OK - here are the details: Loan of £15000 with first plus taken out on 20 March 06. PPP loan taken with this - insurance amount - £3673.50. Total loan - £18673.50 I refinanced with 1st plus on 26 Sep 2006 loan amount £46000, PPP loan £11265,40! Part of the £46000 is paying off the previous loan/insurance. I am not sure what the figure is they charged for the 'redemption of the previous loan, so I need to find out that figure either in a phone call or by SAR, if I can't get my hands on the paperwork. Am still trying to work out if I can go the 'mis-sold' route as I can't remember what was said to me on the phone and what I said to them exactly. If I can't do that, is it still possible to get a reasonable refund of the first loan amount, as it was refinanced after 6 months and I'm pretty sure that most of he premium was 'lost/swallowed up' in the refinancing. Also - if I cancelled the existing policy for £11265.40, would I get a reasonable refund due to the new FSA guidelines or do I still need to go the mis-sold route? One other point - have just found the document for when I took out insurance for my main mortgage - I may try to go the misselling route with this as well, but as a point of interest, the premium for a monthly benefit of £1315 (for 12 months) was £4471.03 taken out in july 05- semms ridulous that a mere 14 months later, the insurance amount for a £373 a month paytment was £11265, NEARLY 3 TIMES MORE! Anyway, that's it for now - apologies for the rambling message, look forward yto any feedback Cheers Moo7777

Hi Alan - thx for this - will need to locate all paperwork now.........do you think it will make a difference to the claim if I settle the 2nd first plus loan before reaching a settlement, or will it make no differece either way if the loan is still active or paid off........... I am employed with a good deal on sick pay (full pay for at least a year) and also run a business with my wife (so self-employed as well) so need to look into that aspect of it. as to whether it was mis sold ir not. It may be that it was mis-sold to the extent that I only needed insurance to cover my self-employed work, not employed, so only needed half the amount of cover. Either way, the PPI will have lasted 6 months on the first loan and 12 months on the second so there must be some sort of refund due even if I don't go the mis-sold route. Cheers moo7777

I should have said thaT I have trawled through the columns here and my main point is: 1 should I cancel the PPI and try and get a refund? 2 should I refinance and then claim back afterwards 3 should I try and go along the 'I was mis-sold' the policy route? Thanks Moo7777

Hi all - a bit of history - I took out a loan with first plus in around April 2006 - with a lump sum insurance amount of around £4000. in October 2006 I refinanced that loan (a 'top-up') for £45000, with a lump sum insurance of around £9000 - when they refinanced, the original £4000 was swallowed up in the new deal - no rebate or anything. I want to know if I can cancel the new PPI (£9000) and get a rebate, and at the same time get some sort of rebate on the original £4000. The second policy I get back the premium if I don't claim in 5 years, however I don't know whether I need it as I have a very good insurance scheme at work. I also can't remember the exact conversation with the salesman, so don't know whether I was 'mis-sold ' the policy. I may also want to re-finance the loan again and don't want another lump sum insurance amount to get swallowed up in the deal. The amount I need to pay off the loan is £55 000!!!!! Any help would be greatly appreciated. I will go away and try and get exact figures/dates. Moo7777

at least a load of people out there have been succesful........! (Knew I should have started this a few weeks earlier!)

All change today it seems...............OFT taking the banks to court...........could take a while now - it seems the FSA is allowing the banks to suspend deleaing with claims while the case is heard......... Oh well...................... moo7777

OK - am going for the gentle approach - see below (it's only just over two weeks till the FSA dealine, so if it goes to a court claim, will not be too long behind my original schedule.) I will email Sandy again after a week to let them know I haven't gone away.............. Moo7777:) Dear Mr Watt I write further to my previous letters and emails in relation to my claim. In relation to your email dated 17 July I am sending this letter recorded delivery and also attaching to an email should the delivery to your office be delayed. After considering the contents of your two emails to me on the 16 and 17 July I have decided to postpone court action until 9 August 2007. Under FSA rules, this is the date by which you have to respond to my claim. Whilst that is the date by which you have to respond, I would very much hope that you will be in a position to respond prior to this date. My claim is for £2172. If you could ensure that this sum is paid into my bank account by 9 August 2007 there will be no further action from me. I am once more enclosing a schedule of these charges with this letter. I look forward to hearing from you. Yours sincerely Moo7777

just penning my next letter - does anyone know if Sandy Watt is a Mr/Mrs/Ms? I have been addressing to Mr but have seen other references to Ms Thanks Moo7777

Hi - I have a feeling that you will need to send a separate request (and £10) for each account - others may know more - and there may be info in the FAQ sections on this site.......good luck!

