As far as mortgage company are aware. It is an ongoing case. There is no judgement.

This 146 has been sent to them AFTER the mistake was realised by the court and rectified. This was also recieved AFTER the copy of form n180 was sent to me by PDC (the DCA) so they are definitely aware that there is no judgement, yet they have sent this claim to my mortgage company irrespective.

I’m guessing to try to continue to scare me with rapidly escalating charges that have not been realised in court.

My concern is with what my mortgage company are saying that they may seek solicitor advice if I continue to dispute the claim and charge the fees to me.

Can they do this?

In simply defending my case.

No doubt the DCA are trying all they can do get the money and make up more fees along the way as after all they are claiming £2200 of made up fees already in court and now made up another £1600 to boot

Phoned my bank and asked them to not make the payment.

I have received a letter from my bank stating the following:

“Thank you for your call to our customer service team. Our understanding of your request is you are currently disputing the charges demanded from legal indemnity and have asked that we do not make payment.

Firstly thank you for contacting us with your concerns.

Whilst we do not wasn’t to prejudice your position, legal indemnity have served the enclosed section notice.

This means that if charges are not paid by the prescribed time within the section notice, they can then issue court proceedings to take possession of your home.

If you continue with your dispute we may need to refer this to our solicitors to protect the security your property represents to the bank and also prevent you from losing your home. If this course of action becomes necessary you will be liable for the costs involved and these will be added to your mortgage balance.

The enclosed section notice sent by legal indemnity gives me a notice under section 146 of the law of property act.

We legal indemnity of [removed.dx] duly authorised agents for Hine hall management.

Hereby give you notice that:

1 by a lease dated 12 December 1988 and made between zodecco limited (1) and Patrick Kwangju liu (2) the property known as ********* was demised unto the said Patrick kwobg liu for a term of 999 years from the 24th June 1988 at the rent and subject to the other outgoings Theron stated.

2. The reversion of the said lease is now vested in Hine Hall management limited.

3. The residue of the term of the said lease is now vested in Hine Hall management limited.

4. The said lease contains covenants by the lesser, inter alia, as set out in the attached schedule hereto.

5. There have been breaches of the above-mentioned covenants in that:

You have failed to pay arrears of service charge of £2150, and legal costs of recovery of £217 and pdc collection fees of £299.95 comprised within a judgement of county court money claims centre. Claim number **** dated 26 September 2018

6. You are hereby required to remedy said breaches that may be capable of remedy and to make compensation in money to the landlord in the sum of £2667 AND IN ADDITION to pay the costs of their agents in the sum of £1150 for the preparation of this notice and disbursement’s of £25 (£1175) within a period of 14 days from the date hereof.

7. If you fail to comply with the above requirements within the period of 14 days from the date hereof it is the intention of the landlord to proceed to enforce rights to re-enter upon the demised premises and to claim damages for breach of the said covenants.

They they proceed to give me NOTICE under section 81 of the housing act and state some parts of the act.

I don’t know how to proceed and really need help in how and who I should respond to as insofar that I was aware there cannot do this without first getting a judgement from the court.

Also how am I to be forced to pay legal fees from my mortgage when I’m only trying to protect my interests.

I do NOT owe Hine Hall management this money as it was paid prior to the DCA making a court claim.

They just didn’t communicate with each other.

This claim and additional charges been laid on top are made up numbers the DCA are trying to get from me.

Can my mortgage company force me to pay their legal costs?

Any help would be really appreciated as I’m unsure how to proceed.

I phoned my mortgage company and told them not to pay, giving the reason being that it is now a defended court case.

The person I spoke to only was someone who writes notes on the account and I apparently never get to speak to anyone who makes decisions therefore I need to phone back again to see what the outcome is.

I read the link but must be missing something as I didn’t see anything that I might find useful

Is this normal practice once a case is being defended in court for it to be claimed through a back door?

I’m confused and worried that my mortgage company might pay it and add it to my mortgage.

I imagine a court date won’t be scheduled for months yet.

I had hoped I would simply go to court, show them evidence I had paid and job done

Have PDC law contacted the insurers for the mortgage?

And where has the extra £1600 come from?

There was no breakdown whatsoever.

Sorry for all the questions but I’m so confused.

Happy to read other articles/threads with similar situations or information as I know you guys will be busy but struggling to find them.

I sent off the form n180 in good time and have received the copy of the form from PDC law

now as I suspected might well happen I have a letter from my mortgage company saying that a company called ‘legal indemnity’ are saying I owe £3842 for outstanding charges on my property which is another £1600 on top of what they are claiming I owe them on their court claim!!

I will phone my mortgage company on Monday to tell them this is a court case now and they should not pay it but I mean what the hell! Are they even allowed to do this once they themselves have already escalated it to a court claim?

And not only that but add even more phantom charges?

I’m assuming legal indemnity is another division of PDC law.

How can I make them stop doing stuff like this?

I’m worried I’ll miss one of these letters sooner or later and my mortgage company will simply pay them.

Just the judgement atm, I’ll be sending form n180 off this weekend for round 2. Guy on other end of courts phone was very pleasant and reassuring.

