Well, just to let you all know - both my set asides were successful - yeah ! Thanks for all your support. Fundamentally, without a clearly enforceable agreement that was proven against the alleged debts....the judge, (begrudgingly) had to follow s78/s87-88 of the Act. I think that as litigant in person with a senior partner as opposing solicitor (gulp), we did ok in the end.....not that the judge was happy to help...far from it ! The poor solicitor was told it would only be 10minute hearing, with very little prep, little valid documentation...felt sorry for him in the end; it was nearer 2 hours ! ...and yes 42man costs awarded too... gonna go and crash now.....absolutely exhausted. thanks again everyone.....be back to help others later.

Oh VB, well done, congratulations. well pleased for you :grin:

Hi VB, just make sure you take all of your documentaton. and use as much of it as necessary. I suppose it all depends how the CCA argument is received by the judge, then the fact that documents were not properly served - if they have falsified legal documents, then that cannot look good, although I don't know if it would have any bearing on the legal argument. maybe someone else has a view ? Will be thinking of you and wishing you well. 42 man, you have a view ?

VB - CCA request can be made at any time. If they had followed pre-action protocol correctly in the first place, then they should have provided ALL correctly served and valid documentation before or when issuing SD, which in itself is abuse of process for recovery of unsecured credit, instead of going to the County Court for CCJ. It is not a spurrious argument. You are askingtoverify that EVERYTHING that they rely on is in order. Stick to the facts and the law that supports it. Good luck again.

Wel done MM. I know it was while ago, but hadn't seen the conclusion. Congrats.

ellie, congratulations - very pleased for you. hope this helps others along the way. :-D

Vikingbird, what is the latest ?

Urgent help required please Hi all, latest is that I have been sent a 'copy' of credit agreement, which I have posted to.. Beanpole_09/CCA - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting (blanked out personal details and dates), so would appreciate anyone having a look and making comments. This has all happened after the 12 and 30 day deadlines passed, so am I right that it can still only be enforced in a court ? It looks like a faxed copy, rather than original, so I will still be asking for true copy to be produced. No proven assignment, nor default notice yet provided. Urgent advice please. thanks

Hi, at least you've started ball rolling, well done. My best advice is to read, read, read this forum and the relevant Acts. Learn as much as you can, so that you can submit a more structured argument - it will make you more confident and keep the hearing focussed. Some more experienced advice should be along soon !

Hello all, update below. Any comments would be very welcomed to help in my next steps. The hearing for my set aside application is now October. Despite repeated requests for credit agreement and all other essential documents, both the 12 and 30 day deadlines have now passed. So the other side are now in default and the alleged debts should now be unenforceable ! I have told the other side that they should withdraw. I have had nothing back, except copy of the court date....so it seems they still intend to proceed. I also sent S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) to original creditor; lots of data but no copy of credit agreement here either, so have asked again to confirm that none exists. I'll prepare skeleton argument to help at the hearing. Please post any thoughts. Thanks

Hi ellie....if I am reading you correctly, you asked for them to provide the original CC agreement and they have not complied within 14 working days.....yes they are in default of s78(1) & (6), so cannot enforce without and .....if still not after further 30 days.....they have committed ana offence - is this not enough for the court to strike out on its own ??

Vikingbird.....good luck with the hearing....will be thinking of you and wish you the very best......post an update when you can.. .. just try to remain calm in the hearing, take your time and try to focus on one point at a time so that it is easier for the judge to follow your argument... ...be confident in your facts in front of the judge...it is the DCA that must deliver up the CCA as per s78 to be able to enforce the alleged debt....and if they haven't formally proven the assignment, even more fuel to your fire. finally.....don't be put off if anyone from the other side does turn up and do not assume anything....if they do, then perhaps worth asking in front of the judge, who they are, what is their position (job/company) and in what capacity are they there.....after all, they will know who you are.....all perfectly reasonable and that way you will be able to refer to them by name, if needs be later. Best of Luck.

Wrong ellie.....do not get into a discussion with them...only via letter correspondence and only based o facts. They are wrong, this is insufficient proof. DO NOT be put off. They must produce documents as per the law; s78 Consumer agreement 1974. You are 'in dispute' and they need proof. Read up on all other similar cases so you can be confident on the argument. What is your original thread called, otherwise Vikingbird's own thread will get confused ? see my thread also. Beanpole

Thanks to all for the kind thoughts... hmmm...hearing was adjourned, so just have to wait for new date to be set now....solicitor did show on their side tho'. Ill be watching to see how you all get on.

Part 3.4 I think you refer to is under CPR, and is worth looking up !

