Is there a minimum amount for where a loan becomes a mortgage?

i'd reclaim the PPI first via the fscs

as if there is outstanding balance that might well kill it

then the charges reclaim will go to your pocket

 

dx

there is no outstanding balance on that account, it was cleared in 2005 a few months after the loan was taken out, although I do have outstanding finance on a car with them, so not sure if they'd take the PPI and apply it to that?, Although that finance is in my ex partners name with me as a 2nd applicant, if that makes any difference?

if you already had a mortgage on the house

i dont think they can legally charge a mif

 

sorry just catching up & thinking out loud

dx

Already had a mortgage on the house, but Welcome claimed it was justified to charge the MIF.

I'd decided that whatever I done next, I'd leave the PPI out and deal with that seperately. So, should I send another letter highlighting my complaint, bearing in mind that they say it is their final response to the matter, or do I now complain to the FOS,? Having read other threads where people have instigated court action, I can see that something that at first looks and sounds easy, quickly becomes a very involved matter!

So, apart from the PPI, what do I do about the rest? Do I write again? Threaten them with court action? Because to be honest I haven't got a clue what to do next, but it seems I've been charged for things I shouldn't have.

I wouldnt be in a hurry to go to the FOS. A couple of questions if you dont mind.

 

1. This is a secured loan. Against your house?

2. At the time you applied for the loan, were you in negative equity?

3. Did they give a reason why the (small) loan was secured against your house?

4. From reading the statements, it appears that the credit took 6 months. You signed the loan in Jan, but the statements dont show any credit/debits until July. Is this correct or have I missed something?

5. Did you go through a broker or third party to get the loan or did you go to Welcome directly?

6. Have you any idea what your property was worth when you took out the loan?

7. What were the reasons given for Welcome for not upholding your complaint?

1) Yes it was secured against my house (house was sold in 2006)

2) No, was not, and never had been in negative equity

3) They never gave a reason as to why it was secured against the house, to be honest I can't actually remember, but I do know I was in arrears with the mortgage and was unable to get an unsecured loan.

4) I'm sure there are some debit showing up to March/April

5) I went to Welcome directly, only because at the time they had an office in town back then

6) Not too sure on how much property was worth when taking out the loan, was purchased for £56k in 1999 and sold for £127k in 2006, and that was at least £15k under value in order to get quick sale and house needed work doing

7) If I can find the scanner I'll upload a copy of the letter, if not I'll copy it out, but for now they basically disagreed with every single point I made, apart from PPI, and the basic gist of it was that as I had signed agreement and accepted their T&C's at the time, then I had no comeback.

I think the whole thing stinks, some of it does go over my head, but things like the MIF, for what is really, a small loan, bug me and I can't see how they think its fair.

I had a phone call about the PPI claim earlier, enquiring as to whether I wished to proceed as I've had the questionaire for two and half months, put the young lady in her place though after telling her that yes I was still proceeding but having just spent 6 weeks in hospital for a heart bypass, and subsequently having a lung collapse a few days later, then managing to get a blood clot on that lung, that I hadn't really been in a position to return the questionaire, but it would be returned in next few days.

Well, finally got a written reply from Welcome, received a few weeks ago, would have posted it up sooner but have had quite a long stay in hospital (6wks) so it's had to wait. Anyway, I'd made the same complaint last year via email and not received a reply, turns out they did reply, but had sent the leter to a previous address, despite knowing my current address at the time.

It seems that bar PPI, they are refusing to accept any part of my complaint and stand by everything they have done and charged.

So, next step FOS?

Having sent both a letter and an email to Welcome nearly 2 weeks ago, I was surprised to have received 2 replies!

Anyway, copied and pasted below....

Dear Sir/Madam,

I already have an application for the PPI matter, however, I am unwilling to send a copy of a utility bill to confirm my address. As I have also been corresponding in writing with your company, hence how I received the PPI application by return, I can see no need to provide proof of address.

Yours sincerely

Me

> Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 15:34:12 +0100

> From: [email protected]

> To: @hotmail.co.uk

> Subject: Re: Formal Complaint

>

> Dear Me

>

>

> Thank you for your email of 23/05/2011. Please accept my apologies for the delay in my response. Regarding your issue over your PPI being miss sold I can arrange for an application form to be sent to you, however from looking on our database it appears that the address you have given in your email does not match our records. Before I can send an application form I would be grateful if you could provide proof of your new address by sending an ORIGINAL of a utility bill in your name dated during the last 3 months - to the address below. As soon as this is received your application form will be sent to your new address.

