Well, a final update! A fortnight after assuring me that they didn't need evidence, & I was still going to be going to court etc if I didn't pay, I received a letter this morning: "We were concerned to receive an enquiry from the British Parking Association regarding incorrect evidence appearing against the above case" ...."the situation arose from an extraordinary system fault" ....."The parking notice has accordingly been cancelled and you may treat the matter as closed" "We would like to sincerely apologise for the negative experience that you had with our company (sic) for any inconvenience or disquiet this matter may have caused" Glad that I found this site, otherwise I'd have probably just paid the day after my car was ticketed! Cheers!

this was my emailed response: "I am in receipt of your letter dated 13/2/09. Be advised for a second time, as already stated on the 17/12/2008, that the incident did not occur. Do not contact me again."

So, here's a bit of an update (sorry Kitty11 for hijacking the thread!) Despite them not yet identifying the driver, or having any evidence that any faulty parking occured, I received a letter which basically says that they don't need photographic evidence "Although photos may provide additional evidence and are widely used in parking enforcement, it is not a necessary requirement to ensure that a notice is valid". So, it seems, that they can just make up a 'Civil Parking Notice' (and refer to it a civil penalty notice) and expect vehicle owners to give them money. The letter states that they are in receipt of my correspondence, which is strange, as the only correspondence that I have had with CPP is to let them know that the incident did not occur, and tell them not to contact me again. They do not say which correspondence they are referring to! It could be the correspondence with the DVLA, the CAB, The BPA the Traffic Penalty Tribuneral or with the security manager where I work! They also (so many errors !) state that they've got clear white parking signs that are 1200 x 1200mm, which list the parking conditions. Now, I haven't had my tape measure out, but I assume that they're referring to the signs photographed in this thread: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/parking-traffic-offences/139812-civil-parking-notice-keele.html ...which are definitely rectangular ...and so cannot be the 1200x1200mm signs which they reference. then they say "Additionally, the green signs adjacent to the ticket machines clearly contain the comment 'cars parked in incorrect areas or areas not designated as car parks ... may be issued with a parking notice.'" I can neither confirm or deny that that's true, as I've never read the green signs. I've only ever seen the white ones. I'm not in the habbit of driving round car parks and reading every single sign to see if it has 'additional' criteria for parking! It's all irrelavent anyway, as they haven't addressed the driver yet, just me, as the RK. "Your vehicle was parked causing an obstruction and was therefore a potential hazard. We advise you to forward the sum of £50 within 14 days from the date of this letter in order to conclude the matter" 'If payment is not received the case will progress further'. As I see it, the matter has already been concluded! There is no 'case' to answer.

More questions ...which I think I know the answer to, but there's not much info out there. I have a copy of the request that was sent from Compex Ltd (acting as an agent for the Car Parking Partnership / Liberty Services) to the DVLA for the reg. Keeper details of my car. There is a section on the DVLA request that says: "Please provide a full explanation why you want the information and how it will be used" ..to which the Senior Processing Clerk from Compex has responded: "Please see attached letter. All vehicles on attached list have been issued with Civil Penalty Notices for being in breach of stated terms and conditions as signposted. Keeper details are sought to pursue payment of these penalty notices" Q: Civil Penalty Notices ...I understood that they have to be issued by the authorities. Is that right? If so, then can I take issue with the DVLA releasing my details to a company who are mis-representing themselves?

Well, I had a letter through on Friday threatening all sorts of things. Basically, it seems that if they don't get their £50 from the Driver/Keeper/Hirer (???) then the world is going to end. There's a reference which I typed into their website, which they said would show the 'Evidence' of whatever it is that I'm supposed to have done. There were four lovely images of the good old Black Vauxhall Zafira ...which is a real shame, as I have only ever driven one Vauxhall ...& that was an M-Reg Cavalier, which went to the scrapyard in 2006! I did some 'screen dumps' to use as my own 'Evidence' if it ever comes to court. 'That's not my car your honour'!!! Oh dear!

in the local press today: Students fined for parking on campus| Keele University | Stoke and Staffordshire news

(post edited - I think I went off on a tangent!)