Small update, rang the court today and the judgement letter was a mistake, it has been stricken off and there is no judgement as it stands. One worried ruined evening for nothing :/ but at least it’s solved

Damnit no, I knew I’d forget something checked and double checked I’d done everything. It seems I needed to triple check :/ can I still ask for this or is it too late? Presumably the claimant will also have received 2 letters.

Hopefully they will just realise they made an error with me as well and change judgement but considering how stressful these cases are you’d have thought they should deal with it correctly in the first place :/

Yes it was with Salford court

Thank you for your swift reply. I will prepare the 3 copies of form n180 tomorrow and will go ahead and ring the court in the morning to try to find out what’s up.

The claim form does not have a MCOL password that I can see. Should I make a MCOL acc myself?

How did it go the last time this mistake had happened?

I sent my defence and have now received two letters.

Neither of which were sent to my current address where I live.

I updated the contact details on my defence form.

The first letter dated 19th September 2018 states it is now a defended case and have said the case is suitable for allocation to the small claims track. They have also given me form n180 to reply and send back to them by 17th October 2018. And file it with the court office.

The second letter dated 26th September 2018 has said I have not replied to the claim form and judgement is made to the full amount of £2368.

How can this happen??

I will try ringing the court money claims centre tomorrow but am concerned that this judgement will now stand unless I pay to apply to have it set aside as a cost of a few hundred pounds when it wasn’t my error.

A few years ago the freehold for the entire complex went up for sale and it was required that we as leaseholders be given first opportunity to purchase it between us.

I along with over 50% of the other owners of a lease purchased it between us and I now own the freehold for my flat and a portion of the grounds.

A guy in the complex organised it all via solicitors for all the leaseholders at the time.

I have to date received no certificate or documentation although the last time I saw him he said it was all with the solicitors and It was all sorted but he would write out some certificates when he gets time, The certificates won’t mean anything other than having a bit of paper.

I’m guessing the change of lease to freehold will be on the land registry and I will be trying there thank you for reminding me of this.

On another note, I contacted my original managing agent of the property and they received my payment and I do not owe them anything.

it seems they and the DCA have not communicated with each other prior to escalating the case to a court claim.

No doubt the DCA will claim they sent me multiple letters that they never actually sent.

Property debt collection (the DCA)

Thx Andy. In their notice of claim, they have attached a copy of a pre action protocol that they sent to me, yet I do not recall having recieved it.

Whilst not totally sure, I’m pretty sure I never had one.

They have it dated for 12th March.

I find this very strange as they had the debt referred to them by Hine hall on March 6th,

would they as newly appointed DCA really have had their first contact with me as a pre action protocol?

Also their PDC instruction fee of £250 isn’t dated and just says n/a. Is this normal?

Have I completed the form suggested to me correctly? It seems very lengthy to have done it verbatim. Sorry for that.

Name of the Claimant ?

Hine Hall management limited

Date of issue – top right hand corner of the claim form – this in order to establish the time line you need to adhere to.

Date of issue: 29/08/2018

Date of issue + 19: 14/09/2018

Date of issue + 33: 28/09/2018

Particulars of Claim

What is the claim for – the reason they have issued the claim? Please type out their particulars of claim in full (verbatim) less any identifiable data and round the amounts up/down.

Outstanding arrears of reserve fund and service charge.

value £2150.99

1. The claimant is the freeholder of the property known as ********* Hine Hall mapperley Nottingham. A copy of the leasehold title is attached as Annex A

2. The defendant is the holder of the leasehold interest in respect of the property.

3. The property is subject to a lease demand dated 12 December 1988 (the lease) made between (Sodexo ltd and (2) Patrick Ma Kwangju Liu for a term of 999 years from 24 June 1988. A copy of the lease is attached herein at Annex B.

4,the claimant is entitled to enforce the terms of the lease against the defendant and will rely on the lease for its full terms and effect at trial. The lease includes the following covenants:

‘Service charge’ by clauses 5(b)(i) and (ii) of the lease, the lessee hereby covenants with the lesser and with the owners and lessees of the other flats comprised in the building and leased by the lessor that the lessee will at all time hereafter: to contribute and pay 1.056% per an of the costs expenses outgoings and matters mentioned in the fifth schedule Herero, the contribution under paragraph (i) of this clause for each year shall be estimated by the lessor (whose decision shall be final) as soon as practicable after the beginning of each year of the term and the lessee shall pay the estimated contribution in two instalments in the first day of July and the first day of January in every year of the term.

‘Reserve fund’ by clause 12 of the fifth schedule of the lease any reserve funds shall be kept in separate accounts any interest s on or income of the said funds which shall (after deduction of tax) be added to the funds which shall be held by the lessor and shall only be applied in accordance with the terms of the schedule.

‘Costs’ by clause 3(d) of the lease, to pay all costs charges and expenses (including solicitors costs and aurveyors fees) incurred by the lessor for the purposes of or incidental to the preparation and service of a notice under section 146 of the law of property 1925 notwithstanding forfeiture may be avoided otherwise than by relief granted by the court.