>

> Welcome Financial Services Ltd

> PO Box 10950

> Sandringham House

> Harlow

> CM20 9JF

>

> Regarding your other queries I have forwarded your email to the correct department who will look into these issues for you.

>

>

> If you have any further queries, please email me on [email protected] or contact our customer services team on 0845 373 0386.

>

>

> Yours sincerely

>

>

>

> James Lees

> Team Manager

> FSCS Operations

> Welcome Finance

>

>

>

> >>> me 23/05/2011 17:24 >>>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> 22nd May 2011

>

>

>

>

> Dear Sirs/Madam,

>

>

>

> Formal Complaint about agreement

>

>

>

> I write in refence to the above account and would like to raise a formal

> complaint about how the agreement was settled as well as other

> surrounding issues.

>

>

>

> Firstly on the settled account I cannot understand how fee rebates and an

> early settlement penalty totalling £590.47 have been applied. As far as I

> am concerned, a rebate should be in favour of the customer (i.e. Me)

> and so I cannot accept that the rebates are appropriate nor treating

> customers fairly - please refund this plus statutory interest.

>

>

>

> Also I wish to query how in seven days (5/7 and 12/7) you have charged

> two lots of what look like full months worth of interest, clearly this

> is an error and so I require at least £87.20 to be refunded plus

> statutory interest.

>

>

>

> The insurances attached to this loan were missold to me, I was informed

> in no uncertain terms that I would not get the loan without having these

> attached. I do understand that I received a partial rebate but the

> remaining £342.29 should be refunded plus statutory interest at 8%.

>

>

>

> The fees totalling £60 are also I believe unfair deductions, I

> understand that company policy at the time was to cancel direct debits

> if they were unpaid more than once, this did not happen so please refund

> these plus interest.

>

>

>

> Finally I am most disturbed at the MIF (Mortgage Indemnity Fee), especialy given the loan size, I

> do not accept that a MIF of 10% of the amount borrowed is acceptable and

> this was not explained by your representative. Therefore I would like

> this to be refunded too.

>

>

>

> To save you the calculations the 8% interest

> needs to be compounded so the total I require refunding is £1354.96

> with 6 years compound interest added means £2150.15, add into the fact

> of inconvenience, I require a total of £2300.

>

>

> I trust these matters can be dealt with by yourselves without the

> need for intervention by the FOS, therefore I will allow you the

> opportunity of resolving matters

> satisfactorily for me. However on that note, should I remain

> dissatisfied I will have no alternative but to lodge a claim with the

> FOS, and pursue legal and other options further.

>

>

>

> Yours Faithfully

>

>

>

>

>

> me

>

>

> This email has been scanned and verified as virus free by CheckPoint on behalf of Cattles limited.

>

>

>

> This email has been scanned and verified as virus free by CheckPoint on behalf of Cattles limited.

>

> Cattles Limited Registered in England No: 133540

> Kingston House, Centre 27 Business Park,

> Woodhead Road, Birstall, Batley, WF179TD.

>

> The views and opinions expressed herein are those of the author and not of Cattles Limited or any of its subsidiaries.The content of this e-mail is confidential, may contain privileged material and is intended solely for the recipient(s) named above.

>

> If you receive this in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this e-mail.

>

> Please note that neither Cattles Limited nor the sender accepts any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan the email and attachments(if any). No contracts or agreements may be concluded on behalf of Cattles Limited or its subsidiaries by means of email communications.

>

> This email has been verified Virus free

> by Cattles and Sophos Puremessage scanning service.

>

And.....

Dear Sir/Madam,

I have received a questionaire from yourselves regarding the misselling of PPI, but would like to know if the rest of my complaint is being investigated, as the PPI is only a part of the complaint.

Yours sincerely

Me

> Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 16:31:58 +0100

> From: [email protected]

> To: [email protected]

> Subject: Fwd: Formal Complaint

>

> Dear Me,

>

> Thank you for your email on the 23rd May 2011.

