I should add that they are also trying to make me pay the genuine loan for which they have produced a poor copy of a credit agreement. This form has numerous faults including not being a true signed original copy, not having the ts & cs attached etc etc. I do have a concern they could get this one reopened but there are many arguments I need to present against this. The main one being that I have effectively paid this loan back many times over because I have been stuck paying 29%+ interest on credit card debt of £14,000 for the last 5 years. I am also stuck on an uncompetitive mortgage because of their defaults on my record. And so if that loan is reopened then the judge needs to take into allowance the huge impact the defaults that have been filed against me in error have had on my finances. In addition the stress that it has caused and still is causing me is unbelievable, its a constant nagging pressure always lurking at the back of my mind, I can't prove this though as I have never been to a doctor etc about it, just got on with life. The Judge also needs to act against them because they have treated me unfairly, breached the CCA and acted unlawfully. I don't know how best to present those arguments though and indeed if the judge will place any value on them?

Hi SJ, No its not a credit card its an unsecured loan - sort of.... Essentially they put money in my account and then started taking out monthly payments. When I noticed and contacted them to question the sum deposited and the payments they were taking I got repeatedly rebuffed by call centre staff. They claimed I had applied for a loan and signed an agreement for the money but I could simply repay the money (plus interest). I explained I had not taken out the loan so was not paying interest. After a few months I simply stopped paying the monthly payments until they would accept their error and allow me to pay it back minus interest. They eventually investigated and agreed to this after a few months of non payment by me but they would not remove adverse marks on my credit rating and so I refused to pay them until they did this. They then reverted to their stance that they had a credit agreement and denied ever admitting that the loan was an error (I have a letter that shows otherwise). So to apply some pressure and as they were ruining my credit record anyway I went through the proper process and stopped another loan I had with them as they failed to produce that credit agreement either. They eventually tried to take me to court, I issued a defence and they issued a notice of discontinuance. That's a VERY simplified version but gives a basic overview, so I've been stuck with 2 x defaults on my record and unable to obtain credit but I've been 'waiting it out' now they are trying to reopen the case.

Apologies, it is from the court, the claimants are walle*s They have not asked me for anything other than to attend a hearing in front of a judge whilst the claimant tries to gain permission to bring a further claim. I can't understand why they would bother to try given the low probability that they will be successful. ps for * read 'r' I don't want to type their name as I have heard of cases where CAG is monitored and posts used in court.

I have received a General Form of Judgement or Order from their solicitors (Walle*s). They state that: I incorrectly referred to s.77 CCA 1974 as s.78 CCA 1974 They discontinued the claim to deal with my defence They claim they are now in a position to prove their claim They have enclosed 2 x credit agreements, one is a computer printout of a credit agreement with no signature or date (this is the one that was never applied for) and the second one is the one which is signed but is a microfiche copy with completely different Ts & Cs which is a genuine agreement that I stopped paying as leverage. Does this make a difference?

We did indeed exchange defence at the AQ stage and so I am a loss as to explain what they hope to achieve as from what I have read it is highly unlikely they would succeed. I have also had no success in getting their entries to my credit record removed which makes life difficult. I have just completed the financial Ombudsman's compliant form ready to post tomorrow which will hopefully apply some pressure and make them see sense...

Hi Citizen B, As Scarlet Pimpernel has noticed this is indeed my original thread. I can however start a fresh one if that is easier? Cheers

So this has been rumbling on really with annual statements being sent but I've been holding tight until my credit record finally clears and then a surprise, they have applied for the permission of the court to bring a further claim against me citing CPR38.7. Is this something to worry about? Do I need to do anything having received the court summons or just turn up? Do I need to prepare anything for court? I thought they could not apply for a further claim after 3 years had passed since the original claim? I'm now deeply concerned! Please let me know if a synopsis would be useful? Thanks Ruud

Hi all, I've just had a call from my Mum saying that a company called GlovistaRed have contacted her and told her thay can wipe out her creditcard debt - provided she pays them £1000 on her card up front. Their reasoning is that some new legislation is about to come out that will allow anyone who has had their limit increased without requesting it to claim back their full balance. Sounds like a [problem] initially but there is some new legislation in the pipelines so? Does this sound viable? if true it would effect virtually everyone in the country and would dwarf the amounts the banks owe in bank charges? I suspect it must be a [problem] as there is no info on CAG relating to it? My Mum has paid this company already, I've told her to try and cancel it but it may be too late, can anyone help? Thanks Ruud

