Cant you not just give the old landlords contact details to the new agency and let them worry about it? maybe worth a try

I agree 100%, Ive been following this thread with mixed feelings, full points for the information provided, it has been a real godsend, and I tottaly applaude the OP for it no matter what thier motives. Its just a real shame it appears its due to an ego trip rather than any sense of moral obligation....frankly I think its a little twisted. I know a gift horse shouldnt be looked in the mouth, but from my perspective its akin to a super rich celebrity donating to charity and then getting upset when the tabloids dont praise them for being so selfless.

Hi again, A bit of news, T-mobile have failed to comply with the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request), giving the reason that they need us to confirm the old address. Red have sent another "auto-threat" We contacted trading standards, who refered us the the CSA (credit service association) who said to submit a complaint in writing. Now the issue it this, the actual bill red/lowell are demanding is under £150, so with all this time spent writing and recorded delivery costs, It is becoming uneconomical to keep jumping through hoops. Some things have come to light through going back over all the paperwork very carefully and cross referencing: My girlfriend did have a contract with t-mobile that was settled, and her credit file confims this. The bills for this rogue contract start immediatly after the above contract ended on its 12 month aniversary. The bills are entirely line rental, looking back over the account summaries provided, I now see why there are no call lists, because there were no calls ever made. no texts either. nothing. in very small print on each charge sheet, it says "calls....0.00, texts....0.00" etc. This is now starting to make more sense. t-mobile havent cancelled the contract after it finnished, even though her credit file states the initial 12 month contract settled. (there is nothing outstanding on her credit file). My girlfriends credit files confirm a vodafone contract was active (now also settled) from a few months before the first t-mobile contract was settled, so she has clearly ditched t-mobile and gone with vodafone. Now Red said in a previous letter, the contract they are persuing was not signed for, it was agreed by: Confirming consent to sales person Inserting SIM into handset Using the handset to make calls We now have reasonable proof, in my eyes, that the contract ended. There is also proof that no use of the phone took place, and it is likely that she never inserted the sim or gave consent to anyone, as she was happily using a new contract with vodafone at that time. All this can be proven beyond reasonable doubt by cross referencing her credit file with these account summaries that RED have provided, the summaries which show the contract was never utilised. My girlfriend has clearly moved on to a new service provider in good faith. So, Im now thinking we should just call thier bluff and openly invite them to take her to court, as we dont really want to waste any more money or effort on these jokers. Any comments? does it sound risky? Thanks.

I transfered a sum of money from my account to a reletives, to pay some money I owed, ( at the counter in Barclays) and I asked the clerk to check beforehand the account number matched the name as it was alarge sum, her reply was, if the name dosent match then the transaction wont go ahead. Thats what I was told by a Barclays clerk, and it does make sense that the bank is liable, as they credited an account with the wrong name. They should have queried it and the transaction should have failed. I would certainly persue the bank over this, weather they admit fault or not. Good luck.

I didnt even know gladiators was still going!!

Thanks for the tips, guys. Just to clarify, Yes, everything is always sent recorded. We have been using a handwriting style font to use as a signature, with the name printed beneath in a standard font, this method of signing has never been questioned, and it prevents the possibility of a real signature bieng coppied onto any documents, so we will contine using it for now as its never been questioned. Buzby I will make the alterations suggested, thanks. A postal order of £10 was supplied with the initial SAR, and has been aknowleged/accepted in thier letter. Right, thats all for now, thanks! we will get this fired off on monday...let battle commence! Charge!!!!!!

Thanks for that, On re-reading the letter thismorning, I was at work last night, they are not asking for more info, just requesting she contact customer services to advise them of her current address? yes, that right, the one they have just sent a letter to? They also seem to think we have only requested copies of bills, as opposed to all info they hold. What do you think of this draft, thanks Thank you for your response to my Subject Access Request under the Data Protection Act. Unfortunately I will not contact your customer services by telephone as I have been advised to conduct all communication in writing, to allow me to gather evidence for litigation that I am contemplating. You seem to have miss-interpreted what is in fact a very simple statutory demand, I have not merely requested copies of any bills, I have requested copies of ALL INFORMATION YOU HOLD that regards or relates to myself in its entirety. See my previous correspondence for more details. If you do not understand what is being requested, then I suggest you pass this request, along with my previous correspondence to a person within your organisation with the authority and knowledge to deal with it, as a matter of urgency. I’m sure I needn’t remind you of the consequences of defaulting on such a demand, the original 40 day limit I have set for you still applies. You already have my address, as you have replied to my original letter, but to make things simple for you here it is again:

Not sure he is in posession of the logbook, I will ask though, thanks.

