I was told this when their barrister and I met before the allocation hearing.

I didn't SAR them but I did send a CPR 31.14 request Their answer (as posted earlier) says they (as I read it) don't have supply the info as this will be included at the disclosure. Somehow this does not seem right to me!

V

Hi cB,

Sorry for the delay, but I managed to get a few days away.

Yes it is from the solicitors, and yes it makes "formal demand", and yes it asks for the "account balance as demanded above"

V

Hi cB,

I do have statements and the do include penalty/charges.

I haven't SAR'd them, they say that they sent a DN in August 07, this is the one I've not received. It will contain penalties and charges I'm sure.

I will no doubt get a copy of the DN - if they have one - at the disclosure stage. Suffice to say that I have letters showing different alleged balances!.

I have also just discovered that in the amended PoC's that the alleged DN was sent in August 07, but I have a letter dated May 07 saying "despite serveral reminders including the issue of a Default Notice". How does this work? How many times can you be be defaulted on the same account?.

By the way I was told by the opposition yesterday that despite the CPR 31.14 request they don't need to comply as all the docs will be available at the disclosure stage.

V

Thanks.

Quick update. It really WAS an allocation hearing, all done and over in 10 mins although we were booked for 30.

One point emerged though, regarding track allocation we are over the £15k mark. We, the opposition and I had agreed that if possible we go the fast track route. HH asked the other side if the claim included interest, yes she said!. Will, if they 'find' a DN and include the full sum (including interest) on the claim form affect the validity of the DN?

By the way the trial date is 20/25 weeks away.

V

OK, I'm of to Court today for my (allocation) hearing, wish me luck.

V

Hi all,

Just a quick thank you to you all for your help so far. I feel that I have just got to step back for a few hours to clear my mind before next weeks onslaught.

I will be back!.

V

Hi again cB,

That link says it loud and clear.

Thanks for finding that, I should have them on two fronts now!

V

Hi cB,

Thanks for the extra input, looks like I've a lot more reading to do!

Steven Hi, how do we get them to prove they sent a DN?

V

Hi cB,

I'll go through CPR 31 again, I must admit that my head is in a spin at the moment, it's all taking a while to sink in.

I'm not sure that they know what they're doing so it is confusing us as well!.

If you recall the court ordered a fully particularised PoC, that was sent to me. In that was a whole load of waffle and bumf. The bumf contained a microfiche of the application form, with my sig. no prescribed terms, a separate T's & C's, Credit Card brochure and statements-no DN. In fact the DN is given brief mention in para 16 of the PoC's you quoted earlier, but, as I say NO DN with the PoC.

As I asked earlier do they not keep, or are they not supposed to keep a copy of such an important document to be produced (if necessary) in court.

Have they shot themselves in the foot, does the Pope wear a funny hat.

Do you think the other more knowledgeables are out there.

V

Another question, does the letter,quoted in full in post 158 above, constitute a non-compliance with CPR 31.14?

V

Thanks chaps for the replies and re-posts.

I have just re-read 'Getting them to reveal...' I've got square eyes now!

Is it a legal requirement for them to comply with my CPR 31.14 request or do I just bang on about it at the (allocation) hearing? or should I file an N244. if so when.

Viano

Hi cB,

Thanks for taking the time to look through the thread.

I have a 30 mins. hearing next week and am wondering about the validity of their answer to my CPR 31.14 request. They had 7 days to produce docs or copies for inspection. The letter above was their reply. Can I use this against them?

Yes, I agree about the DN, they do not admit to having a copy, can I assume that, although they say that they sent one, that with no DN (or copy) we can't examine it for validity therefore no case. I ask because as you may have seen earlier in the thread that they initially claimed for a different card, and that I also have a claim in for unlawful charges, and also had a ruck with them (LTSB) over another couple of accounts held with that bank, that may or may not be in default, so we don't know what the alleged DN is for.

I know that's as clear as mud, but if you read it a couple of times I think it makes sense.

Patience and advice will be well received.

Viano

Learned advice wanted please.

In reply to my CPR 31.14 request I received a letter, I quote,

' We are wtiting to your letter dated ** *** **** requesting disclosure of documents under CPR rule 31.14. To deal firstly with disclosure of the credit agreement, we agree that this is a requirement of CPR PD 16 para 7.3. We have complied with this rule by attaching the relevant documents to the Amended Particulars of Claim, namely the "Application Form and Agreement" signed by yourself, the "Lloyds TSB Bank Credit Card Conditions" and the relevant card brochure which was serverd on you on the ** **** ****.

As to the question of further disclosure, this will be delt with in court on the ** ***. We will not be opposing disclosure and in fact will be asking the court to give the standard directions for disclosure and inspection. As to the points you raise in relation to CPR rule 31.14, the rule deals with inspection of documents, which follows disclosure.

If you have any questions in relation to law or procedure we suggest you seek legal advice.'

What now?

Points:-

1) The copy of the " Application & Agreement" is a microfische,

2) The "Terms & Conditions supplied were (are) on a completely different sheet, and not microfische.

3) I asked for a copy of the DN, although they say they sent one, I have never received one, and they don't appear to have, or admit to having a copy!-they DO say, in another document, 'It is not necessary for the Claimant to annex a copy of any default notice to the Particulars of Claim'.

As I ask-what now???

Viano

Hey Yeats,

I believe you should go, if for no better reason than, that if you don't they have the upper hand. Read again your holding defence, I believe it to be good-it worked for me!.

I'm in a similar position to you at the moment so I appreciate what you are going through, in my case I'm going because I have nothing to loose, but, we could win or at least get another crack of the whip.

I'm no good at encouragement, but its got to be worth a try.

Good Luck Tomorrow.

You can't win the lottery if you don't buy a ticket.

Viano

How much of a defence have you got together? If it is enough, or sounds strong enough, the way I read it you should (could) get your day in Court.

The Judge may take the SJ as bluster!

V

To get the jot & tickle on this search for Summary Judgement-Part 24.

V

Hi Yeats,

Did you have a Court date before you had the letter from the Court? If not:

Your Court date looks as though it is an Allocation Hearing-PHONE THE COURT (where the hearing is) AND ASK, you will hang on for ages but be patient, if it is an Allocation Hearing they will tell you. Just in case take all you can with you, all of your, notes case law, kitchen sink every thing AND INCLUDE THE COPY OF THE 'SUMMARY JUDGEMENT' I suspect this may be a tacky ploy.

Yes go to the Court, don't talk to the opposition except to say hello.

Viano

Thanks, I had to ask!

V

And if so to whom.

O.K. - Are they likely to ?

Hi Steven,

I was concerned that I'd had no communications ref witness statement and disclosure list etc so I phoned the court and was told that next weeks hearing was an allocation hearing! so as ever forewarned is forearmed.

The paperwork only states date & time to attend.

V

Hi All,

What happens at an Allocation hearing, and what do I have to take please.

V

Could I then say I've paid, but have no proof and, if they haven't received it hard cheese- I wish

V

Thanks for that, I will read and inwardly digest.

Are they not obliged to retain copies of such important documents?

V

Thanks Steven,

I have asked for that in my request.

So, if they don't have it or proof of it ......

V