Thanks a lot guys, I was really suprised when I opened the post, I nearly fell off my chair! This was the stronger of their two cases against me so hopefully another N279 will follow shortly. I couldn't have got this result without the support and help of CAG so thank you all. And of course donation to follow shortly. Ruud

Hi all, My AQ is due in tomorrow but on Friday I received an N279 Notice of Discontinuance which stated "the claimant discontinues all of this claim" From what I've read in X20s thread, they can not try and issue proceedings against me again, is this right? I assume I don't need to submit my AQ anymore? Have I won??? (Fingers Crossed) Ruud

Hi thanks for the reply Skeggs, Unfortunately my Wife banked the cheque as it was so I couldn't do any more ;-( Ruud

Hi BRW, I wish I'd come across your thread a few days earlier, I ran out of time to make full use of your research however it'll be really helpfull to me going forwards so thank you. I've just posted the above defence now so It's a case of sitting back and waiting..... Cheers Ruud

Thanks for the input Banker, I'll be reading round and ammending my defence for a few hours yet. It's really encouraging to know I'm barking up the right tree though Thanks for your support Ruud

Hi, This is a rough version of the defence I intend to post by special delivery at lunchtime today, I've adapted and added to a standard defence and so I hope it's all relevant and correctly worded. If somone could please comment I'd be really greatful as I'm not confident I've got it right. Thanks Ruud Defence Except where otherwise mentioned in this defence, I neither admit nor deny any allegation made in the claimants Particulars of Claim and put the claimant to strict proof thereof. The Defendant is embarrassed in pleading to the Particulars of Claim as it stands at present, inter alia: - The claimants’ particulars of claims disclose no legal cause of action and they are embarrassing to the defendant as the claimant's statement of case is insufficiently particularised and does not comply or even attempt to comply with CPR part 16. In this regard I wish to draw the courts attention to the following matters; a)The Particulars of Claim are vague and insufficient and do not disclose an adequate statement of facts relating to or proceeding the alleged cause of action. No particulars are offered in relation to the nature of the written agreement referred to, the method the claimant calculated any outstanding sums due, or any default notices issued required for the claimant to have a legitimate right of action for the purported debt or any other matters necessary to substantiate the claimant’s claim. b)A copy of the purported written agreement that the claimant cites in the Particulars of Claim, and which appears to form the basis upon which these proceedings have been brought, has not been served attached to the claim form. c)A copy of any evidence of both the scope and nature of any default, and proof of any amount outstanding on the alleged accounts, has not been served attached to the claim form. 4.Consequently, I deny all allegations on the particulars of claim and do not know what case I have to meet. 5.In respect of that which is denied, on 03/January/2007 I requested that the claimant provide a true copy of the executed credit agreement, which they claim exists between parties pursuant to section 78(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Consumer Credit (Prescribed Periods for Giving Information) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1569) sets out that the claimant must comply with such request in 12 working days of receipt of such request. 6.Section 78 (6) consumer Credit Act 1974 sets out the consequences of failure to comply with such request and states s78 (6) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)— (a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement; and (b) if the default continues for one month he commits an offence. 7.It is drawn to the courts attention that the claimant has failed to comply with my request and is in clear default of its obligations under s78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 and it is averred that the claimant has no right of action until such time as the default is remedied and the true copy of the executed agreement is produced before the defendant containing the prescribed terms under Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) and signed in the prescribed manner by the debtor and creditor 8.Therefore since the documents have not been supplied as requested pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974 I deny that I am liable to the claimant and put the claimant to strict proof that such enforceable agreement between parties exists 9.Further to the case, in an attempt to ascertain what grounds the claimant is bringing this action and to allow me to prepare my defence I requested on 22/October/2008 the disclosure of information pursuant to the Civil Procedure Rules, which is vital to this case from the claimant. The information requested amounted to copies of the Credit Agreement and Default Notice referred to in the particulars of claim. Also any other documents the Claimant seeks to rely on. 10.To Date the claimant has not fully complied with my request under the CPR as the documents subsequently supplied are not the documents requested. The default Notice and the written agreement are incomplete/incorrect and as such I suggest they are inadmissable 11. The courts attention is drawn to the fact the claimant has failed to comply with CPR part 16 and Practice Direction 16 in-so- far as they have failed to attach the written agreement they are basing this action on to the particulars of claim as required by the civil procedure rules. Therefore I believe that I am entitled to ask the claimant to supply me the requested documents 12.The courts attention is drawn to the fact that the documentation the claimant is relying upon to bring this action does not meet the prescribed terms required in Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) which