Hi Folks, Thought I'd give you an update and for those more recent posters here's my UKPC experience so far... I initially explained to UKPC that I was not the driver of the vehicle and so did not enter into any 'contract' but of course that didn't make any difference and after a while I began to get letters from Rossendales collect which I didn't reply to - even though I was sorely tempted! This went on for a while and I got several threats of a visit which of course never happened and now it's all quiet, I've not heard a thing for nearly two months. That's not to say that this is the end but my MP did bring up this issue with the DVLA for releasing my details and I got good support from Lawanswers.co.uk which gives free legal advice on just about everything. Also excellent advice from this site . So in my opinion there is absolutely no point in entering into any communication with anyone unless you really were the driver of the vehicle and did read the signs in which case you could still deny liability and hope that they don't have video or photographic evidence of you. I think the main thing that I've learnt is that writting letters to these leaches is utterly pointless. I really wanted to at first but you've got to chill out and not let them wind you up with their threats - this is what they want! If you really want to write letters then do so but send them to your MP and complain about the DVLA giving your details to private companies. IGNORE UKPC and their henchmen, well that's what I've decided. At the end of the day the choice is yours but I was and still am more than prepared to go to court to fight but only if they actually issue a court hearing against me. Good luck all

As if by magic the next instalment from Rossendales arrives! This time they have changed the format, quite why I don't know. It's one of those security envelopes like a wage slip that you have to fold along the lines and tear the perforations, it looks like this... Outstanding Amount: £135.00 WARNING - YOUR CREDIT RATING COULD BE SERIOUSLY AFFECTED You WILL be VISITED by a DEBT COLLECTOR PHONE IMMEDIATELY TO AVOID ACTION - WE ARE HERE TO HELP I've stopped LAUGHING now, the NEW format looks more like JUNK mail,... hang on a sec,... it IS Junk mail:-D

I have never replied to any letters from Rossendales collect, but in the early days I wrote several letters to UKPC because I felt I needed to. Total waste of time!! it's now been 3 weeks since the debt people threated me with a visit - 'in the next few days'. In my experience never respond to the parking company or any of their henchmen. If you really feel that you need to write someone then write to your MP. Here is the response I got from the shadow transport minister.... Your e-mail to Rt Hon David Cameron MP has been passed to me as the Shadow Roads Minister. We are well aware of the widespread anxiety amongst motorists about the way that their details are sold to parking companies. Of course, if this were not the case then many of these companies would resort to clamping as a way of extricating fines, which certainly would not be an improvement on the present situation. We are currently reviewing our policy with regard to this area and parking in general and feel that more scrutiny needs to be paid to the activities of some of these companies. If they do not comply with codes of practice and natural justice, then they ought to have access to these numbers withdrawn. We will be announcing a number of policies over the months ahead. Yours sincerely, Robert Goodwill MP for Scarborough & Whitby Shadow Transport Minister House of Commons London SW1A 0AA tel 020 7219 8268 fax 020 7219 8108

Below is an example letter that was sent to me by Lawanswers.co.uk Just in case anyone wishes to use/adapt this example I have received a parking charge notice under your reference [123456] To enable me to consider your claim, please advise of the following: 1 What evidence do you hold that shows I was parking in your car park over the allotted time? If you hold documentary evidence please provide copies of the same. As a private car park, any claim you have lies in contract and not in Statute. I could only be contractually liable if I personally parked a car in the car park. Mere evidence that a car registered to me was parked in your car park does not prove that it was the case that I parked it. 2 What are your charges for parking in your car park? If there are no charges then what are the contractual terms that you (your client) apply in relation to this car park. 3 Please provide me with a copy of any ticket you claim to have issued. 4 Please advise me how it is alleged I have breached any purported contract. In anticipation of receiving the documents requested above I would make the following comments: 1. As your claim lies in contract it represents a claim for damages for breach of that contract. Your penalty charge of £[??] bears no correlation to the damages you have allegedly incurred. 2. In light of the damages you have claimed, your claim represents a penalty charge and is consequently not recoverable in contract law. 3. It is my view that any contractual terms you rely upon to claim your penalty charge are unfair and consequently unenforceable pursuant to the Unfair Terms and Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 and the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977. Please refrain from any further contact regarding this matter unless and until you have answered each of the points above and where appropriate provided copies of the letters referred to. [if appropriate] I have found your letter distressing and put you on notice that any further attempt to demand monies from me without responding to my reasonable request for information as set out above, will result in my solicitors being instructed to bring proceedings under the Protection from Harassment Act which entitles me to an award of damages together with a non-harassment order. In that event my solicitors will also seek the costs of those proceedings. Yours faithfully

