Thank you for that background to the DCA industry. I think, perhaps, you underestimate the extent to which Government action is destroying the financial sector. Think about the Government help to homeowers yesterday for example. The measures nullify an entire body of law and it’s evident that lenders have not thought through the consequences. Important letters will become laughable. Dear Borrower We are proper, proper going to secure a suspended order for possession this time. Be in no doubt, we are dead serious and mean business. Regards Lender

Hi Dx The property is not going to be sold for 30 years, i'll will settle this at 20% no problem at some convenient point in the next ten years. I have a strong feeling that most debt collection firms are going to bust out anyway in the next few years, castrated by the Government. Enforcement only works on a 'naughty' ten percent, not most of the population. A couple of years after the group of companies is no more, it is easy to apply to court and have the charging order removed. I managed this recently with a private school that unfortunately went bust

Hi Dx CCJ in one name, who singly owns property outright. Yes, I know that does give them more degrees of freedom, and that CCJs never expire and can be enforced at any time. At the same time, I'm pretty sure they know jack about the origins of the original debt and I would probably run with a story that it was paid off years ago to the original debt management firm and the interim order was mistakenly left on the address. its for them to prove otherwise after 15 years of inaction. My main line of questioning was about the legitimacy of added interest at this stage, which i am pretty certain cannot be added (the singly owned property an irrelevance in relation to that matter). By the way DX, that tradesperson paid up on judgment within the 28 days, so i ended up quids in as the breach of contract was not contested.

Judgment debtor paid within 28 days of judgment, so my application for an interim charging order was premature. Case closed.

Hi Dx CCJ in one name, who singly owns property outright. Yes, I know that does give them more degrees of freedom, and that CCJs never expire and can be enforced at any time. At the same time, I'm pretty sure they know jack about the origins of the original debt and I would probably run with a story that it was paid off years ago to the original debt management firm and the interim order was mistakenly left on the address. its for them to prove otherwise after 15 years of inaction. My main line of questioning was about the legitimacy of added interest at this stage, which i am pretty certain cannot be added (the singly owned property an irrelevance in relation to that matter). It is interesting that they threaten to add interest from some date in the medium future rather than adding immediately, a leverage move that they know ultimately cannot be applied. By the way DX, that tradesperson paid up on judgment within the 28 days, so i ended up quids in as the breach of contract was not contested.

Thanks for link Andy, a similar kind of scenario. I shall stick to my plan of going to them in 10 years time as a skint old duffer and negotiate twenty pence in the pound as full and final settlement. The timing is very important of course, if I leave it too late they'll just wait for me to throw a seven. I looked at my credit file today, and have a nice score of just under 700 with Clear Score, with no record of old CCJs on file - I didn't know that they dropped off the file just like non-judgment debts after 6 years!

Hi Everyone A letter has arrived from Overdales for a 15 year old CCJ for which an interim charging order on my home was made also 15 years ago. The debt has been passed from pillar to post since then through various debt management firms, and I've had no contact with any firm about the debt for all this time (and certainly not Overdales and the client Lowell who are now in touch). I want to ignore this letter, but they are proposing to start adding interest in a few months time. Can I safely ignore this letter on the basis that they could never enforce the interest when I eventually settle for a knock down amount in a few years time?

...as for Dx, he has the knowledge to write a fiendish application for a charging order that will have even a debtor in joint ownership begging for an instalment plan. We both know that, but he and the site will never go public with anything meaningful.

Honeybee, county courts are fast becoming a cul-de-sac for plebs to throw away money, the great and the good seeking justice elsewhere. Without justice, disorder will prevail. Has it never concerned you that whilst district judges hand down judgment, they have no power to enforce judgment upon a savvy debtor? I would even go as far as to say that the judicial system is today knowingly misleading the masses, taking fees for applications for a charging order that cannot result in a legal charge on the property.