thanks, both, for your input - it's been a long day at work.....just back, so will sleep on it (after a beer or two, maybe.) Decision time tomorrow (nothing like putting it off!) moo

cool news - hope the wine was good.........and the head this morning.......?! no probs using my thread - it's good to have news like that in the meantime, I have received the following mail from Sandy Watt: Dear moo7777 All mail for delivery to this Unit is dealt with by a 'central mail point', this includes Recorded Delivery, these are signed for by the staff ain that area. As already mentioned below, we will respond to your claim within the timescales, as set by the FSA. Should you decide to action within that period, then that is your decision. Regards Sandy Watt Everything I have read on this forum suggests that I should stick to my timescale, so will send an adapted letter in post nine above, tomorrow at close of business. 2 questions 1 - is it OK to continue with that letter and court if they are saying they haven't recieved my LBA yet? Or would the court look on it, that it had been delivvered, so why can't they find it? 2 - if the FSA have set these timescales, how come it is OK for me to set my own? IS it because by the time the court case will be well in action, they need to have made their decision anyway, so it just pushes it along more quickly? I suppose I am worried that court proceedings are imminent and feels a bit nerve-wracking....... Will post again when I put up the letter that I send. Best Moo7777

All sent off by email/attachments (copied below for interest - thought I might as well keep the pressure on......!) so will wait till end of business on 18 July before next follow up. Yanni - Don't spend it all at once.... and have one for me! Moo7777 Dear Mr Watt For your information and further to my letter dated 14 June, I sent a letter before action to you, which was dated 2 July 2007. This was sent recorded delivery and was signed for on 4 July. I am attaching a copy of the letter sent, together with a print out from the royal mail website track and trace which proves it was delivered to you. As this letter was delivered and signed for on 4th July, I still require you to take action as outlined therein, prior to July 18. I look forward to hearing from you. Yours sincerely Moo7777

SO..........sent off the following email: Dear Mr Watt I refer to my letter before action dated 2 July 2007 and as of today I have not received a response from you. My letter was delivered to you on 4 July 2007. I will therefore allow you till 18th July to respond. May I emphasise that if I do not hear from you within this time, I will continue my proceedings without further notice. I look forward to hearing from you. Yours sincerely moo7777 received the following reply Dear moo7777 On checking our database, I note that your claim was received here on 14 June 2007, there is no note regarding any further correspondence. Please be advised that, under FSA rules, we have 8 weeks in which to issue our response to your claim. We will respond within that period. Sandy Watt thinking now what to do........ his mail suggests that he has not received my LBA dated 2 July - is this delaying/confusing tactics? (I know it was deliered as I have seen the sighned for docu,net on royal mail.) I will obviously ignore the timescale......but..... Should I follow up by email or post? Should I send LBA again? or email them proof of deliery? Will think, but if anyone has any ideas, plz let me know. Thx Moo7777

Hi Yanni - thanks for checking up on me again! Good idea - will send an email today and if don't hear anything by the time the 2 weeks is up since was delivered (18 july,) will send letter. Best Moo7777

2 weeks have passed since my LBA sent to Sandy Watt and nothing from RBS at all (although letter was only delivered 12 days ago - it seems some people have had success with 1 further letter before court, which I have adapted for my situation. I am thinking of sending this as a final letter before starting court action in 7 days time.........if any one has a chance to look through to check/comment, I would be grateful. Thanks Moo7777 Moo7777 Etc etc Dear Mr Watt I refer to my letter before action dated 2 July 2007 and am disappointed that I have not received a response from you. This may be because you are under the impression that I will not issue a claim against you for the return the unlawful bank charges debited from my account. I am writing to inform you that this will be the next stage unless I receive full payment in the next 7 days of the £2172 detailed in my previous letter to you. I am once more enclosing a schedule of these charges with this letter. However, please accept this correspondence in accordance with my duty under the Civil Procedure Rules to continue to pursue a settlement without the need to invoke the time of the courts If you do not intend to defend your charges in court, but hoping that I will "just go away" I should to point out that this will not happen and you will incur further costs against you. Take note that I will draw the Court’s attention to the fact that you have not made any attempts at settlement in accordance with the overriding objectives of CPR. Furthermore I will submit this letter to the Court as further evidence of your intransigence with my case despite my attempts at settlement and the settling by your company of all other similar claims to date. Alternatively, in accordance with the overriding objectives of the Civil Procedure Rules I would like to give you the opportunity to settle this issue without the need to take the time of the Courts. My claim is for £2172. If you could ensure that this sum is paid into my bank account within seven days I will inform the court that this matter is settled. If you fail to do this or respond in any way within the next 7 days then I shall begin a claim against you for the full amount plus interest plus my costs and without further notice. Please do not waste any further time with something you do not intend to defend. Yours sincerely Moo7777

Hii - sounds like you're doing just the right thing - I'm a few days behind you - good luck - I'll race you to the finish line.........! Moo7777

Hi Yanni - thanks for checking - the address I copied from the top of the letter I recieved from Sandy Watt, so hopefully will be OK........... I did send recorded. Cheers Moo:)

LBA now sent (2 July) so will wait with baited breath...........