>

> It is receiving attention and a response will be sent out in the next three working days

>

> Yours sincerely

>

> Leigh Thomas

> Eligibility Manager

> FSCS Operations

> Welcome Finance

> Mere Way, Ruddington Fields Business Park, Ruddington, Nottingham. NG11 6NZ

>

>

>

> >>> 23/05/2011 17:24 >>>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> 22nd May 2011

>

>

>

>

> Dear Sirs/Madam,

>

>

>

> Formal Complaint about agreement 1466611

>

>

>

> I write in refence to the above account and would like to raise a formal

> complaint about how the agreement was settled as well as other

> surrounding issues.

>

>

>

> Firstly on the settled account I cannot understand how fee rebates and an

> early settlement penalty totalling £590.47 have been applied. As far as I

> am concerned, a rebate should be in favour of the customer (i.e. Me)

> and so I cannot accept that the rebates are appropriate nor treating

> customers fairly - please refund this plus statutory interest.

>

>

>

> Also I wish to query how in seven days (5/7 and 12/7) you have charged

> two lots of what look like full months worth of interest, clearly this

> is an error and so I require at least £87.20 to be refunded plus

> statutory interest.

>

>

>

> The insurances attached to this loan were missold to me, I was informed

> in no uncertain terms that I would not get the loan without having these

> attached. I do understand that I received a partial rebate but the

> remaining £342.29 should be refunded plus statutory interest at 8%.

>

>

>

> The fees totalling £60 are also I believe unfair deductions, I

> understand that company policy at the time was to cancel direct debits

> if they were unpaid more than once, this did not happen so please refund

> these plus interest.

>

>

>

> Finally I am most disturbed at the MIF (Mortgage Indemnity Fee), especialy given the loan size, I

> do not accept that a MIF of 10% of the amount borrowed is acceptable and

> this was not explained by your representative. Therefore I would like

> this to be refunded too.

>

>

>

> To save you the calculations the 8% interest

> needs to be compounded so the total I require refunding is £1354.96

> with 6 years compound interest added means £2150.15, add into the fact

> of inconvenience, I require a total of £2300.

>

>

> I trust these matters can be dealt with by yourselves without the

> need for intervention by the FOS, therefore I will allow you the

> opportunity of resolving matters

> satisfactorily for me. However on that note, should I remain

> dissatisfied I will have no alternative but to lodge a claim with the

> FOS, and pursue legal and other options further.

>

>

>

> Yours Faithfully

>

>

>

>

>

> Me

>

Do those who read letters and those who have been promoted to use a computer not talk to each other? Surely they would know that a letter had been sent and what was contained in that letter?

Also note, the email replied from is @cattles.co.uk and not @wfs.co.uk.

Should have said the first loan was taken out on 19th Jan 2005 and settled early due to remortgaging,

The loan was settled in July 2005, the outstanding finance is car finance taken out in Feb 2008.

I think I asked this question on another thread, but anyway. If you have outstanding finance with Welcome, and are claiming back PPI from a previous, settled loan, what happens to the refund? Does it get returned to you, or can/do they apply it to the outstanding balance, even though it is seperate from the original PPI claim?

And are these 'lovely' FSCS people dealing with any other claims related to Welcome, ie, charges, MIF etc?

I had a reply from Welcome, standard 'we are investigating your complaint' and a PPI questionaire, but no mention about the rest of my complaint. So, do I fill in their questionaire? And if so, how? I'm sure there was a guide on here a little while ago on the best way to do it but haven't found it yet.

So, if you have outstanding finance with Welcome, and are claiming the PPI back off a previously settled loan, will they apply the refund from the settled account to the outstanding account?

Ok, anyone advise on whats best to do? As I see it, I have a few choices, bearing in mind they have terminated the agreement.

As they've terminated on the back of a dodgy default notice, and the arrears upto termination were roughly £900, as far as I've been told on here I'm only liable for the arrears.

So, I could.....

a) pay them the arrears but I'm not in a position to do so,

b) dispose of the vehicle (need a larger vehicle now) but in doing so could open up a whole can of worms as the car still shows on HPI register,

c) try and negotiate with them (but doubt I'd get too far)

Now, this is how I see the situation, I've had the car 3yrs 3mths, they terminated 2yrs 10mths ago and apart from 1 attempt to repo, they haven't bothered, nor have I received any communication from them about the car. So, what do I do? Surely they cant have just forgotten about me? Would it be worth trying to spur them into action? Whats the chances of getting them to write off the debt, and if so, how? Offer them a settlement based on a percentage of the arrears? Just dispose of the car and hope for the best?

