Hello. Sale of goods act should cover this. Check out the link [ARCHIVED CONTENT] Sale of Goods Act Quick Facts - BERR Salient points are there, I'd print it off and take it along with you. They're just prevaricating, trying to hold onto your money and the sale they made. It nips my head when companies try to make out that their 'company policy' over rides UK law. It doesn't. Cheers

Hi. ARC deliberately don't communicate with the gym, I tried explaining to them I'd offered in writing to make payment in full but the gym had declined, ARC still came after the money. This is what will happen: Trevor Munn will send that letter saying paper work is being prepared for court etc etc etc. (The is an empty threat. Also, they'll want to take you to court in North/Southampton, if you don't like there they can't. Prorugation of Jurisdiction dictates that they must lodge papers in a court local to you. Not that they will anyway.) If you don't agree to pay what they're asking (which you absolutely shouldn't) You will then get a letter from a company called ScotCall threatening a visit from a door step collection representative. If this person exists at all, he/she has no legal powers. Only after it has gone to court is there any real legal power involved. (And remember, they're threatening action in a court that has no jurisdiction over you...) On your partner not being able to pay. Even if it did go to court (and it absolutely won't for 200 quid) payment is based on ability to pay. The court will ask for income and outgoings then make a calculation on that. But listen. Don't worry about it. Just keep all your paper work in any case. Don't have any communication that isn't in writing and don't talk to anyone on the doorstep, they have no power and are only there to intimidate you, if anyone turns up at all. Now I make a sport of goading these people. Once you realise they have no power, you realise there isn't anything these cretins can do other than moan on the phone. For me, the last I heard was from ScotCall threatening a doorstep collection. When I opened the letter, I laughed and stuck it my folder just in case.

These gyms ignore disputes because as far as they're concerned your hooked for 12 months minimum, if your not happy and try to cancel enter ARC then someone like Trevor Munn. They'll bully and threaten for a while, Trever will send a faux legal letter about county court proceedings but will do nothing. Eventually selling the debt on to another even more tawdry collection agency, it'll just rumble on and on until eventually all your son will here are automated messages left on what ever contact number they have for him. In terms of credit referencing, I'm not an expert but I do have a terrible credit rating, to my knowledge nothing about David Lloyd though (the gym I had a tussle with.) For credit ratings I'd only worry about CCJ's and your son won't get one on account of this, any CAB officer will say the same thing. They're just playing the odds, hoping he'll he'll eventually cough up. As mentioned above, you can't join a gym without agreeing to the contract terms, but defaulting rarely leads to anything more than a series of threatening letters or these weird recorded computer voices on your voice mail. I now get a fair bit of exercise from goading companies like ARC and Trevor Munn, if you can get them to lose their temper on the phone (use the record function on your mobile) it works wonders as a bargaining chip.

Hi. I've had dealings with Trevor Munn threatening court action. If you read the letter they sent carefully, it won't actually say they're taking you to court, it'll say something along the lines of they 'are preparing papers for submission to Northhampton County Court.' I had a problem with David lloyd leisure, ARC (A real shower of ****s) and dodgy Trevor Munn. I'll bet a pound to a bucket of slurry they won't take you to court, you don't say how much it's for, but generally, they bank on the threats, if they don't work then they either go away or sell it to a more local debt management firm. A tip for you. In that letter, it says they'll take you to (I think) North or Southampton County Court. I live up in Scotland, so in line with Prorugation of jurisdiction, they need to take me to court where I live. That makes it much more expensive for them to continue. Also, and I realise this may not work for you if you live in England. On the contract it says all disputes will be dealt with under English law. If you don't live in England that infringes your statutory rights. Perhaps you do though so not so useful. Assuming you don't live in the county where they're threatening to sue you, let them get on with it (it'll be an empty threat.) However if they do, you can write to the court and have it thrown out as being incompetent under P of J. (paragraph 3(4) of schedule 8 to the Civil Jurisdiction & Judgments Act 1982. Paragraph 3.) They were on sticky ground with me anyway as I'd offered to settle in full in writing but they still denied me access to the club and refused to accept payment, they basically nullified their own contract. That P of J law is handy as it may make it financially unviable for a company to chase you for money. If you want any help you can get in touch, I still have my file at home. Cheers

Mmm. Its a bit of a grey area, the accident was caused but debris left on the road by a building site exit. He's been advised that the building site contractors are liable but he needs to prove this. It's not a straight forward case. It would seem, until he gets the builders insurers accept liability, he's stuck with a courtesy bike (which he may have to pay a daily hire charge for over and above storage fees & the excess.) I don't really understand the whole excess thing. I've been crashed into, clear cut case, it wasn't my fault but when they came to take my car for fixing they asked for the excess, I told them since I wasn't liable, my excess was moot. Anyway, its just being out of pocket to the tune of five hundred smacks, for however long it takes to sort out, not to mention being deprived of property. Thanks again for the responses.