I have now drafted a letter before action, which includes sections from templates on this site that I feel were missing from my first letter. Any comments/alterations before I send on Monday would be really appreciated......... thanks in advance for any help moo:) moo7777 etc etc Sandy Watt Customer Relations Support Unit Retail Support The Cornerstone 60 South Gyle Crescent Edinburgh EH12 9WF 30 June 2007 LETTER BEFORE ACTION YOUR REF: xxxxxxxxx Dear Sir/Madam, ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxxxxx I am very disappointed that you have failed to respond adequately to my letter dated 14 June 2007. I now understand that the regime of 'fees' which you have been applying to my account in relation to direct debit refusals, exceeding overdraft limits and so forth are unlawful at Common Law and contrary to consumer regulations. If you say that they are not, then will you please demonstrate this by letting me have a full breakdown of the costs to which you have been put by as a result of my breaches, in order to reassure me that your penalties really do reflect your costs. Additionally, it has now been confirmed that your particularly high level of penalties are considered to be unfair per se by the OFT who reported on the 5th April 2006 and are therefore presumed to be unlawful in the absence of specific proof to the contrary. I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law. I am frankly shocked that you have operated my account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as my fiduciary. I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and I am writing this letter to you on the assumption that you will prefer to do this than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets. The charges total £xxxx, plus as I believe I have been unlawfully deprived of the money I have calculated £xxxxinterest at the statutory rate, the amount the court will award. I am enclosing an amended copy of the schedule of the charges which I am claiming. I have already sent you a copy of this in my original letter of 14 June 2007. The schedule enclosed with this letter is an amended version of that sent on 14 June. The charge on 18 Nov 2002 should be £20 not £30 as on the original schedule. My claim has therefore reduced by £10. I require repayment in full of this money . I will give you 14 days to reply to me accepting, unconditionally, my request in principle and letting me know a date by which I will receive payment. I will accept payment without interest should you settle within the next 14 days. Whilst acknowledging your letter dated 29 June 2007 and the contents therein I believe that these targets are more than sufficient for a large company such as yours with dedicated staff and departments. If you do not comply fully within 14 days then I shall begin a claim against you for the full amount plus interest plus my costs and without further notice. I additionally hereby request that you forward a copy of the Terms and Conditions that were in force at the time my account was opened, and any subsequent amendments to those Terms and Conditions. These are requested under CPR Pre-Action Protocol 4.6©, and should you fail to provide them, this will be brought to the attention of the court, should it be necessary to commence a county court action. Yours faithfully, moo7777

Hi - thanks for this - will get on and draft LBA - can you confirm that I don't need to ask RBS for copy of T+Cs as I can get from this site? Best Moo

congratulations - if only they were all that easy!

Hi all - hoping someone may be able to clarify a couple of issues I have with my claim. Claim started 23 May with a letter asking for statements (template from money saving expert.com) Received these within a week, so using the calculator on that site, worked out the charge amount of £2182 + £239.20 interest. Wrote on 14 June the folloowing letter (again from moneysaving expert) together with a schedule of charges: Dear Sir or Madam, Re. Account number: xxxxxxxx I am writing to request that you repay all the default charges that have been applied to my account. I do not believe these charges reflect the true cost to The Royal Bank of Scotland. The charges total £2182, plus as I believe I have been unlawfully deprived of the money I have calculated £239.20interest at the statutory rate, the amount the court will award. I therefore ask that you repay me the full amount of £2421.20. I have attached a full schedule of the charges and interest with this document. I look forward for a full response to this letter within 14 days. Yours faithfully, moo7777 Received the standard reply from Sandy Watt - thanks for letter/considering claim/respond within 6-7 weeks etc. I then found this site and the templates seem different/better. As the 14 days are up from my first letter, I now need to send the LBA - my questions are: 1 Does it matter that I listed the interest in the first letter (this site seems to suggest that you don't) 2 I have not asked for T+Cs yet - should I do at this stage? 3 Is there anything else I need to include on my LBA that I have missed/is wrong on my first letter? 4 I was going to adapt the template for LBA to include things that are on this site's first template not included in my first letter - does this make sense? 5 I made an error on my first list of charges - one charge of £30 I claimed was £20 referral/£10 royalties account charge - should I admit this in the letter and enclose a new version £10 lighter? Thanks in advance for any help you may be able to give Many thanks moo7777

Hi - my first post here - am reclaiming just over £2000 from RBS. I sent off £10 and statements came in a week - then wrote the letter asking for full refund and gave the 14 day deadline - heard back in a week, saying that they were looking into this and could expect to hear within 6-7 weeks. Is this delaying tactics? Should I wait for the 14 day dealine (which expires on 1 July) and then write again taking to the next stage? Any help gratefully received. Thanks