He's right, too. Some interesting points here; my own personal bugbear with the level of bank charges is this: Some organisations charge from around £1 to £3 extra on your account (Bt for example, or most mobile phone contracts) if you pay by cheque, or (for goodness sake), cash over the counter instead of paying by direct debit. This, they argue, is because a manual payment costs them more to process. I'm not entirely au-fait with this, but it's a reasonable enough argument. What this does prove is that it costs £3 or less to process a manual payment - obviously much less for a direct debit. How, then, can a bank possibly argue that it costs them £38 (RBS) for a rejected direct debit? What I am getting at is that if various companies are happy with £3 or less to process a manual payment where on earth do the banks get their figures from? Has anybody used this argument?

Good luck. It's my understanding - and I might be completely wide of the mark here - that it is impossible for transactions to be checked "as they happen", this is apparently the reason why most banks will not give anybody with a bad credit rating a debit card - you could, in theory, spend an hour in town and run up dozens of small value transactions adding up to a huge overdraft (even if you have no overdraft limit) before the system picks up on it and starts to refuse the card. That's why you can become overdrawn without realising it.

Shortcut, even.

Hmmm...using the laptop tonight so I have a pound sign - look -> £ ! On my desktop I have an American keyboard, and there is a # sign where the £ sign is on our keyboards. It IS possible to alter the settings to English (UK) instead of English (US), this has worked fine for the past year or so until now. Now what happens is every time I reboot after shutting down it reverts back to the US settings, real pain in the butt as the desktop is the one I type my letters on (since that's the one the printer is attached to). Alt + 156 (tried on the lappy) just made the page jump back to the index page. There is a shotcut, but I can't remember what it is. Sorry to hijack the thread, OP.

Excellent stuff, well done. I've only been here a week or so and my first thoughts were "this is great, now where can I find similar help with rip-offs with loans, mortgages, mobile phone charges, utilitity companies etc." You've got it all in hand, and although I haven't had time to take any action yet, I am more inspired and more inclined to do so now. I will admit that, mostly due to lack of time and ill health, I tend to moan about these injustices but rarely get around to doing anything about it. This site will change all that for me and I'm sure for thousands of others.

Worth a try. Abbey took us to court a few years ago for repossession. We got a reprieve, but they were charging us a fortune in charges and solicitors fees and I argued with them that even though we had agreed a repayment schedule with them, their fees were actually increasing the debt. I complained and got 1,200 (pounds, sorry don't have a pound sign on my keyboard) in solicitors fees reduced by half. It was particularly annoying as there was only about 5,000 owing on the mortgage at the time but for two or three years the amount we owed was actually going up. On a second occasion they took us to court even though I offered them 500 of the 900 arrears the day before, again we got a reprieve but the unneccesary court hearing added another 600 to the account. On that occasion, 24 hours before the case the Abbey argued that the case was in ther hands of their solicitors and they could not do anything to stop it. Their solicitors on the other hand argued that they were simply following the Abbey's instructions and could not (or would not) stop the action unless Abbey told them to. I would love to claim because I've paid thousands in excess charges and solicitors fees (just paid off the 3,500 balance but paid more than that in fees and charges in the last few years). My main argument is that contrary to the (volutary) mortgage code they offered us no help whatsoever and charged us fortunes.

Count me in. As was said earlier, it's not about the money (we never had it in the first place), it's about the injustice of it all. What really gets under my skin is the unfair charges, administration fees, late payment charges etc. by ALL companies, not just banks. Whenever these put you overdrawn or behind with payments, these play havoc with your credit rating and cost you more in higher loan interest rates etc. So the unfair actions of one bank or company may affect your credit rating and cost you more with other companies. That's all wrong.

Although the cause is admirable, those type of links are not allowed on ebay, free or not, and may get you suspended. However, why put 300 p&p in the first place? Makes it look like a [problem] straight away.

