I posted a thread exactly like this on NTL a couple of months ago. I have settled it with NTL to my satisfaction ANYBODY who finds any justification in this tax should not be on this board, because they do not support the choice of the consumer, and they are gullible enough to believe the poor logic of companies which are violating the right of choice in their customers. We have the same group of people posting here to this thread, some with ignorance, others who have not listened to the poster. point 1 - There is NO DD DISCOUNT, just a tax of 4 pound if you dont do it their way. That amounts to a company bullying us, not bribing us to think their way. Point 2 - When did a company have the right to start charging us for the inconvenience of accepting our payments.If we accept this, whats next, I pay a surcharge for the electrical signals going into my cable box, I pay a surcharge for the NTL staff taking sick days? Point 3 - Every time I spoke to NTL staff they told me all of the other companies are doing this too. I asked them if they had ever tried telling a police officer that they were not the only ones speeding on the motorway, and that there are others going faster. At that time NTL people had a long pause, then transferred me to somebody else. Their training does not involve witty responses to real life logic. After many phone calls I spoke to the disconnection people asking to disconnect me if they couldnt remove my non DD charges. At that time it was 30 pounds of backdated charges. in the absence of any real legal defence of our position, the best response seems to be to ring the company and tell them you want to be disconnected. That still works.

After about 4 phone calls, I have convinced NTL to stop charging me non direct debit charges of 4 pounds per month. I was told a couple of times the computer system to access my account was down, which I wonder if is a strategy they might use to avoid dealing with difficult issues. The ease at which the customer retention operator deleted non DD charges tells me that this fee only exsists because MOST PEOPLE PAY IT! Although I have now saved 48 pounds per year of bill bullying, I think it is still really important to make this issue very public, so that most people stop paying it. some interesting parts of the discussion included NTL operator "we are not the only ones charging the four pounds, most companies now charge it". I suggested to her that when you are caught speeding on the motorway, telling the police officer that you arent the only one speeding and that lots of drivers are doing it, is not going to be acceptable logic to the policeman.

Just an idea, there seem to be similar companies listed time and time again for bad service. Might it be a good idea for this forum to post a "blacklist" which summarises companies and services, in order of the number of people on this forum who have had problems? Any large business has the occasional disgruntled customer, but one with complaints from many different customers should get the fame they deserve:rolleyes: On a more positive note a list of recomended companies, who have resolved issues more quickly. Just an idea.

Ironicaly, I phoned sky three times yesterday before reading this post, with the intention of signing up (to dump NTL). I spent 20 minutes on the phone each time, and still didnt get through. They lost a potential customer. Is it just an incredible coincidence that both NTL and sky have the same fees for non direct debit payments? resembles price fixing.

I can appreciate that what you guys are saying may be the only legal way to win this, but WTF. I will never pay for the privelege of paying. zero, not even the actual costs incured by the business, because it is their job. If we accept this, then it will keep going. Imagine if we even had to pay for customer service and to phone up with service questions. oh yes, we already do. Then imagine if even though we pay for the customer service, we have to wait over 30 minutes on the phone, only to speak to someone who cant answer the question.

The issue arrises again, that direct debit has a lot of problems and that it takes an enormous amount of power away from the consumer. It seems blindly supported by the majority, but questioned by a lot of sensible people. Can one of the administrators of this board make some kind of suggested action, so that all of us who are sick of both the immorality and perhaps the illegality of blackmailing consumers into setting up a direct debit, is challenged.

Thanks Okonski, that is a good solution. I have been calling up, and paying over the phone my bill, minus the fee. Speaking to the NTL payment people seems to be the only way to do this. I now owe them four months of non DD fees and rising. Last time I paid I was told I may be charged a late payment fee for not paying the non DD fee. Hmm, a fee on a fee. I really dont want to look for a new internet provider, since at least the product is acceptable with NTL, and it sounds like a lot of others are not. So I need to speak to the disconnections department, and negotiate to stay only if I get credited 4 pound per month, and then pay the full amount?

ummm, yeah. I know the supermarket pay their staff, but I dont pay an extra four pounds everytime I use their services. The cost is subtly in my shopping. What you might have missed is that the price of your phone bill didnt drop when they started direct debit. All they did was sack a lot of staff who take the payments, whilst maintaining their profits. Some companies eg NPower offer a direct debit discount. This is an incentive to pay, not a punishment for paying the traditional way. Interestingly, I have also found their staff far happier and more relaxed on the phone. Interesting that they say it costs them money to take my payment. I suspect it costs them more not to take my payment. Furthermore, an online payment is little more than an electrical signal between computers. Even if you allow for the most unmotivated accounts person to process my payment, it cant take more than 5 minutes of adminisration. 12 x 4 pounds. this person at NTL is earning 48 pounds per hour. I dont think so. The fact that so many consumers accept this logic is very, very disturbing to me. I suspect that somebody who cares enough could win a court case on this, and perhaps reverse the trend.

Can anybody tell me if it is completely legal for companies to blackmail me into paying by direct debit? Most companies are now charging a non direct debit fee. I left orange for charging 2 pounds 50 per month, and NTL want 4 pounds per month. In conversation over the phone I have asked sales representitives, why they are "charging me to pay them" They tell me it is to cover their proccessing fees. But shouldnt a company be responsible for their own expenses. I pay them for their service, and paying my bill is not a service. Imagine having to pay the checkout assistant in a supermarket for the pleasure of shopping there! Imagine if I had to pay them to take my money! It is thankfully still up to the supermarket to pay their staff. Why not so with phone services, pay TV and other services?