DX, I'm afraid this has become a fishing expedition by the both of us and therefore will lead nowhere. The point that I would like to make is that you know very well that the wording applied to the deeds when making a charging order on a debtor's home can change the security of the debt from 0% to 100%. Your 'me no speakadee English' strategy is not working, and I'm going to assume hereonin that you have a vested interest in getting these builders and car salesmen off the hook rather than delivering consumers their druthers.

So there exists a superman, no cash in the bank, no earnings, a trashy home with nothing of value and holding joint proprietorship of that home with his wife, operating beyond the law because the courts are powerless to enforce payment by any means?

Yes. He is not the sort of chap that would leave cash in the bank .

DX, I see my last post made your ears prick up ! You are quite right, a standard restriction K can be entirely ignored at property sale providing that the conveyancing team are instructed accordingly. However, with a variation in wording at the second hearing, the charging order is a powerful tool in protecting a creditor's money. I am a CAG forumite and have come here looking for help. Will you help me find justice by recommending the wording I put before a judge at the application hearing, or do you want "thousands of builders and car salesman to carry on getting away with it"?

a judgment creditor should seek a court order for a non-standard restriction to be entered against title to the property at the second hearing when the charging order is made final. The non-standard notice should require 14 days’ advance notice of any proposed disposition to be given to the judgment creditor. This would enable the judgment creditor sufficient time to obtain an undertaking that their debt will be paid upon completion of the sale, i.e. before the proceeds are paid over to the seller and their restriction (and security) is removed.

dx, the guy is potless and only has the property as an asset. I will get the money one day when the property is sold, and as I said, hope that the judge squeezes him hard for installments in order to turn down my application for an order for sale. his home is a dive with a couple of tellies, he has no savings, no regular income, so why are you keen on sending consumers through useless hoops that clearly will not work? the more i see of the county court system, it is a fee grabbing monopoly sponsored by law firms and CAG

Thanks dx100uk, just wondering whether you read my last post. I was suggesting that just the threat of an order for sale at hearing should be enough to have an errant debtor stick to an installment plan.

Yes, he was named as defendant. He is self employed and the payments I made went to his personal bank account, there is no disputing the link between judgment and his personal assets. As for your comments about enforcement, yes it's well known that bailiffs turning up to crappy homes with nothing worth more than a hundred quid, or applying to attach to invisible earnings is a complete waste of time! At least my method will rope his missus in at the earliest stage because she is notified of the charging order and the ensuing application for order for sale. That is when jack the lad suddenly faces up to his responsibilities and sticks to an installment plan. I may not be his first ccj, but i know i am the first to take out a charging order because the only charge on the property is from his lender. you are quick to poo-poo a perfectly reasonable plan.

Thanks dx100uk. Whether or not an order for sale is made is not the point, it's the process of creating ructions between man and wife that will see an installment plan agreed in court and adhered to, but i'm sure that you know that. The process is there to put the fear of God into tough guy judgment debtors, nothing more. I'm probably going to go with the N316 option before posting the order for sale application, perhaps I can find out not just about income and expenditure of the defendant, but also details of his mortgage account and the equity therein. Thanks for answering everything but my question dx100uk

He owns the home with his wife. There have been cases of orders for sale being made even with joint ownership, in circumstances where the judgment debtor makes no attempt to pay the debt.

Hi dx100uk He has no demonstrable earnings, and certainly no relationship with HMRC. Bailiffs will find nothing of value. The home is the viable enforcement option, and the facts that 1) this is a trade debt (not a family finance hiccup) and 2) he has made no effort to pay the ccj , will encourage the judge to order the sale. Is there anyway of getting hold of his credit file?

Hi there. I have secured a CCJ against a builder with a charging order against his home. I am pursuing an order for sale and must provide details of the equity he holds in the property. Without his credit file, that is going to be difficult. Do I have a right to access his private financial details in these circumstaces, or must I engage a legal professional to conduct this work?