Thanks Lamma. I kept the plastic sticker as 'evidence' if it was ever required. I still haven't heard anything from them though (It's 35 days ago that my car was ticketed) ....I just wish they'd get on with it! Otherwise, I've done all this research for nothing!!!!

Thanks for that. I've got another 'query' - sorry. I just like to be prepared! The sticky holder that they fixed to my windscreen said that it was an offence for anybody other than the driver to remove it. I've read on here that it's not anything of the kind, but I was wondering if anybody has an explaination as to why?

Thanks Kitty11, I might take you up on the offer of your letters if/when I hear anything! I think I'm going to take the route of asking for evidence of who was driving at the time - just for fun really! They couldn't help us out with CCTV footage when a friends car got bumped on the car park, so I'm guessing that they won't have any images of the driver who parked 'outside a marked bay' either ....whoever he or she may be!!?? Am I right in thinking that in order to pass a 'debt' on to a debt collection agency, they need to take things to court first? I have no intention of paying them anything, and intend to include details of any money used on stamps on my next Keele expenses claim form & see if they notice! There was a similar incident in April up at the UHNS where a lady called 'Leah Hickman' made it all the way to court - only for it to be quickly ruled her favour as it was deemed rediculous to fine people who had already payed to park at a place of work. Unfortunately, I can't find the story on the Internet (12th April in the S-o-T 'Evening Sentinel'), but if anybody else knows how to find it, it makes an interesting read!

Hi Kitty11, I am in the same situation, although I have only just received my ticket - so haven't had any letters through yet. I'm just wondering what happened with your ticket. Is it still ongoing? ...& is the University where you work Keele? It sounds too familiar to be anywhere else!

Yes, you are correct. We (collectively) asked the question to the head of security. The response was that they didn't know, or monitor how many permits were issued, but that the number of permits issued isn't an accurate 'guage' of how many people are parking as not everybody works the same hours, and some staff only work term time, and that most car parks are also pay & display for non-permit owners anyway, and so there's no point in monitoring how many permits are issued! I guess this is where it all gets a bit political, but basically, I agree that the fact that there are more cars than spaces whould invalidate a parking ticket if they expect staff to come to work.

Hi again. Sorry, I don't know what the tickets say. My two work colleagues who got ticketed have paid up!!! (I haven't received one ...yet!) I guess this is more of a 'what if' now. Maybe I'm just wasting time!? I just want to be fully armed if I get a ticket, as there are more cars than spaces, and so I'm sure I'll end up with one at some point.

Hmm! I just read the signs that have been put up. It seems that they are wise to the 'Penalty' & 'Fine' words. The signs say that "By parking you are contractually agreeing to pay a parking ticket to the value of £50" Is that a binding contract?

Thanks Barnsley Boy That's just what I wanted to hear! It's interesting to find websites, and this forum, that have a wealth of information. It makes me wonder why more people are unaware (or choose not to try and become aware!) of what they are dutifully paying 'fines' for! Thanks for the responses TwinPig

Thanks pin1onu! It's been a long time since I started here, and I'd imagine that I probably signed something when I was first employed here. I have no problem with paying for a parking permit. It's just that previously, cars with parking permits have been allowed to park, and only those without permits have been issued with a warning notice. The 'penalty' is £50, or £25 if paid within 14 days.

Hi All, I'm new to the site & this is my first post. I've read all of the advice about private parking 'fines' , but I think this is an unusual set of circumstances. I work at Keele University (I've read the other thread about Keele too!). They have outsourced their civil parking enforcement to 'Liberty Services'. As employees, we are required to display a valid permit, payment for which comes out of our salary. Recently, cars that ARE displaying valid permits have been ticketed (£25) for parking 'outside marked bays' - this includes parking on the roadside where there are no yellow lines of any description. Although this has not happenned to me yet, it has happenned to two of my colleagues. My query is this: Can the employer, or Liberty services, pursue a fine/debt collection from one of it's own employees for parking at a place of work 'outside marked bays' despite having a valid parking permit? It seems a bit of a liberty to make us pay for parking without providing sufficient spaces, and then charge us for parking illegally when there is no alternative. I look forward to any responses with great anticipation. Thanks