increased

Hiya! From reading your thread, the issue seems to currently be if they can prove they sent you the T&C's at all, you say they didn't and they say they did, if you know 100% that they didn't then taking you to court would be an extremely bad move on their part as the account would actually have been in dispute after 12 days of your CCA request, meaning they would be thrown out of the court for passing the debt along whilst the account is in dispute as this is against the CCA. To address your token payment issue, Barclaycard tend to request at later stages (as it seems they have done in your previous post) that a third party become involved to prove your incomings and outgoings. the CCCS can provide an income and expenditure sheet or you can contact Payplan (tel: 0800716239), let them know your having financial difficulties and they can set you up with either an appointment with a specialist money advisor or if it's just this single debt your having problems with they will send you out one of their Informal Arrangements, which gives you a template letter to send and an income and expenditure sheet to verify your monthly surplus. Legally BC are obliged to accept a MINIMUM of £1 a month as long as you provide proof of your surplus being negative, Payplan can also give you a reference number that BC can place on their system to show you are trying to sort the situation out. The Informal Arrangement can also help you request that interest and charges be frozen whilst you make token payments. CCCS and Payplan are both free companies, so dont worry about paying monthly fees or charges as there wont be any. It's important to remember that creditors are usually happy to accept an offer of payment as long as a third party can verify your surplus, it's a "you can't get blood from a stone" situation. This is why Paypan provides a reference number so they can call and request verification of your surplus if needbe. BC send quite a lot of their clients our way who are in difficulties and i'm stumped as to why they didn't point you in their direction beforehand. If in the event the creditor replies and denies the offer of payment, Payplan have a special team on hand to help you with the situation, not sure what teams CCCS have in place to deal with this eventuality as I don't work for them. At the end of the day, creditors view £1+ a month to be better than a big fat £0 a month, and some of the time they make things difficult for themselves by not simply sending client the signature proof they ask for, therefore causing themselves and the debtor months of grief arguing back and forth. I did a CCA request for Barclaycard and i'm still disputing it with them a year later, I did a CCA request with HSBC and within 2 days got the whole lot sent to me WITH my signature, problem solved for them, no hassle. Also, Calder Financial even told me that it's EXTREMELY rare that BC take anyone to court. DPK

Hiya To add to the previous reply, don't get in contact with a fee charger to get interest and charges frozen, they will throw you into a debt management plan unethically in some cases and charge you £30 or so for administration fees each month , meaning very little is distributed between your creditors. Google CCCS or try the company I work for (Payplan), they are the only 2 free companies available and this means anything you pay towards your debts will actually be deducted off of your debts rather than go to administration fees. Both companies will negotiate to get your interest and charges frozen as standard practice. Both companies look for certain criteria to enter you into a DMP otherwise it's unethical to put you into one as you just wont have enough to distribute amongst your creditors. I can't speak for the CCCS but I know at Payplan they can help you either way it goes, if it's not by DMP they can provide you with tools to get the job done yourself. All free of charge of course. Hope this helps. BTW, Payplan's contact number: 0800716239 (or check Payplan.com) ADDITIONAL - If in doubt, visit your local Citizens Advice Bereau and ask them about both CCCS and Payplan if you want confirmation of their status as free companies. DPK