I'm in stalemate at the moment, have heard nothing from Welcome in over 2yrs 9mths regarding the car, but need a larger car due to an expanding family.

I tried making a claim on it years ago..... They refused.

Letter sent today so wonder how long it'll take to get a reply from them.

No PPI on the finance, was wise to Welcome by then, but have got GAP.

The thread relating to this originally is here - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?201336-Welcome-Agreement-%28Finally-scanned%29 ,had some issues with the paperwork, namely have never had or seen the original paperwork that was signed, just a copy of the faxed agreement.

Right, Feb 2008 took a car with finance by Welcome, long story short they terminated the agreement in Aug 2008, I'll try and dig out the thread on here. Anyway, it's now approaching 3yrs since they terminated the agreement, and apart from one attempt to repo the car in Sept 2008, I have heard zilch from Welcome about it, all bar a phone call in Jul 2009, to tell me it had been passed to Lewis', but even after speaking to them I have heard nothing. Now, what do I do? Welcome have been kept informed of changes of address etc over the years, so they know where the car is, but they seem to not be bothered about repossessing it. My circumstances have changed, we need a bigger car but at the moment I'm stuck with this car due to the finance.

So, any ideas on what to do?

To be honest, I haven't even sent the letter yet, had been too busy with work, but thanks to being laid off last week I now have plenty of time to get the ball rolling.

The letter that was going to be / is going to be sent, as written by someone else on here, for me.

Dear Sirs,

Formal Complaint about agreement XXXXXXXX

I write in refence to the above account and would like to raise a formal complaint about how the agreement was settled as well as other surrounding issues.

Firstly on the settled account I can't understand how fee rebates and an early settlement penalty totalling £590.47 has been applied. As far as I am concerned, a rebate should be in favour of the customer (i.e. Me) and so I cannot accept that the rebates are appropriate nor treating customers fairly - please refund this plus statutory interest.

Also I wish to query how in seven days (5/7 and 12/7) you have charged two lots of what look like full months worth of interest, clearly this is an error and so I require at least £87.20 to be refunded plus statutory interest.

The insurances attached to this loan were missold to me, I was informed in no uncertain terms that I would not get the loan without having these attached. I do understand that I received a partial rebate but the remaining £342.29 should be refunded plus statutory interest at 8%.

The fees totalling £60 are also I believe unfair deductions, I understand that company policy at the time was to cancel direct debits if they were unpaid more than once, this did not happen so please refund these plus interest.

Finally I am most disturbed at the MIF, especialy given the loan size, I don't accept that a MIF of 10% of the amount borrowed is acceptable and this was not explained by your reresentative. Therefore I would like this to be refunded too.

To save you the calculations the 8% interest needs to be compounded so the total I require refunding is £1354.96 with 5 years compound interest added means £1990.88, add into the fact of inconvenience, I require a total of £2500.

What is SOC?

The files are uploaded at the beginning of the thread, I'll have a go at at converting to pdf over the weekend.

What I was trying to say is do I basically just add another 8% as its been a year since the figures were worked out? I've found the letter I was going to send, so where do I send it?

Done all that 2yrs ago, although I guess I could probably do with doing it again. As well as the car, there was an old secured loan a/c with some charges etc that I was hoping to be able to get back. The thread is http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?251405-Welcome-Secured-Loan-agreement&highlight=kregrs

I did have a letter ready to send last year but have lost it, some onewas kind enough to work out the figures and what I should be asking for from them, anybody feel like going over it and giving me some figures? And what is the address to send it to, attention of? etc.

Thanks

Haven't been on here for nearly a year, have some old posts I'll try and dig out, but whats the deal with Welcome nowadays? They kindly terminated my car finance nearly 3 years ago now, and haven't really made any attempt to reposssess the car, have had no contact from either them or anybody on their behalf. I did contact them via an email address I found on here re a settled loan and PPI etc, but never had a reply, so now work has eased off a bit, I've decided its about time I made another start on getting some money back out them.

Well it seems Mr Bailiff is adamant he is taking goods regardless. I informed him via sms that the debt had been paid, due to getting no answer when ringing, and requesting a breakdown of the charges, in writing. I plan to write on Monday requesting them anyway, but below is his reply, word for word.

'You will not get in writing until the debt is paid, or after goods are removed. Pls ring me monday'

So what do you make of that?