T-mobile have replied to the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request), they asked to ring them to provide further information before they release data. Fair enough, but I am reluctant to tell my girlfriend to do this as she may be cajouled and it may constitute an admission or acknowlegment of the debt, Is there any way this can all be done by post?

Cheers for that, I will advise him.

Thanks, yep, ownership should be easy to proove, as my father purchased it from his neighbour and will have recipts of some kind plus the neighbour would come forward if nessesary. He then gave it to my brother....so technicly the car belongs to my father. They still kind of speak, so I think best bet is a single written/verbal request followed by a complaint to the police and the small claims route if nessesary. Does he need to speak to the DVLA? I would guess they wont really be interested?....

Hi peeps, Hope someone can help, its a rather sensitve problem.... My brother owns a car, but he cant drive so his girlfriend has the use of it. For insurance purposes he had to take his name off the log-book and put hers on. They have now split up, and she now seems to think she owns the car, which she hasnt paid a penny for. She currently posesses and has full use of the car. Obviously getting the car back is going to cause some serious aggro, so I was wondering if anyone has any advice on how to get the car back with minimum fuss. Thanks for any advice:)

Cheers, yes we are seriously contemplating this now. Got another letter, as follows: "Thankyou for your recent correspondance regarding the account. We have noted your comments but advise you that with the information we hold we belive you are infact our customer and therefore liable for the outstanding balance. We have sent statements (see letter in above post) from Tmoblie on xx/xx/xx ans have told you we cannot provide a copy of contract because non was signed. We ask that you contact our office to discuss this matter further. We trust this clarifies the matter and look forward to hearing from you. Yours..... Im very tempted to reply to this, asking them to provide this ellusive "Information" they hold.....and why they have not provided it yet. Also they have stated themselves that there is no written contract....? The other half of me tells me Im wasting my time, I think I shall just wait untill the SAR comes back from Tmobile (so ive got some real info) and ignore these clowns in the interim. Again, thanks for any comments....

Hi there, thanks for all comments so far.... T-mobile have been sent a SAR, however the only identifiable info we could use in the request is her(my girlfriends) name, and the DCA's reference number, so also included was a request saying that if they need more information no confirm ID, then please write back to us stating what(if any) further info is required. We have had no responce from Tmobile as of yet. Ok, here is a copy of the last letter we sent, both RED and Lowells got an identical letter: 20/03/08 FYI: A.Shepherd of RED and N.Beaver of Lowell: With regard to previous communications, reference xxxxxxxxxxxx Firstly, I would ask you to in future communicate under the same name, as it is apparent that you both operate under the same consumer credit licence. Sending duplicates of your spurious threats under different company names only serves to confuse the situation. I re-iterate that I do not acknowledge any such debt being owed to T-mobile. This statement has been made numerous times and you are now flippantly disregarding industry guidelines regarding pursual and legal threats related to debts that are under dispute. This has now become seious, and I ask you to cease and desist your unfounded demands for money from myself immediately, as this constitutes extortion. I am attempting to clarify this situation in good faith, and the only assistance I am getting from yourselves is further demands for money. As a result of this, I have now served T-mobile with a Subject Access Request under the Data Protection Act, ordering a full disclosure of all information they hold relating to this matter. Again I reiterate that you have no right to pursue this matter. Furthermore, according to correspondence from Red DCA dated 17/03/08, you state that no agreement was signed… yet in the attached information detailing agreement terms, it makes specific reference to an “agreement form” in the first paragraph under the heading “Main points of the agreement”!! There is clearly something amiss here, either your companies are being deceitful for the purpose of financial gain, or you are withholding information for the same reasons, or you are simply incompetent. I am aware of no mobile Telco that would issue a handset and set up a calling facility without proper agreement, identification and verification of the proposing customer. To suggest that this is the case is simply preposterous! I am now in a position whereby I feel that communicating with yourselves in attempt to clarify this situation is futile, therefore I will not enter into any further communication with Red or Lowell until such a time that T-mobile or yourselves can provide some information of substance, which I have repeatedly and justifiably requested to no avail. Again, you may postulate as vigorously as you wish, however no monies will be paid. Yours, RED then reverted back to thier templates file and replied with a standard "you owe us, now pay or else" letter. As far as I can see, I have done all I reasonably can to sort this out, where as the DCA have just kept asking for money. As stated in my letter to them, I now intend to just ignore them to see if they start legal proceedings. Does this seem reasoable? Again thanks for any input.