Surely they must then issue ALL their customers with the same warning? Otherwise it's victimisation! As far as churn rate is concerned, it is true that in big businesses that it is accepted that customers will come and go for a variety of reasons, but these companies try to keep it within a certain percentage. A LOT of customers leaving over a short period of time would be more of a worry, but I would assume that, within a small percentage, most of the big banks gain as many customers as they lose. However, the small working class customer is of no real concern - refunding a few of us a few hundred quid is a drop in the ocean to them, and it probably makes good business sense to do so. Although they would obviously be hurt if everybody claimed back their charges, as it stands it is not costing them much anyway (remember they are not actually giving you anything, merely refunding charges they had placed on the account in the first place). To defend it in court would cost them a whole lot more, especially their legal expenses and that combined with the associated potential loss of business through the consequent bad publicity, is probably the real reason why those who had tried to recoup their bank charges have probably had a modicum of reltively hassle-free success to date. So far so good then for all concerned then, but hopefully this site and others like it will help more and more people to make it a better day for us and a change in fortune for the banks and an end to their greed.

It might be worth asking under what circumstances they think they are entitled to keep your money and not provide the service you (or whoever) have paid for. Be persistent, they don't like awkward questions! It might be worth "blagging" them into thinking you have spoken to Trading Standards and telling them that TS think you have a case. Failing that, speak to Trading Standards anyway, a quick call from them has got me refunds in the past where the company concerned has previously turned me down.

The CCTV comment was meant to be a little tongue-in-cheek, but I'm rather surprised that the banks apparently do not accept verbal instructions as I have cancelled many transactions both in-branch and over the phone, regardless of whether or not I have phoned the branch and via the telephone banking service. It seems strange to me that the bank regularly accept my verbal instructions is this is not permissable.

Hmmm...interesting point since many companies often insist that a DD is set up as a method of payment. Some insist upon it, mortgage and loan companies for example, whilst some charge an extra £1 or so if you choose not to pay by DD. I'm now wondering if the compulsory DD instruction is legal too.

Don't underestimate the use of the above site for "normal" landline numbers even if they normally publish a local call rate 0845 or even a freephone number. If, like many people, you are out and about - at work for example - during the day, 0845 and even 0800 freephone numbers are often charged at normal rates from your mobile phone. This may even be more than the rate charged by the mobile company for standard landline numbers, and in most cases if you are on contract with inclusive minutes 08xx numbers are charged for, NOT included in your inclusive minutes. The site will often throw up an 0800 number too as an alternative to the 0845/0870 number the bank give you. Well worth bookmarking.

I have to admit that I think the amount of money the banks spend on glossy advertising is ridiculous. In years gone by banking was considered to be a utility; as was gas, electricity, and so on. There was no need to advertise them. It's ridiculous now. United Utilities spend millions advertising their water services in my area. Why? I can't switch to an alternative supplier, there isn't one! Now it's all about luring the punters in just like the competing gas and electricity companies do. They advertise their banking services as though they were advertising a new car or something. All this competition was supposed to benefit us, the consumer. Instead, the companies and their shareholders are getting richer and we are paying record prices for gas, electricity, oh, and bank charges.

3-4 days? Just opened a basic account at the Halifax and discovered it takes a week (deposited Tuesday, clears next Tuesday). That's 5 working days not including the day you paid it in!

ALL banks now have to offer what is known as a basic bank account by law. My understanding of it is this: Employers are allowed to pay your wages into the bank by law. Maggie Thatcher brought this rule in. However, this was causing problems for people going back to work who had, for example, been unemployed. Many people could not get a bank account and there were many stories in the press about people not being able to get a job because they couldn't get a bank account. So a few years ago a law was brought in stating that everybody should be able to open a basic bank account. These accounts must offer free basic banking services, direct debits, standing orders etc and an ATM (cash machine) card, but there is no obligation to provide a debit card, overdraft or cheque book. I have an RBS Key account, which is basically as described above but also offers free online banking where you can set up bill payments, transfers to other accounts, direct debits etc, and cancel the same. It's a very good service. Tip: Once you have the account up and running you can apply for an Instant Access Savings Account. Basicaly the same as the above BUT you get a cheque book too (still no debit card though) and a little more interest - largely irrelevant if you never have much in your account. £50 opening deposit required but worth it for the cheque book. Very good for those (like me) with a bad credit rating but........ A WORD OF WARNING!!!! bounce a direct debit and the charges are horrendous! £38 an item. I found this site because having bounced a few payments I incurred over £360 I charges inside 2 weeks, and was looking for a way to fight back.

Fantastic info, thanks! That explains the footnote on the bank's (unsatisfactory) letter in reply to my complaint: "To ensure you have ample time to consider our comments, we will keep your file open for eight weeks. If you wish to take your complaint further, we would be grateful if you could let us know within this time." Care Team Advisor, RBS, Glasgow.