Particulars of breach

5. The claimant instructed a managing agent. Warwick estates property management limited to manage the development on their behalf (‘the agent’). In accordance with the claimants obligations, the claimant via its agent issued demands for the reserve fund and service charge in the sum of £719.99

6. The defendant has breached the terms of the lease by failing to make payment to the claimant for the sums detailed in paragraph 5 above.

7. In an effort to limit its costs, the agent issued reminder letters to the defendant requesting they remedy their breach and make payment of the reserve fund and service charge.

8.. the defendant failed to respond and/or make payment on recipes of the reminder letters and the claimant instructed via the agent a debt collection company, property debt collection limited (‘the DCA’) to recover the outstanding sums.

9. The DCA issued further letters to the defendant requesting payment of the reserve fund and service charge together with administration fees of £592.00 incurred by the claimant for its instruction. The DCA has also put the defendant on notice that the claimant reserves its postition in respect of forfeiture of the lease. There is attached as Annex C a statement of the account detailing the sums claimed. 10. The claimant seeks to recover all administration fees incurred by both agent and the DCA from the defendant pursuant to the provisions contained within the lease. The claimant will rely on the costs provision detailed in paragraph 4, other provisions in the lease at trial and/or any other statutory right to recover administration fees and costs.

11. The claimant has complied with the pre-action protocol for debt claims. A copy of the letter of claim is attached as Annex D.

12. The claimant has further incurred costs of £840 and will continue to incur legal costs which are contractually payable under the costs provision.

Particulars

13. The claimant seeks a determination pursuant to section 81 of the housing act 1996 that:

A. The reserve fund and service charge of £718.99 is payable by the defendant; and

B. The administration fees of £592 are payable by the defendant; and

C the claimants costs incurred of £840 are payable by the defendant.

And the claimant claims

1. £718.99 in respect of reserve fund and service charge;

2. £592.00 In respect of administration fees;

3. £840 in respect of contractual costs.

4. A determination that paragraphs 1-3 are owed by the defendant to the claimant.

5. Contractual costs.

Dated 25 June 2018

Address for service PDC law

Unit 2a Centrus

Mead lane

Hertford

SG137GX

Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ?

What is the total value of the claim?

£2150.99

£2345.99 including court fee if £115 and legal representative cost of £80

Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account?

No it is for service charges for a flat

When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ?

I signed the agreement for the lease before April 2007. A few years ago a then purchased the freehold.

Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ?

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim.

It is being issued via a DCA -property debt collection who are acting on behalf of Warwick estates who in turn are managing the property for Hine Hall management.

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment?

No notice of assignment was given. But a letter prior saying that if it wasn’t paid then it may be passed to a DCA.

Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor?

Yes

Why did you cease payments?

I wasn’t living at my flat and forgot to make the payment in time

What was the date of your last payment?

12 April 2018 £988.99

Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved?

I paid the original creditor £988.99 which includes all the service charge. Reserve fund all of the administration costs including £180 instruction fee but not the £250 PDC instruction fee

I just put the £988.99 into their account via bank transfer which is my method of payment to them for the last 18 years. I heard nothing from either the Warwick estates nor the DCA since before I paid the amount into their account 18 April and had considered it done with.

I omitted the £250 DCA charge that they simply added on top. Considering that I already paid them £180 for a simple letter far more than enough.

I haven’t been to my flat regularly at all since moving in with my partner and so haven’t ever signed for anything. I find this strange when costs get so astronomically high!

Thank you for your time in reading this. Please let me know if I have omitted anything.

Regards

Leo

Ah Oki will do thx.

I will get all the details together and fill in the questions sheet suggested to me. The property was build in 1860 but was converted to flats in 1990 with 999 year leases.. several years ago I purchased the freehold.

Hi to everyone, this is my first post here but I have been reading this forum for years and up till now have got most of what I needed by reading but this time I could do with a bit of help.

Hi and sorry if this is in the wrong thread, I tried to look where to place it but this seemed the closest I could find.

I own a freehold flat that was originally leasehold but I purchased the freehold several years ago. I pay a service charge to Warwick estates every 6 months

A few years back I moved to live with my partner but still kept the flat and because of this I ended up forgetting to pay the service charge of £665.32 + reserve fund of £53.67.

I was issued with a £90 admins fee and £72 claim fee.

This I also missed because I was absent from the property.

It was then sent to PDC and they slapped on an additional £180 referral fee.

eThis I also missed as it escalated quite quickly and they put on another £250 instruction fee.

At this point I did some reading on CAG and decided to pay Warwick estates directly via bank transfer which is my normal means of paying them. And paid everything apart from the £250 PDC instruction fee as I have no issue with paying my service charge and understand that by not doing so in time had incurred costs.

This was in April 2018.

I heard nothing and thought it done with until today I received a court claim of £2345 for the full amount including what I had already paid.

This now includes an extra £840 PDC law additional costs £115 court fees and £80 solicitors fees issuing claim forms.

I intend to challenge it and say I didn’t receive the last letter they sent me regarding the £250 PDC instruction fee and that I paid everything else to that date.

But I am getting worried now.

I hate these debt companies with their massively inflated costs and am seeking help with how I should proceed and whether I will be able to defend myself.

Regards

Leo