Hi, could you give anymore insight to this comment, as it may have some bearing with my girlfriends current wrangle, If your interested, its here: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/131061-please-help-lowell-dcas.html Cheers.

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Hi, the statements they have sent are not full bills with call lists, just photcopies of the girocheck payment things and the total ammount due, so we cant look up any of the numbers. Some of the summaries have been paid, but we have no bank details used for payment or anything, jst hope the sar from t-mobile shows somthing that can be verified oe way or another.

Quick update, RED sent us a barly legible copy of some generic t-mobile T's & C's, along with a very brief letter saying that no contract was signed, but inserting the sim into the handset meant my gilfriend is liable, can you pay us now, please. Now this is interesting, as I could just about read the T&C's and the first paragraph makes reference to an agreement form, yep, the agreement that RED say isnt signed/dosent exist. We now suspect that there is no agreement form, because she never took that contract, and that RED/Lowell are at best, mistaken. Not to mention that no mobile phone co.is just going to set up a call plan and give you a phone with no formal agreement. I will paste the full letter here when I get time. T-mobile have now been issued a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request), and both RED and lowell have been sent identical letters informing them of all the above whilst still disputing and accepting no liability. Got another letter from lowels, no aknowlegment of the SAR, or the dispute, just more demands for money. So is it reasonable to just ignore them untill t-mobile come up with the SAR informaton? What if t-moblie dont comply with the SAR? can I assume then,that there is no proof, and therefore no case?

Hi, my girlfriend is in exactly the same situation. I sent a simmilar/or the same letter to them and they replied by sending a bunch of account statements which dosent really mean anything to her, theres no call lists, signatures or account information, just a bunch of bills. So we responded by sending an S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) to t-moblie and a letter to the debt collection agency explaining that T-mobile have been sent an S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) and they are going to have to do better than that if they expect to get paid. See here if you want to follow our progress: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/131061-please-help-lowell-dcas.html The SAR, allong with obligitory £10 postal order for admin fees, we sent is as follows: T-MOBILE(UK)LTD HATFIELDBUSINESSPARK HATFIELD HERTFORDSHIRE AL10 9BU SUBJECT ACCESS REQUEST FOR COMMUNICATIONS DATA To the attention of the Data Protection Officer Dear Sir or Madam Ref: XXXXXXXXXXX Red Debt collection Services This is a subject access request for disclosure of information under Section 7 of the Data Protection Act 1998. Please send me the information which I am entitled to under section 7(1). In accordance with that section, please provide a statement: • confirming whether any personal data is being processed; • describing the personal data processed; • specifying the purposes for which data is processed for each category of data, and the recipients of any data disclosed[1]; • detailing any transfers of data outside the UK in whatever form or by whatever means; • naming the person responsible for the data protection compliance. This information should include any personal data comprised in, linkable to, or which can be associated with the following identifiers: • All records relating to telephone calls made from or to the telephone number All records relating to electronic services and text messages made from or to this same telephone number; • All records relating to billing information, including subscriber data relating to my account. In particular, the following types of personal data are sought: • "communications data" as defined by Section 21(4) and Section 21(6) of the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000; • any data processed by switches, cells, Message-Transfer-Agents(MTAs), monitoring-systems, voice mail, or other software or hardware devices under your control, which is retained and/or disclosed in hardcopy, electronic media, backup devices, transient storage or otherwise including location information; • case notes on incidents, events, disclosures, collections, modifications or faults; • records of disclosures to other parties, including emails; • the logic of any automated decision processes[2]; • The sources of the personal data. As required by the Data Protection Act 1998 section 8(2), please provide an explanation of the purpose, meaning, and context of the information. This includes geographical information for any location data that is retained. You are required to supply this information as soon as possible, no longer than forty days. If possible, I request that the information be provided in electronic form, as allowed under section 8(2) of the DPA 1998. If this is not possible, please provide it to me in hard copy. If you are not providing me with copies of all records that you hold related to this request containing personal information because of an exemption in the DPA or for any other reason, please inform me of that fact. I understand that you are required to properly identify any applicant for access to personal data. Please promptly advise me whether any further information is required from me, or whether the information contained in this letter and/or my personal cheque for the access fee is sufficient. Please advise me by telephone of any further information you require. If you believe you are not the data controller for any of the above data, please provide the contact details of the organisation you believe to be the controller and explain why you have reached the conclusion why you are not the controller. Yours faithfully