was amended by Consumer Credit (Agreements) (Amendment) Regulations 2004 (SI2004/1482). The prescribed terms referred to are contained in schedule 6 column 2 of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) and are inter alia: - A term stating the credit limit or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit, A term stating the rate of any interest on the credit to be provided under the agreement and A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following-- 1.Number of repayments; 2.Amount of repayments; 3.Frequency and timing of repayments; 4.Dates of repayments; 5.The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable 13.The courts attention is also drawn to the fact that where an agreement does not have the prescribed terms as stated in point 12 it is not compliant with section 60(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 and therefore not enforceable by s127 (3). The courts attention is also drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the consumer credit act 1974 and the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) and Consumer Credit (Agreements) (Amendment) Regulations 2004 (SI2004/1482) the agreement cannot be enforced 14.I refer to LORD NICHOLLS OF BIRKENHEAD in the House of Lords Wilson v First County Trust Ltd - [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) paragraph 29 ” The court's powers under section 127(1) are subject to significant qualification in two types of cases. The first type is where section 61(1)(a), regarding signing of agreements, is not complied with. In such cases the court 'shall not make' an enforcement order unless a document, whether or not in the prescribed form, containing all the prescribed terms, was signed by the debtor: section 127(3). Thus, signature of a document containing all the prescribed terms is an essential prerequisite to the court's power to make an enforcement order.” 15.Notwithstanding the above, it is also drawn to the courts attention that no default notice required by s87 (1) Consumer Credit act 1974 has been attached to the particulars of claim 16.It is neither admitted or denied that any Default Notice in the prescribed format was ever received and the Defendant puts the Claimant to strict proof that said document in the prescribed format was delivered to the defendant 17.Notwithstanding point 15, I put the claimant to strict proof that any default notice sent to me was valid. I note that to be valid, a default notice needs to be accurate in terms of both the scope and nature of breach and include an accurate figure required to remedy any such breach. The prescribed format for such document is laid down in Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1561) and Amendment regulations the Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) (Amendment) Regulations 2004 (SI 2004/3237) 18. I respectfully ask the court to examine a copy of the default notice supplied to the defendent in reponse to the afore mentioned request. The defendant suggests the supplied document does not conform to the prescribed format and as such is invalid. 19.Failure of a default notice to be accurate not only invalidates the default notice (Woodchester Lease Management Services Ltd v Swain and Co - [2001] GCCR 2255) but is a unlawful rescission of contract which would not only prevent the court enforcing any alleged debt, but give me a counter claim for damages Kpohraror v Woolwich Building Society [1996] 4 All ER 119 20.In view of the matters pleaded above, I respectfully request that the court gives consideration to whether the claimant’s statement of case should be struck out as disclosing no reasonable grounds for bringing the claim, and/or that it fails to comply with CPR Part 16 and Practice Direction 16. 21.Alternatively if the court decides not to strike out the claimants case, it is requested that the court orders full disclosure of the documents it intends to rely on pursuant to the Civil Procedure Rules 22.Having instigated these proceedings without any legal basis for doing so, having failed to provide a true signed copy of the alleged credit agreement as required under the pre-trial protocols in order to investigate this claim, also having failed to provide a copy of the default notice served in the prescribed format, and having failed to investigate a dispute as required by the OFT Debt collection Guidelines I believe the Claimant’s conduct amounts to unlawful harassment under section 40 of The Administration of Justice Act1970. Furthermore, the Claimant’s behaviour is entirely vexatious and wholly unreasonable. 23.I respectfully ask the permission of the court to amend this defence and submit a counter claim when the claimant provides full disclosure of the requested documents in their correctly prescribed formats.

Hi all, I've just realised I need to submit my reponse tomorrow as they did reply to my cpr 31.14 request eventually, I've psoted the documents at ChopperPort/N Rock - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting under 11-repsonse to 31 14. The agreement they've sent has a signature but is not mine and the T&C's look to be a standard set they've got on file with a handwritten 'August 2005' on them, hole punch marks, the document is not A4 and has nothing at all that links it to the CA. I plan to sumit a defence tomorrow which lists the following points: 1. They did not respond to my S78 (1) request for my Credit Agreement and so when the DN was served it was already unenforceable 2. Because of 1. all the correspondance they sent including logged telephone calls is deemed harrassment 3. The DN is not valid as per previous posts (Thanks Andy) 4. The CA is not a true copy of the original I'll therefore request that the claim is struck out. Should I then make a counter claim to have my Credit Record corrected? Should I also make a counter claim for the monies they've taken from me in respect of this account? Any guidance would be really appreciated, I know this is late - I'm awful at leaving things to the last minute, sorry. Thanks Ruud