Thanks for postings....I will read up on CPR and prepare as suggested. Beanpole

Ok will do thank you. Given this stage is my application for set aside against an SD, rather than them taking me to court for payment (no CCJ application ever taken place), there haven't yet been any Particulars of Claim...just the SD and now their defence against the set aside...is the citing of this bit of CPR relevant at this point ? thanks again

Many thanks for this quick reply and full content. I will take all of this onboard. There are only copies of other correspondence attached to the witness statement, referring to the the key documents that they are purporting to, no original agreement or default notices...they are waiting on them. I am sending a reply letter now to point out that they are in default under the 12 day rule (quoting the specific sections of CCA), such that the alleged agreement cannot be enforced (and of course the 30 day rule). Their argument that there has been no breach of s78 CCA is refuted. I will re-iterate again all that they need to produce...and if any doc's are brought along to court, I would ask for an adjournment to examine. Thanks again.

Thanks for responding to this Citizen. Will do. Beanpole

Very Urgent Help please ! I have had a response. Letter received from LARGO, submitting to Court a witness statement, opposing my application to set aside the SD. They acknowledge my CCA request for documents but argue that as it is still within a month of receipt of request, that they are not in breach of s78 CCA 1974. There is no mention of the 12 day deadline. Furthermore, they argue that because my request for documents was after serving the SD, that they are not enforcing agreements, whilst in default of s78 (but in opposing the set aside, are maintaining the ability to do so). They have submitted evidence, which is downloaded from threads on this site, arguing that I have mistakenly used a skeleton defence for trial and that there is little relevance. The submission to the court, argues that my application does not bring forth any triable issues. To date, they have not produced any original Credit agreement, default notice etc, although reference is made via other correspondence. Any urgent advice on what do now please.

Hi there all, Miss Muppet, sorry to hear your experience wasn't that good. Yes, my original affidavit with set aside application was sent by the court to the other side. Separately, when I submitted my full defence against the SD to the court last week, I asked and was told to send a copy myself to the other side...which I did, Special Delivery and hence signed for. As of today (Mon, hearing on Thurs), still no documents from 'them' since my CCA request.... Hopefully nothing will show up before Thurs. Ill keep you all posted. Beanpole.

many thanks for posting....yes I will ask for adjnmt if they do produce doc's....and will update everyone after Thursday. again, thanks to the contributors and for this forum !!! Beanpole....

Hi Vikingbird, I'm just posting to a few others that I have been following.... I'm in a very similar position....L&R/Phoenix from HSBC assigned debts issued a personally served Stat Demand for payment, threatening bankruptcy proceedings, without having taken any other court action first.......except my set aside hearing is this Thursday (17th) ! I CCA'd L&R, nothing back yet....the 12+2 working days falls on Weds ! So I have argued a full defence on grounds of no documents.... Did you ever get a letter direct from Phoenix, or has it just been L&R ? I will let you know what happens at Thursday's hearing and if they turn up ! Dreading any paperwork coming through the letterbox from them in next few days !! Good luck with your case anyway. Beanpole

Hi there Shawn, I have been tracking your thread (and also Vikingbird/Miss Muppet) and reading with interest and wish you all the best... just to let you know that I have set aside hearing on Thursday (against LARGO / Legal & Receivables / Phoenix Recoveries....for an alledged debt, supposedly assigned from HSBC). I will let you know how it goes and what happens, in case its of help. I have used advice from 42man/Nicklea and others and submitted not only an argument in my 6.4/6.5 application, but also filed a full defence against the Stat Demand at the court, 7 days ahead of hearing. I seem to be pretty unlucky that when I applied to my local Court for a set aside hearing, that it was booked in to be heard within 14 days.....so all of this has been a real rush.....I just hope the next few days see no documents appearing from the other side and no-one turns up on Thurs ! All the best. Beanpole

OK, thanks to all your help so far..... Miss Muppet, I hope all went ok at your daughter's hearing. In my case... I did submit a full defence to the Statutory Demand, at the Court on Thursday; 7 days before the hearing for my set aside application and sent copy to the 'other side'. I have no idea if they have a solicitor, or indeed if they will turn up at the hearing, so I sent copy of the defence to the person at L&R that issued the SD anyway. It is all a bit tricky as the timings overlap....Monday will be the 12th working day since they received my request for info' under CCA, the court hearing is Thursday, so it still possible that I will get a bunch of paperwork between now and then (which will be exactly 12+2 days). I assume that, as my defence submitted is based on them not having produced all documentation, that if they do deliver these documents, that I can ask for adjournment. I will still argue that the account is still in dispute, on the basis of the amount owing.... which will probably include penalty charges. Each of the two SD's issued had £150 added for the personal delivery, done at the sme time, by the same person. Anyway, if anyone has any more advice, my set aside hearing is on Thursday...... thanks Beanpole.