Hey all, Would love some input on this one from a more experienced CAG'er if possible. Thanks, seabro

I am being chased because I signed a Guarantee and Indemnity relating to the hire of a Peugeot van by the company I used to own. Initially, I thought a Business to Business transaction would not be covered by the CCA but the OFT's website states The Consumer Credit Act 1974 lays down rules about how consumer credit agreements and consumer hire agreements must be documented. There are also rules about how and when copies must be given to the borrower or hirer. Now, the Guarantee and Indemnity I signed states: Agreement to which this Guarantee and Indemnity relates: A consumer hire agreement No XXXXXX So I assume that the hire document is covered by the CCA. Now, the Guarantee and Indeminty is 1 page, and the Hire Agreement is 1 page. Neither state they are covered by the CCA, neither has a lot of information such as default charges, total amount payable etc. Can any of you clever people let me know if I have a chance of winning a dispute on this? They are looking for £3K because the repo'd the van and sold it off cheap at auction after I got behind with payments. Scans of the docs attached. Your assistance is appreciated. http://www.picamatic.com/view/5144631_Consumer_Hire_Agreement_Peugeot/ http://www.picamatic.com/view/5144648_Consumer_Hire_Agreement_2Peugeot/

Hi, About 2 weeks ago I signed up for credit expert. I had about 10 accounts, 8 were perfect, then 2 defaults. I checked again about a week ago and all my account information is gone! The good and the defaults. I have absolutely no history! I looked at a previous report and it was all on there. So I left it a few days thinking maybe it was a computer glitch and checked back yesterday and it is still the same! I was going to mention it but the two defaults are gone. I even did a £5 credit score check and it showed 'number of defaults 0' I wonder if it will all come back soon? What you think? You heard of this happening before?

He didn't do well. Not sure if he is/was a cagger.

So the first question is, when is an agreement a cancellable agreement? What makes and agreement 'cancellable' according to the law. The way I see it, if an agreement is not cancellable, would the creditor allow you to cancel it? Probably not. Would the creditor allow you to cancel the agreements we are talking about - the ones which come with a box 'your right to cancel' yes they would. Would the creditor have a leg to stand on if they didn't allow you to cancel in the cancellation period and the case went to court? No.. What right does the judge have to say the agreement is not a cancellable agreement when it was.. personally I don't think he liked Mr Rankine. What you lot think?

Hi CB, I would be very grateful to you if you could let me (us) know where it is written that the 1983 / 1557 regulations "only applicable to the Consumer Credit Act 1974 sections 58,62,63,63 and 64". Where does it say s77/78 are immune from these regs? Thanks alot for your help.

bump

In my case, prior to signing the application, I telephoned the financial institution to discuss the merits of taking the card and they said I should take it, be mad not to. Does that help matters?

My thread here details yet another reason as to why unsigned, cancellable agreements may be completely unenforceable. I just wish some of the more experienced forum members would give their input. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/178739-question-cca-1974-s127.html Regardless, you may find it interesting if you have an unsigned agreement that was signed at home rather than on the bank premises.

Hi jonesyblod, I wasn't aware of that feature but will try it now. Thanks!

last bump

Thanks joneseyblod, I thought that too but am perplexed and a tad disappointed by the lack of response, for or against.

Most unusual not to receive any reply at all!

I am bumping this thread because I think agreements not signed by creditor is very common and if my interpretation of the CCA 1974 is correct then (in the case of cancellable agreements - i.e. not signed at the branch) these agreements are completely unenforecable. What do you think experts?

Hi Caggers, My question relates to an improperly executed agreement (not signed by creditor), the agreement can only be enforced with a court order. "the court may if it thinks just make a declaration that the creditor or owner is not entitled to do that thing" Under what circumstances might the court think it just to make a declaration that the creditor or owner is not entitled to do that thing, and thereby ruling out the possibility of an application for an enforcement order? Anyone know of any caselaw? Any Caggers been succesful with cases filed under s142? I have removed irrelevant passages from the following: 142.—(1) Where under any provision of this Act a thing can be done by a creditor or owner on an enforcement order only, and (b) where no such application has been made, an interested party applies to the court for a declaration under this subsection the court may if it thinks just make a declaration that the creditor or owner is not entitled to do that thing, and thereafter no application for an enforcement order in respect of it shall be entertained. Thank You

Hi Caggers, It is my belief that an a cancellable agreement not signed by the creditor shall not be enforced by a court, on the following basis. CCA 1974 s127(4)(b) states: (4) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) in the case of a cancellable agreement if: (b) section 64(1) was not complied with. s64(1) states: In the case of a cancellable agreement, a notice in the prescribed form indicating the right of the debtor or hirer to cancel the agreement, how and when that right is exercisable, and the name and address of a person to whom notice of cancellation may be given: (a) must be included in every copy given to the debtor or hirer under section 62 or 63, and (b) except where section 63(2) applied, must also be sent by post to the debtor or hirer within the seven days following the making of the agreement. (I don't believe section 63(2) applies to any agreement that hasn't been signed by the lender) On this basis, it appears to me that a cancellable agreement cannot be enforced by a court if it was not signed by the lender. Furthermore, an improperly executed agreement, such as one not signed by the lender is only enforceable by a court order. This leads me to belive a cancellable agreement that has not been signed by the lender is not enforeceable at all. I may be wrong, what do you think?

Thanks a lot fermi.

Hi, My friends sister lives with her mum but owns a flat which she was renting out. The flat is in negative equity and she is well behind with the mortgage payments. The mortgage company is proceeding for reposession which she doesn't mind because it is empty, in negative equity and too expensive for her to live in / keep. If the bank repossesses the flat, and sells it, they will come after her for any shortfall - she also has a load of credit card and loans debt and is considering Bankruptcy. She said she was talking to someone who said mortgage debt is not included if you go bankrupt so although the credit card and loan creditors will no longer persue her she believes the mortgage company will hound her for upto 12 years? Any truth in this? thanks seabro

although them defaulting you whilst they are in default of their obligations would be completely unlawful.

Hi, Can anyone let me know if a lender needs to have the original paper consumer credit agreement if we went to court as opposed to a copy or microfiche print. Can the lender rely on a copy. If no, does anyone you have any links, further reading for me to substantiate the answer? Many Thanks, Seabro

I have a few but this particular one is Marbles (HFC Bank).

Found answer http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/132968-looking-cca-74-quote.html thanks PT! Mods, feel free to delete this thread.

Hi, I received a copy of my CCA in response to a s78 request but it is almost completely illegible. Can anyone tell me where the law states it must be legible? I don't see it under s78 - and a search for 'legible' in the CCA 1974 didn't help either. Your assistance is appreciated. seabro

bank_robber, I have never had anyone try to take me to court after I have told them I will not be paying due to missing CCA. However, if they did and I ignored the letters and did nothing, they would win by default and all of the methods of collection then become possible (charge on house, attachment of earnings, bailiff and so on). On the other hand, if I stay with the plan and submit a defence that the creditor has not complied with my s78 request for example, then I will win - everytime. If the creditor does not have an agreement, you will win. 100% of the time.

Ok, I will stick with £1 for now and see how it goes. When they start demanding payment in full (and they will I am sure!) I will exercise my rights.