I imagine he did sign an agreement of some sort, but it would be for the excess. My question is, can they hold property to ransom given the situation. He's going to claim of a third party insurance so it'll take time. Its the legality of the garage holding on to his property which isn't really related to the excess. Also, the grey area of him still having the courtesy bike. The guy is only 18, £500 is too much for him. I can't really think of an adequate comparison. Although, I suppose its a wee bit like if you prang a courtesy car, can the garage keep your car until you've coughed up for the damage? Thanks again.

Hello. Quick question. Can a garage withhold property in lieu of payment. Summary: I person had the use of a courtesy bike while their own was in for warranty repairs. He had an accident (not his fault) on the courtesy bike, now the garage want him to pay the £500 excess before they return his bike. (He still has the courtesy bike.) A) He's claiming from another party for the costs B) The £500 isn't related to work carried out on his bike C) The garage might start charging for storage and possibly for rental on the courtresy bike. It seems dubious to me but it's not really straight forward. Any clues gratefully received. Thanks Paul

The 'moving the goalposts' and 'changing things' was purely a 'what if' scenario in terms of that last point I was making. I wasn't saying that they'd done either in my case. I'll need to rethink this in light of what you've said. Its one of these things that has no gotten to the point where I can't easily afford to clear the arrears anyway which is partially my own fault. Thanks for the advice.

I think opinions on what constitutes poor service and the morality of the situation will differ from person to person. On the points that aren't open to personal opinion though, the contract says any dispute would be settled in an English Country Court; can this be enforced or can I appeal to have moved to a Scottish civil court? I would say, going back to your final statement, there is every need for it. What is there to stop business' from signing people up to contracts then subsequently moving the goalposts or changing things to the point were the consumer is no longer getting the service they signed up for in the first place? It might be the case in law, but it seems to me a lot of debt is manufactured, we really do live in a country who's economy is debt driven. Thanks for the replies so far.

The poor service occured when I asked (for what I thought to be reasonable) assistance from the club. Is there no protection in contract law for this type of thing? For example, if the staff all of a sudden started ignoring members totally, could the member not cancel as they aren't getting the service which they are paying for. Is there nothing in consumer law that covers this? (If not, perhaps there should be.) To be honest, I'm ambivalent about the club, I quite liked it which is why I said I'd go back. But in this instance, the service was poor, they just refused to help.

Hi folks. This'll be my first post, oddly enough I was directed here from a motorcycle forum which is entirely unrelated to the problem I currently have, (well, I used a motorbike to get to where I'm having the problem with...) I'll try to keep it short. Basically I was a member at David Lloyd Leisure (I know, middle class territory, I probably have a bob or two but I don't. ) They have the usual 12 month contract which contractually you have to honour but here's what happened. In month five of my membership my monthly pay got fouled up and all my direct debits bounced, one of which was for David Lloyd Leisure (from now on to save typing: DLL ) I managed to sort the rest out getting some of the charges cancelled, I know DLL reapply for missed DD's mid-month so phoned to explain that there still wasn't any money in the account and if they tried again I'd be charged. I was met with a brick wall with "CLUB POLICY" scrawled on it, no matter what I said or how I said it, they kept saying 'club policy.' I ended up going on line and cancelling the DD at my end, and due to the pretty foul attitude of DLL staff and of course; the dreaded Club Policy, didn't go back to the club. As far as I'm concerned my membership ended on the last day of June and I never set foot in the club again. They wrote to me looking for payment after two months, I contacted them and said I wouldn't be returning and explained why; guess what they said... CLUB POLICY!! I'm now being persued for the remainder of the 12 months (*£528) by ARC Credit Management which is nice of them. I sent a letter offering a compromise, I'd come back for the remainder of the contract if they waived the months I'd not used the club but so far, had no response. I have the contract and it says the 12 months must be adhered to and any court action would take place in England (I live in Scotland.) My question is this: If the service they provide is so poor, can I end the contract early. Is there something in my Statutory Rights that I could use? Also, can they make me go to court in England given all this took place in Scotland, I'm more familiar with civil law here than south of the border... I did an internet search and DLL is famed for doing this, as the song says: 'You can check out, but you can never leave...' ;-) Sorry to be so verbose but I hate the thought of being bullied by a big corporate entity like this, it sits poorly on my mind. I've been reasonable through out and never abusive (not my way of doing things, prefer negotiation to confrontation.) Thanks in advance. Paul *Should read £528.