Hi Andy, I sent my CPR request on the 22nd, they recieved it on the 23rd which means the 7 days are up today (30th). My defence date is 28 days after the summons was issued, I've checked with the Court and it has to be in by November 18th. I'll have aread round though to find a 'holding defence' just to be on the safe side. Thanks Ruud

Thanks Andy/42/Citizen, I don't understand how they can do a lot of what they do which is how I've ended up here! Am I right to think that as they have not complied with my CPR 39.14 and my previous requests for the Credit Agreement, I should before I submit a defence, be sending an N244 filled in as follows which I've borrowed from an X20 post: In box [3] of the N244 write: 'An order that unless within 14 days of the making of an order upon this application the Claimant complies with a request made by the Defendant on (date) pursuant to CPR 31.14 by the provision to the Defendant of documents mentioned in the Particulars of Claim, namely [1] the agreement [2] the default notice and [3] the assignment, the claim shall stand struck out and the Defendant shall be at liberty to enter judgment against the Claimant without further order of the court with the costs of this case to be paid by the Claimant to the Defendant to be assessed on the standard basis and pursuant to the provisions of The Litigants in Person (Costs and Expenses) Act 1975. The application is made because of the Claimant's refusal to comply with the Defendant's CPR 31.14 request and the documents are required owing to [here add any special feature or requirement of the case] and to enable the proper preparation of a Defence.' In Box 4 write: 'Yes' In Box 5 write: 'Without a hearing' Ignore Box 6 In Box 7 write: 'None' In Box 8 write: 'District Judge' In Box 9 write: 'Claimant' In Box 10 tick the box marked 'the evidence set out in the box below' and beneath it write: 'On (date), following service of the Claim Form in this case, I wrote to the Claimant requesting inspection of documents mentioned in the Particulars of Claim pursuant to CPR 31.14. A copy of my letter of request is attached to this application notice marked 'A'. The following is the text taken from my wakeywakey post but hopefully will assist with a gist of the sort of thing to say: [The Claimant replied by letter dated (date) rejecting my request on the ground it had no obligation to comply. A copy of this reply is attached to this application notice marked 'B'. The agreement relied upon by the Claimant is now very old. The documents sought by my request are essential for the proper preparation of my defence and the determination of the claim and CPR 31.14 afford me a right to inspect those documents.'] Sign the statement, attach the copies and complete the remainder of the N244 in the usual way applicable to your case. On a separate piece of paper to be attached to your application notice, write this: Claim No: Draft Order 1 Unless by 4:00pm on (date) the Claimant complies with a request made by the Defendant on (date) pursuant to CPR 31.14 by the provision to the Defendant of documents mentioned in the Particulars of Claim, namely [here list the documents sought in the CPR 31.14 request for example, [1] the agreement [2] the default notice and [3] the assignment,] the claim shall stand struck out and the Defendant shall be at liberty to enter judgment against the Claimant without further order of the court, and [ii] the Claimant shall pay the Defendant his/her costs of this case to be assessed on the standard basis and pursuant to the provisions of The Litigants in Person (Costs and Expenses) Act 1975. 2 In the event that the Claimant shall comply with this order, the Defendant shall file and serve a Defence by 4:00pm on (date) and [ii] the Claimant shall pay the Defendant his/her costs of this application [in any event] [assessed in the sum of £130.00] Can someone advise: 1.) is the blue text relevant given I've recieved no response? 2.) What date should be where the RED date is? 3.) shall i attach copies of previous letters asking for the agreement? Sorry I know it's another long one but I'm still struggling to grasp how all of this works! Thanks Ruud

Hi Andy, Can you tell me why the DN is not Complient? I think I need to submit my defence tomorrow as I've not received a response to my CPR 31.14 letter yet. Thanks

Thanks, I didn't want them to reject it on a technicality

Hi x20, I've been following this excellent thread with great interest as I've just been served a court summons. I don't want to go into detail here as it is already laid out in a seperate thread entitled "Court summons received please help" http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/164872-court-summons-received-please.html 42man kindly posted your 31.14 letter for me to use with one minor difference he changed the paragraph "You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties" to "Your client should ensure compliance with its CPR 31 duties" Is this important? and if so should I be changing the whole letter to refer to "Your Claimant"I just want to be sure I get it exactly right as I don't know much about this sort of thing and don't know if it matters? I'm hoping to post it this afternoon? Thanks and once again - great thread PS The Claimant is Northern Rock but Wallers are their Solicitors and the CPR 31.14 is going to Wallers

