Hi,

I mentioned my problem in another thread (http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-consumer-issues/77065-direct-debit-taken-my.html) when I first complained to A&L at the end of July, but I thought I would start a new thread here.

A&L allowed a direct debit to be taken after I had attempted to cancel it, and the 3rd party had given me zero notice that they were going to take £60 more than my previous payments had been. This took me over my overdraft limit and set off a chain reaction of charges which is still rolling and has now cost me over £700 while my complaint remains unresolved. I have complained strongly about the continual application of charges, paticularly after I have registered a complaint.

The only responses I have had from A&L have been letters after four and eight weeks, apologising for taking so long and not much else. The letter I got at the weekend advises me that "if you are not happy to wait for our conclusion, you may wish to refer the matter to the Financial Ombudsman". I wonder whether I should, what my best course of action is..? I want this resolved ASAP and the nine weeks it has so far taken is not acceptable IMHO.

Anyone any thoughts what I should do?

Cheers,

Loz

MBNA have replied regarding my letter(s) asking them for proof that I requested PPI - they have no proof either by way of my signature or recording of the call during which I supposedly agreed to it. They have given me the usual line about the 30 day cancellation period and basically said "tough". I didn't cancel until 18 months had elapsed because I didn't realise what I was (or rather wasn't) paying for, namely cover for mental illness/pre-existing conditions. This information may have been in the blurb they sent but it wasn't explained clearly, which is why I think it may have been mis-sold. Anyone any opinions on this?

On a brighter note, I seem to have got them to refund £100 more than I was claiming in charges, which is nice

Loz

*bump*

Can anybody suggest what I can do?

Loz

Cheers Hedgey

The thing that's bugging me about NatWest's actions, is that the default was not on my credit file until it became "satisfied". That's 3 years they have sat on it, 3 years during which I have been able to get credit OK, and now that I have a need for a decent credit record (I only found out about the default because I was interested in mortgages), I find myself stuffed - it seems I would have been better off in some respects by not clearing the debt at all!!

Aside from mortgages etc, I want to consolidate my credit cards and HSBC loan (spit!) into one loan at a much lower rate, but I cannot. Clearly I will struggle to get credit for the next 2½-3 years unless I can convince the Ombudsman that NatWest have made such a balls-up of this that the default should be considered unfairly issued.

Anyone any thoughts?

Loz

I have a reply from Mrs H Britton (Manager, Customer Care Team):

Thank you for your letter dated 24 July 2007 addressed to my colleague Mrs Straw. This matter has been referred to me as I have managerial responsibility for customer concerns within this Department of the Bank. I am sorry to hear that you are not satisfied with our response and consequently I have undertaken a further review of the situation.

 

You have referred to the information the Bank has recorded on your credit file. You have asked for this to be removed on the basis that it is incorrect and as you have not received a Default Notice (DN) for the sum of £128.00.

 

Having reviewed the information in respect of the above account, I would agree that both the amount of the Default Balance and the Default Date are incorrect. To enable me to verify the Default Balance I ordered copy statements on your account, which I have now received. These confirm that a DN was issued on 4 February 2004 and also on 12 March 2004. The outstanding balances on these dates were £2,784.58 and £2,814.10 respectively. In your letter you have said that you received a DN which referred to a sum of nearly £3,000.00 so the balances quoted confirm what you have said. I enclose a copy of the statements for your perusal.

 

The Bank is obliged to record this information on your credit file so this will not be removed. However, as you are aware, this should be recorded accurately. The DN allows you a period of 28 days to make arrangements to repay your account. If we use the date of 4 February 2004 as the start date, this takes the actual Default Date to 3 March 2004 (ie. 28 days later). Consequently, I have arranged for the following amendments to be made:

 

Default Date - 3 March 2004

Default Balance - £2,829.10

 

The other information will remain the same in that your Current Balance is nil and Fully Satisfied as at 13 June 2007.

 

Please accept my sincere apologies for this error and for any inconvenience this may have caused you. I appreciate that it has been necessary for you to write again but I hope that my letter now clarifies the situation and you feel that your concern has been resolved.

 

In the event that you remain dissatisfied, in order to comply with the terms of the Financial Services Authority, I confirm that you may treat this letter as a "Final Response" for the purposes of the Financial Ombudsman Service.

Well it's an improvement, but it still means this damn default will be on my file for the next two and a half years. I am obviously not happy but I'm not sure what I can do now.