You sound as cynical as me!! but you're right. Thankfully at least there are some people like us who take a stand and say no to these gits

Hi All, I recently wrote to my MP regarding the DVLA releasing my details to private companies. I said to him that they have no regard for my personal details and pass them on to other parties (for a profit) who now harass me for money and send me threatening letters. He has agreed to take the issue up for me so I thought that if enough people raise this issue with their MP's there may be a chance that something will be done about it. So folks have a look on the internet for your MP's email address and get typing!!:grin:

In my quest for more answers/info someone recommended a website for free legal advise so I thought I'd give it a try, here is their response.... You have committed no offence and have been ticketed by a private company whose tickets have no validity unless a case is brought at the expense of the issuer in a civil court. Under no circumstances pay them anything for pictures or get involved in any so-called "appeals procedure" nor should you disclose who was driving at the time. The "charge" is alleged under contract law. What you have is a bill (which you can contest) from a private parking company who allege you have breached their terms and conditions by parking and/or overstaying on one of the sites they manage. It has no status in law. These matters are covered by contract law and so they need to prove a contract has first been created and then that you have breached it. They attempt to create the contract by the signage they erect which should be clear in content and also unmissable. You should not have been able to enter or leave the car park without seeing the signs. If you entered the car park and left immediately on seeing the signs the court might agree that this was because you didn't wish to enter the contract. The terms of the contract need to be set out in detail on the signs along with the penalty for the breach. If you believe you did not breach the contract as outlined on the signs then you would have an excellent chance of winning in court if it ever got that far. Similarly if the parking company are attempting to fine the keeper of the vehicle but they were not the driver then the case would fall unless they could be shown to be definitely in the vehicle and thus a party to the contract. You have no responsibility to tell them who was driving (even if it was you). With reference to the cost of breaching the contract then the law is clear that any penalty should be defined beforehand and should not be punitive. The courts would usually seek that this was broadly in line with the loss to the company and the reasonable cost of enforcement and may well require that they prove this. The reality is that they will almost certainly not attempt to enforce against you through the courts. They realise that the court is the first place you will get a fair hearing and that is the last thing they want. Instead they will use debt collectors who will endlessly threaten imminent litigation, references to credit agencies, personal visits, bailiffs and the sky falling on your head. However these companies are mainly "letter factories" and it is very unlikely any of this will actually turn up. There is no possibility of any credit reference agency taking any debt claimed by such companies seriously unless they can obtain a CCJ against you. Try adapting and using our free response letter (attached) and under no circumstances relent. You should not enter into any further correspondence with them and harden yourself to a barrage of post which you should throw in the bin. Under no circumstances should you believe threats of "last chance before legal action" or "legal action imminent". That is their stock in trade. The only response you should make is if you actually receive proceedings from the County Court when you need to come back to us. However this is very rare. In the many thousands of cases we have knowledge of, this has only ever happened once. Similarly if you cannot cope with the endless harassment come back to us and we will take action against them on your behalf... Please come back to us on this or if you have any other legal matter we can assist with. It would also be a good idea to bookmark http://www.lawanswers.co.uk in case you need free advice on any other legal question in the future. We trust this information helps and that you found our free service comprehensive and useful. We answer questions on any legal matter so please tell anyone else who you think might benefit from our free assistance. So there you have it, I guess it's nothing we don't already know but it's nice to get another opinion. I will keep you all updated when the next letter of doom arrives from Rossendales and once again my thanks to all who have offered advice from this forum.