Hi 42Man, I found the CPR 31.14 letter posted by SurfaceAgentX20 and I notice that you have changed the paragraph "You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties" to "Your client should ensure compliance with its CPR 31 duties" Is this important? and if so should I be changing the whole letter to refer to "Your Claimant" I just want to be sure I get it exactly right as I don't know much about this sort of thing and don't know if it matters? Thanks

Hi Andy, I can't work out which the statement of account is but I'm not in possesion of any T&Cs Thanks for taking the time to have a look and it's encoraging to know that the Default Notice is not complient Cheers

For Ref these are the two letters I sent Last year: XXXXXX, XXXXXX, XXXXX, XXXXXXX January 03, 2007 Northern Rock Personal Loans Hepworth House Claypit Lane, LEEDS, LS2 8AE Dear Sir/Madam Re:− Reference Numbers XXXXXXXXXXXXXX85 & XXXXXXXXXXXXXX11 Further to letter Ref: RC/5XXXXX85 I am still waiting for a copy of the alleged credit agreement and I would be grateful if you would send me a copy of any credit agreements in relation to the above reference numbers. I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77−79), I am entitled to receive a copy of my credit agreement(s) on request. I enclose a payment of £1.00 which represents the fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act. I understand a copy of my credit agreement(s) should be supplied within 12 working days. I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with a request for a copy of the agreement under these sections of the Act. I look forward to hearing from you. Yours faithfully Mr XXXXXXXX XXXXXX and then XXXXXXXXXXXXXX, XXX XXXXXXXX, XXXXXXX March 28th 2007 Northern Rock Personal Loans Hepworth House Claypit Lane, LEEDS, LS2 8AE 28th March 2007 Agreement Numbers: XXXXXXXXXXXXXX85 & XXXXXXXXXXXXXX11 Dear Sir / madam. I wrote to you by recorded delivery on January 3rd 2007 asking for a copy of the credit agreements under S77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, enclosing a fee of £1. This letter was delivered and signed for on January 8th 2007 as documented by the Royal Mail. The Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for this request to be carried out before your company enter into a default situation. If the request is not satisfied after a further calendar month, your company commit an offence. These time limits expired on January 23rd 2007 and February 22nd 2007 respectively. I have still not received the documents as required by S77/8 Consumer Credit Act 1974. I am therefore of the opinion that an offence has now been committed. As you are no doubt aware subsection (4) states: If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)— (a) He is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement; and (b) If the default continues for one month he commits an offence. Therefore as at January 23rd 2007 both of these accounts became unenforceable at law and it is now my intention to refer this matter to the enforcement authorities. As an offence of this nature may have an impact on your ability to hold a credit licence, it is important that you give this letter your immediate and prompt attention. In addition these accounts are no longer enforceable and payments to them have therefore ceased. You cannot take any action to collect payment and this includes telephoning me. Any default notices or adverse comments your company have recorded on my credit reference file should be immediately removed. Please note that mere correction or amendment to the entry’s will not be acceptable. Additionally any monies I may have paid to your company should be returned to me forthwith. Failure to respond favourably to this letter within seven (7) days of receipt will result in immediate litigation being commenced against your company without further notice. I need not remind you that further attempts to discuss the matter with me or to seek payment from myself in this manner would be an act of criminal harassment. Under the Protection from Harassment Act 1997 s 1. A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable on summary conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months, or a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale, or both.I will not enter into any telephone discussions on this matter and have been logging all calls made by your company to be used in a court of law if necessary. I await your rapid response. Mr XXXXXXXXX XXXXXXX

Hi CreditCardMug, I've posted up all relevant docs here: ChopperPort/N Rock - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting They include: POC Default Notices (s) Final Demand (s) Admission of Error from NR - some of their facts are wrong Acknowledgement of verbal request for Agreement Details of proposed offer My Copy of Credit Agreement for genuine loan (11) Claim Form from court Wallers Letter I grouped correspondance for the applied for loan under (11) and the one in error under (85) Hope this is all useful? Thanks

Hi CreditCardMug I'll post up my documents on photo bucket shortly Thanks