Loz (whose thread title is still inaccurate!)

I only asked about charges at the time - do you think I need to do another SAR to get the proof or should I just ask in a regular letter?

Loz

MBNA have written back about PPI:

I confirm that our records indicate you requested PPC during a telephone conversation that you had with one of our specialists on February 12, 2005... 30 day obligation-free period in which to cancel the policy should it not have met your requirements...

I'm not sure if I can do anything here - I have the blurb which (in relatively small print, right at the end) mentions the cancellation period, but I can't recall such a conversation to arrange it in the first place, nor do I know why I didn't cancel it. There's a lot I can't recall from that period of my life...

Should I ask them for proof of this alleged conversation and take it from there?

Loz

It just occurred to me that if this issue is about the current account / overdraft, rather than the loan, then do sections 87-88 (as I quoted to NatWest) apply? I checked the 3-yr-old default notice and it was served under 76(1) and 98(1) - I read those sections and can't make head nor tail of whether I've made an error or not :-S

Loz

Correct Isiris, they were the insurer... I'm trying to recall exactly what I signed but my mind is blank. You had trouble with this lot?

Loz

Sorry if I wasn't clear - when I wrote to the insurer to cancel the policy I also asked for the credit agreement to be cancelled. Following this I did not hear from the insurer again, just RBS Finsure who sent the letter I mentioned giving me "7 days" notice (more like 0 days) of the balance due. Like I said, I am annoyed that I did not get a chance to argue the toss (even if they are right) before they helped themselves to my money - a sum which was ~£60 more than my monthly payments had been, and sent me over my overdraft limit.

Cheers,

Loz

I didn't default, I asked if I could cancel and they agreed. What I have a problem with is Finsure helping themselves to the money, firstly without sufficient warning (even by the 7 days they specified initially, rather than the 10 working days guideline which most companies stick to), but secondly after I had cancelled the DD.

I am waiting to hear from A&L regarding my complaint

Just looking around for info & opinions re. the Direct Debit Guarantee, wasn't sure of my rights until recently... I was paying for car insurance on credit, sold the car, cancelled the policy and cancelled the DD in April. 1st of May I get a letter from RBS Finsure "blah blah outstanding balance blah blah... this amount will be debited from your bank account seven days after the date of this letter". The letter was dated 23rd of April (!!!) and despite having cancelled the DD Finsure took the money before I had a chance to object.

I understand that I should complain to Alliance & Leicester for allowing this payment after the DD was cancelled, plus the £227 of charges that could be directly attributed to this transaction going through - but do I have any rights re. Finsure? I'm really annoyed that they used most of their 7 day notice period by not posting their letter *grrrr*

Sorry to hijack a little,

Loz

Well they should get my letter today, including a Data Subject Notice - fingers crossed!

I should get the title of this thread amended ;-)

Loz

Thanks again Dave, guess I could have searched more but my brain was getting tired

I think the gist of my argument will be that they cannot claim the default notice was issued in March 2004 but not applied until May 2007 once it was "satisfied", since that notice was for nearly £3k (and I reached a satisfactory arrangement with them by the date specified), and the default registered is for only £128. Therefore they have not complied with s87 / 88 of the CCA1974 and have passed incorrect information to the CRAs. Incorrect data must be removed, and since the contract is now cancelled they have no further right to issue a default.

Does that sound right?

Loz

What I have is a "Formal notice of intention to file a default and take action to recover the debt", dated 11/3/2004; this superceded another notice dated 3/2/2004. They "intend to demand payment.. on or after 25/3/2004" unless I made an acceptable alternative arrangement to pay. Apparently I did make a verbal arrangement of £80 per month which at some point I decided I could afford to increase to £100.

Obviously my issue with all of this is, if they were going to issue a default, why wait until the debt is cleared? If it had been filed at the time then it would obviously have already run for 3 years... Gah!

FWIW Dave I have been following your CCA thread with interest, great work fella!

Loz

I understand that they can't do anything regarding the loan because they could not produce an agreement, but they have defaulted me in relation to the current account, simply because I closed it. What justification is there for registering a default when the account has been (in their own words) "satisfied"?

I checked a couple of times and the default amount according to Experian increased by ~£28 over the course of a month, this amount bears no relation to anything except their monthly charges...

Your suggestion of claiming back payments - maybe once I have sorted the default. I'd feel really cheeky though, since I only got as far as paying back ~£600 of the £5000 I owed!