Hi slick! Thanks for the welcome, just need to ask you another few question if I may Having read several of the posts in this forum, and specifically the thread you kindly linked to me, it's my view that BC may have punched a hole in my argument as under the CCA they can provide me with a copy of the T&C without my signature (and not my original agreement, despite me clearly saying a TRUE, SIGNED copy in my original letter), my questions therefore are these: 1) I'm thinking of putting in a request to the OFT to persue it on my behalf, however i'm thinking it may be fruitless unless I first initiate a subject access request from the relevant department for which I have an address, would you reccomend sending the SAR before contacting OFT? 2) My second problem is, stupidly I have misplaced the receipts for the request letters I sent last year, i'm hoping theres some legislation that requires barclaycard to keep accurate records of all correspondence received and sent to a debtor, and I can use this to prove I sent the requests to them, even if they claim I never sent them they WILL have a record of sending me the T&C's in response to the letter, therefore proving I requested them in the first place. 3) I can't send Calder a token payment to show I am not simply refusing to deal with the debt as I originally disputed it and in my eyes it remains disputed to this day, therefore any token payments I make immediately validate their claims as proof I owe a debt to them, in the meantime I assume they will be continuing to throw interest and charges onto the debt and will eventually move it forward if they receive no response from me, perhaps a letter stating my intent to include the OFT in my dispute may hold them off?. 4) because im absolutely naff at finding the relevant threads, I was wondering if you can point me to a template letter to recover all penalty charges from my barclaycard so I have it ready to roll after my SAR comes through so in conclusion, i'm thinking this: 1: SAR Barclaycard and simultaniously let Calder know of my intentions to include the OFT upon receipt of the SAR. 2: get the SAR, letter to OFT (stating the regulations of records as iv'e lost my receipts so BC can't argue I need proof i sent the requests and letters). Send letter to BC regarding the penalty charges. 3: See what happens next! As I said in my previous post, I work for a debt management company but only since september last year, I have just been fully trained and could just ask my manager for help but the last thing I want to do having just got the job is pester them with my problems , on top of this we have a legal team to help our customers free of charge so in my department we arent always told about the legality of things, we just make a complete note of whats going on and the customers concerns and pass it to the correct team who help the customer from then onwards, which is why im seeking help from this forum Thanks for all your help, and sorry to keep asking questions, the last thing I want is for this to drag out and I suddenly get hit by a CCJ and being unable to stop it...I hate CCJ's........and Baliffs DPK

Cheers, I thought they were just ranting in my ear, just didn't want to run the risk of they finding a loophole and stinging me with a CCJ.

Your saying to ignore what they are claiming? My reasoning for asking was my uncertainty about the subject access request, if they were entitled to send me ALL my details under the CCA then they havent a leg to stand on, otherwise I may have to re-request the info at my cost and give them more time to find any documents on me. Also, I know exactly how to deal with this, IF they are within the law, if they arent then I wont be setting up an account with Payplan as i'll be admitting the debt is owing. In short: Are they right about the CCA / Subject Access Request Issue? Are there any issues I havent covered they may be able to exploit.

Heres the rundown: March last year, I submit a request to BARCLAYCARD for my credit agreement AND signature under the CCA as advised on this site. 12 Days later, no documents Sent second letter stating they had 12 further days until it becomes unenforceable at law and the account is now in dispute. 12 days later, no documents Sent letter that it's now unenforceable at law, was contacted by Mercers debt collections and said the same to them, they said they were due to send the documents out. I receive a BLANK copy of the credit agreement through the post, they ask me to sign and return it. um....no? Called them, asked them why they thought I was an idiot asking me to sign a blank agreement and said I still request the documents, they argue the CCA says they only need to provide me terms and conditions and not the signature, I argue the CCA says otherwise, they say they will send out my signature. I never hear from them again. (from April 2009) Until today (February 6th 2010) when my father called me, the debt (after an entire year) has been passed from barclaycard to mercers, mercers to Calder Financial who are now chasing me for the full balance (1460.99), I explained the story to them, advised of CCA, they state they were under no obligation to provide my signature as I actually need to submit a different form (access request or something?). I argued to the contrary, stating that barclaycard are simply stalling for time and pressuring me to pay a debt that I don't feel i legally owe them. They also argued that paying onto the card at any stage during it's life is immediate proof of the debt owing (which is absolute crap). As advised on this site, I kept receipts of the letters I sent to them but stupidly I have put them somewhere and completely forgotten where I put them (Doh!). Would love to know where I stand. If this gets ugly, I have the fortunate luck of working for Payplan (a very good and 100% free independent debt advice agency) so I can set up an employee account and shoo them away that way. If any of you are struggling and fancy giving Payplan a call the number is 0800716239. Give them a shot, I know you may think i'm preaching a bit if you call hopefully you will see how good they are for yourselves. Anyway, with my shameless advertising over, I need to know where I stand at this, currently I have the department address so send a subject access request to, as well as Calder financial's address but before I send anything was wondering what your take is on the situation? I have yet to speak to anyone where I work about this, seeing as this site helped me a lot I figured I would come here first. Should probably add this on the end tbh : my view in no way reflects the views of Payplan, it's affiliates, pets, uncles first cousin's etc etc etc, you get the picture. Advice please!

Oh, and when I say court case, I meant the general "people versus the banks" case that was recently concluded. I myself have never been in court for debts, although they do keep threatening to.