Hi All, Today I received the 4th letter from Rossendales and it looks like they are trying to turn up the heat, this one is not nice at all.... ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Dear Finefight NOTICE OF VISIT Further to our previous communications, you should note that your file has been passed to one of our debt collectors who will visit your home within the next few days to obtain full payment. YOU CAN AVOID THIS ACTION BY: Sending full payment to this office by return of post Call 0845 644 4499 (Local Rate) within 48 hours to make arrangement for payment. PLEASE TAKE NOTICE your account will NOT be overlooked. We intend to obtain full payment. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- I have totally ignored them so far but my concern is that I'll get some nasty looking monster turn up on my doorstep upsetting the missus. So, just a few questions to ask the forum... 1. Has anyone else had a letter like this? 2. Has anyone had a visit? if so what happened? 3. Should I still continue to ignore them? 4. Should I consider seeking legal advice? thanks

Thanks guys, I needed to hear that. If I had committed the parking contravention they're trying to get me on I would have probably paid up, but I wasn't using that car on the day of the "offence" and since (as I understand it ) I am under no legal obligation to provide them with the details of the driver there's no way I'm going to pay them. So thank you everyone, the support is very much appreciated.

Hi All, The saga continues and the next letter has arrived, it reads as follows... Please note that this is our FINAL DEMAND for payment in respect of the above detailed debt. As you have not paid we are entitled to issue legal action through your local court, which may result in:- . judgment/decree being entered against you. . An order being made to secure the debt against any property you own . Your personal effects being sold to repay the debt We will also instruct them to ask the court to award statutory interest and add legal costs which will significantly increase your debt. Any court judgement/ decree last for 6 years and will severely affect your ability to obtain credit in the future. It is in your interest to make full payment immediately or contact us with your proposals for payment Well, this is starting to pi** me off big time. How dare they threaten me!! sell off my personal effects - I'm really getting the dog about this, are they really going to try and take me to court?? Well, I seriously was thinking about phoning them up and giving them a piece of my mind. What should I do now? still ignore them? (Had a really bad day at work too so now I'm really fed up!!)

well I guess a death treat would be if ukpc died! that would be a treat for us all! I really should spell check my posts in future!!:grin:

Hi All, Well, as I suspected I got the next '7 days to pay' letter from Rossendales - much the same as everyone else. whilst I'm tempted to send a sarcastic reply to their 'DEATH' threats!! I really can't be bothered with them. I will however continue to keep posting so everyone can keep up to date with how things are progressing - this is far more important as I hope that with every experience added to this forum it will help others to stand firm and not give in to these bullies, after all it was this forum that gave me the info and support I needed. Cheers all:D

Well, I've had a final demand from UKPC, but not a final demand from the debt collectors - they just advised me not to ignore their letter and told me that it was in my interest to make full payment, oohhh I'm scared!!! They sound like gangsters after their 'protection' money!!! I wait to get a final demand from the debt people, then maybe the final, final demand followed by the final, final, final..... I wonder how long they'll string this out for until they give up? Is there anyone on the forum who has completed the process from beginning to end, if so how long did it take and how many final demands were there (that includes final, final demands and final, final final demands!) Maybe there should some forum awards for the person who has A) had the most tickets from these crooks and not paid a penny and B) the person with the most final demands!!!

Hi Oatbag, If like me you've read this forum then you will understand the whole thing is based on contractual law, they have to prove that you were the driver of the vehicle at the time of the alledged contravention. Normally their signs states things like "DO NOT PARK HERE UNLESS YOU AGREE TO THE CONTRACTUAL CHARGES LISTED" and "CONTRACTUAL AGREEMENT, THIS LAND IS STRICTLY FOR THE PARKING OF MOTOR VEHICLES THAT COMPLY WITH THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS LISTED BELOW" ....blah blah blah I've had one 'Charge Certificate', one 'final reminder', one letter after I wrote to them where they tried to get me to implicate myself and one letter from the debt collection company - Rossendales. They can send as many letters as they like but until I get something that's legal and proper i.e. a court hearing then I'm not paying a penny and will continue to ignore them. Stand your ground!

I hope after their waste of paper & postage they finally give up! shame it's financed by those people who are frightened into paying and I have to say that if it wasn't for the info on this forum I would probably have paid myself, it does make me angry that these conmen are getting away with it:-x I'll let you all know when the next letter arrives TTFN