Ah, but this could be to my advantage. My take on this is that if the bank deems it is acceptable to cancel a direct debit simply by verbally asking a cashier to do it for you (and obviously they do or they would not allow it but I have cancelled DD's this way for many years), then they must equally accept that it is possible that they made a mistake. In otherwords I could counterclaim that they had no proof that I didn't ask for the DD to be cancelled. I suppose I could always ask for a copy of the CCTV tape for evidence? Thanks for the advice.

Very interesting post. Last year I placed an ad in Thomsons Directory, but then fell ill and couldn't repay them the £777 owing. Even though I explained the situation, Thomson passed it on to a debt collection agency, who phoned me up incessantly. It was always the same guy, a real motormouth and very intimidating (and I'm not easily intimidated) and he would phone up, we would argue for several minutes (I would stick with my stance of refusing point blank to discuss anything about the account over the phone, nothing more, nothing less). I would eventually have to hang up and he would then repeatedly ring back non-stop, often for a dozen times or more. This went on for about five weeks and at it's peak I recieved over 100 calls in two weeks. I also recieved about 25 letters from the same firm during this period. I eventually asked BT for help and they offered me a service called, I think, "choose to refuse". When somebody calls it gives you the option to block all future calls from that number. You just type 14258 into the p[hone, and there number is then blocked. This is very useful if you get a lot of sales or collectors calls. There is a small monthly charge, about £6 I think, for the service but it stops a lot of calls.

Er, perhaps I'm missing something, but if the redemption date isn't filled in, surely they don't know it's out of date unless you tell them?

I read somewhere recently (in The Times, I think) that customer complaints makes up less than 1% of a bank's recieved mail. I can only assume that refund requests are not classed as complaints.

I'm not the expert on here, but one thing concerns me - why was it impossible to stop the standing order? That doesn't sound right to me, I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure the bank can't legally overrule your instructions to stop a standing order.

Tip, for obvious reasons, please remove your initials from the end of your post! Great to have you here, I'm new myself and I was very interested in your post. For the first part, this is exactly what happened to me (just posted my particular problem in this forum), but as for the second issue - that managers are only allowed to refund up to £50 - that explains to me why a few months ago he refunded me for one failed DD charge (£38 ) but not a second one which failed on the same day.

Before going ahead, I though I would seek a little more advice here. I have read the FAQs and help pages, but I've only just found this site and there's a lot to get through. Back in January, the RBS charged me £114 for 3 failed direct debits. This took my account, a basic "Key" account, overdrawn (no overdraft facility). The first two failed direct debits were from the same company, Welcome Finance, who had a second attempt a few days after the first had failed. The third charge was for another direct debit which had failed due to insufficient funds caused by the first two charges. However I had already previously cancelled the Welcome Finance Direct Debit instruction verbally in the branch, and the cashier, as far as I knew, cancelled them there and then on his terminal and told me, "That's done for you now Sir". I didn't see the screen myself (Yeah, I know, put everything in writing) Initially I complained by phone to the RBS via the online banking service., stating that the charges had been made in error as I had previously cancelled the DD a month ago and that the 3rd charge was as a result of insufficient funds due to the first two charges as stated above. I asked them to refund me under the terms of the direct debit guarantee which says "If the originator or the bank/building society makes an error, the customer is guaranteed a full and immediate refund of the amount paid", but they are claiming that the DD guarantee doesn't apply in this case as the payment wasn't actually made, and the charges were due to the fact that there was insufficient funds to make the payment. I then pointed out that the DD guarantee didn't mention WHICH payment had been made, and in this case a payment was made from me to themselves in the form of bank charges, and that these charges should not apply since the DD had been cancelled. They argued that I should have cancelled it with the company too, but the DD guarantee doesn't say so in it's rule. It simply says: "Customers can cancel a direct debit at any time by writing to their bank or building society". More charges have now been added, and my other RBS account has now been rendered unusable (only £6 in it) as they have told me that any balance in this account will be transferred to the other, effectively forcing me to pay if I try to deposit funds in this second account. In addition, my internet banking service has been suspended. No explanation has been given for this.

Nice one! "Chocolate fireguard" is the version I know btw, but I prefer "AS much use as an ashtray on a motorbike" or "a cat flap on a submarine"