Hi,

I've had a positive result regarding my CCA request to Natwest (ie. they couldn't produce an agreement), but another problem has appeared with them - would appreciate any advice regarding the default they have registered.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/natwest-bank/62271-trying-get-information-my.html

Cheers,

Loz

Time to update, much has happened regarding NatWest...

As mentioned above, I hit them firstly with a Subject Access Request and then asked for a copy of the loan agreement under the CCA. Neither of these resulted in anything but a few statements, and the cheques for both were cashed. Since they had defaulted my CCA request I stopped paying them.

During this period I also asked for charges which were still being applied to my account which I had recently brought back into credit - managed to get a goodwill offer of about £200 more than i was asking for, nice! I then closed the account.

Having been turned down for a loan (to consolidate other debts and reduce monthly outgoings) and then having to find out if i could get a mortgage, I had cause to check my credit report with Experian. To my horror NatWest have registered a default regarding the closed current account - WTF??

I wrote to them straight away to ask what the hell they were playing at and for the default to be removed since I had done nothing with that account to justify it, and furthermore I had not been notified. I got a reply yesterday which firstly witters on about my loan account and my inability to meet the repayments back in 2004 (true but they haven't explicitly linked it to this default), and also implies that they may have been sending stuff to my old address, though I informed them 18 months ago I had moved. The letter then says (you'll like this!):

I acknowledge that you have been making repayments and that your Current Plus account was closed on 13 June 2007. I also acknowledge that we have agreed not to pursue you further for the outstanding balance on the Loan account as we have been unable to comply with Section 77 of the Consumer Credit Act. However, the Bank is obliged to record the relevant information on your credit file regarding your Current Plus account. Consequently, we are correct in recording a Default and that the balance was satisfied on 13 June 2007.

 

I trust that my letter clarifies the Bank's position for you. However, if you remain dissatisfied then you can ask the Financial Ombudsman ...

What "relevant information"?!? It seems to me that they have decided to record the default that I was threatened with 3 years ago, now that I have paid off that particular debt. Can they do this?

Would appreciate any thoughts before I write back to them.

Loz

Well well, back to this old thread of mine...

I recently did a CCA request on MBNA and all they sent me was one piece of paper (see http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/33174-consumer-credit-act-agreements-398.html#post989064) - no mention of PPI which they were charging until August 2006 when I cancelled it. Have written asking for all the premiums back, plus interest.

I have also decided to go after another 9 x £12 for "late" payments and overlimit fees. The straw that broke the camel's back was last month being penalised for a late payment because their internet service had held on to it for four days!

*rolls eyes*

Loz

The point yu touched on about the salesmand is inteesting did you request a visit or was it canvassed.The latere is prohibited as per section

49 of the act and would render the agreement void. Have a look and see if you qualify ,this is one of the few areas where the oft do enforce.

Hi Peter,

I see the section you mean - they have reps at the airport which was where my application was completed. I presume this counts as "trade premises"..? I dunno

Loz

Joining in with this thread... attached is MBNA's response to my request for "a true copy of our executed agreement and any other related documents", no covering letter or anything else. It's basically the application form which their salesman filled out. There appears to be a signature & date at the top but no indication of what they relate to; there is only partial T&C supplied...

I can't see any reference to PPI, which they were charging me for until I realised it was a waste of space. Will be asking for that back, though I don't have early statements to add it up

Would appreciate any thoughts on whether "their signature" makes the agreement valid or not. Cheers,

Loz

MBNA agreement.doc

Harry,

I don't know about anything else, but you have a case for reclaiming the PPI, plus interest charged on it - they just gave you all the evidence you need!

Loz

It will be a long trek, but ultimately worth it

 

you would not believe what they try to present as an agreement

I've seen other threads and I would not be surprised at anything at all!

Bring it on I say!

Loz

Your letter is excellent IMHO and I am following this thread with interest

Loz (who thinks a CCA request to MBNA might be in order)

That is standard procedure. HSBC should have advised you of that in final response or in their complaints handling literature. You were not informed by HSBC I'd point it out to the FOS and see what they say. (I would be surprised if it isn't in there somewhere though).

I had a quick read through the letters from HSBC and couldn't see any mention of it - will double check tonight... Would it be referred to in the leaflets they sometimes include with such letters? I think I binned them :-/

Loz