Ok, letter draft to RED DCA: Dear Sir/Madam You have contacted me regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed by myself. I do not acknowledge any such debt being owed to T-mobile. The photocopied account statements you have sent to me do not qualify as evidence as to my liability for the debt in question. The account in question, is suspected by me to be incorrect or fraudulent, and T-mobile will be served with a subject acsess request (S.A.R - (Subject Access Request)) under the data protection act in due course in an attempt to clarify this situation. A simple copy of the original details used to create the T-mobile contract will clarify this matter. Rest assured no monies will be paid until the above has been satisfied. I am familiar with the Office of Fair Trading Debt Collection Guidance which states that it unfair to send demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that they are the debtor in question. Furthermore ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment amounts to physical/psychological harassment. I would ask you again that no further contact be made concerning the above account unless you can provide evidence as to my liability for the debt in question. I await your written confirmation that this matter is now closed. Any further spurious threats will certainly result in complaints to trading standards and the office of fair trading. I look forward to your reply. ]******************************************************* Does that look ok, I plan to send this to RED, with a SAR to T-Mobile to hopefully shed some light on this mess. Any comments welcome.

Ok, thanks, the plan for now is to S.A.R T-Mobile and copy (cc) RED DCA in on the letter, re-itterating the fact that the debt is in despute. I Will post a draft letter here tomorrow to see if anyone can give advice, but its late now so Im going to bed

Ok, thanks everso, should we SAR red, lowells, t-mobile, or all three? The problem is, we cant ask the council as she just paid board in cash, so no bills in her name for that addy

Thanks for the help... Just recived a new letter: We write in respect of the above debt, as previously notified in writing we have purchased from Tmobile. We are now entitled to recive payment of the balance of £xxx from you and enclose your copy of your statement as requested. The last letter I sent was identical to the one a few posts above, and was not a request for a statement. Niether Tmobile nor ourselves are aware of any reason for non-payment. Please make payment or contact us within 7 days to agree payment, failing which we reserve the right to take legal procedings without further notice. attached to this letter was a number of photo-copied phonebills which dont mean anything to us. ******************************************************* So, what next, do we write to them being open and tell them of the suspected fraud, or push on asking for proof....all we need is a copy of the signature on the agreement, along with bank account numbers amd any other personal details that the contract was paid from, and we can clear all this up. Thanks again for any help!

groovycaz, it sounds like the back light in the screen is faulty, its not an uncommon fault. There is a light (simmilar to a mini florescent strip light) behind the screen which will need to be replaced.

Well thats the thing, she dosent think she took out the contract, and thinks she wasnt actually living there at the time. After a discussion we came to the conclusion that its possible foul play by a third party. So im not sure where that leaves us, If they wont provide proof, then they wont get paid as far as I'm concerned, if they want to take it to court then they are going to have to provide proof at some point. So I assume I just maintain this stance untill some concrete facts come to light?